Pats sign Deltha O'Neal, release Spach, sign OL Bender and DeVree to practice squad

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Deltha couldn't beat out the great David Jones as a nickel back on one of the worst defenses in football. His 10 picks came 3 years ago, he followed that up with two years of regression ( 1 pick each of the last two years ) and where he lost his starting CB job and now just lost his nickel CB job on a team with a very bad defense.

If you want this as your starting CB in place of a guy like Wheatley which would serve the team better if he got the reps instead of O'Neal then all the power to you, it's not what I think is in the team's best interest.

If Deltha is coming to play the nickel, then fine........

You've gone from 'this is garbage, he's trash' to 'if Deltha is coming to play the nickel, then fine'. You're back tracking.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

BB and Pioli are looking down every avenue to make this team better, I'm sure. If that means bringing O'Neal in here, then it's worth a shot. I remember reading pieces that said Rodney Harrison was done when we picked him up and how many times did I read that Randy Moss had lost a step and wasn't Randy Moss anymore prior to last season. If O'Neal signs here, he may be bad or he may be good, but it's worth finding out.

Not to mention we've already taken a malcontent who was "on the decline" from Cincinnati and turned him into a Super Bowl champion. I think any player who's been in Cincy for longer than three years tends to lose his drive.

Again, I'm not saying he's going to return to pro-bowl form, but as a depth guy who could compete for a starting job he's more than worth taking a flyer on.

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

IIRC BB really liked him during the past Cincy games, mentioning him by name a few times in his pressers, especially before the 06 game.

 

[JoePats]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

BradytoMoss is probably a bit over the top here, but I think his point is valid. First of all I don't differentiate that much between starter and nickel, as both play a lot and if I recall, our last two playoff losses occured when we couldn't stop teams while we were in our multiple d-back sets. So dismissing a player as a backup because he is going to play nickel is stupid. This is a critical point. Nickel corner is very important. I will concede that no matter how bad our nickel is he should be as good as Randall Gay. But certainly the #2 corner has no chance of being as good as Asante was last year.

The FO overestimated Bryant, and as a result struck out completely in free agency. We're left with Hobbs, a rookie, and a Bengals castoff. I'm sorry that's problematic no matter how you look at it. And if Deltha O'Neal was so good why couldn't he make the Bengals? The Bengals have an awful defense.

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

i'm glad that BB tries to address our corner problem.

 

[JoePats]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

i'm glad that BB tries to address our corner problem.

Obviously but short of Ty Law or a trade you can only do so much at this point. Ie you can't make up for the free agency mistake.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Don't assume anything he did as a Bengal translates here.

Just because you don't stand out playing for a lousy football team with awful ownership, poor locker room chemistry, an entire franchise with no vision, and poor coaching doesn't mean that in a situation with coherent schemes, specific responsibilities, solid philosophies, great coaching, pro-bowl caliber teammates, and an opportunity to win any game against any opponent you can't be a solid contributor.

 

[fgssand]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

This is garbage, he's trash, better off keeping Bryant (as bas as he is). This team, what the freak are they doing ?????????????????????????

Deltha lost his "3rd CB" job to a stud named David Jones, yes a guy named David Jones. What does this tell you and we want this guy to possibly start ?

I would rather see Wheatley start and learn instead of watching a stop gap washed up vet get abused.

You are going to have a stroke dude - will you please let BB/SP run this team - here - DRINK THIS KOOL AID NOW - :eat1:.

5-11
194 lbs
31 years old

I think he can certainly contribute in nickle / back up for NE.

Gotta believe that in Cinn. he didn't have the front seven like we have here.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Deltha couldn't beat out the great David Jones as a nickel back on one of the worst defenses in football. His 10 picks came 3 years ago, he followed that up with two years of regression ( 1 pick each of the last two years ) and where he lost his starting CB job and now just lost his nickel CB job on a team with a very bad defense.

If you want this as your starting CB in place of a guy like Wheatley which would serve the team better if he got the reps instead of O'Neal then all the power to you, it's not what I think is in the team's best interest.

If Deltha is coming to play the nickel, then fine........

It may not be that O'Neal couldn't beat out Jones. It could be that they felt Jones was good at the position and they didn't want to carry O'Neal's salary. O'Neal may have been better at the position, but Jones' youth and salary made him more attractive.

Besides, it looks like the Bengals are trying to get rid of a lot of veterans who still can potentially still produce like O'Neal, Rudi Johnson, and Willie Anderson. The Bengals are notoriously cheap and the base salaries for these players could be too high for Mike Brown to keep around.

 

[Patsbacker]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

BradytoMoss is probably a bit over the top here, but I think his point is valid. First of all I don't differentiate that much between starter and nickel, as both play a lot and if I recall, our last two playoff losses occured when we couldn't stop teams while we were in our multiple d-back sets. So dismissing a player as a backup because he is going to play nickel is stupid. This is a critical point. Nickel corner is very important. I will concede that no matter how bad our nickel is he should be as good as Randall Gay. But certainly the #2 corner has no chance of being as good as Asante was last year.

The FO overestimated Bryant, and as a result struck out completely in free agency. We're left with Hobbs, a rookie, and a Bengals castoff. I'm sorry that's problematic no matter how you look at it. And if Deltha O'Neal was so good why couldn't he make the Bengals? The Bengals have an awful defense.

No offense, but they did also let Willie Anderson, Ahmad Brooks, and Rudi Johnson go too...all of them could turn out to be very serviceable players. Granted, Johnson and Anderson were salary issues so I'm not sure whether O'Neal was part of that...

 

[JoePats]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Don't assume anything he did as a Bengal translates here.

Just because you don't stand out playing for a lousy football team with awful ownership, poor locker room chemistry, an entire franchise with no vision, and poor coaching doesn't mean that in a situation with coherent schemes, specific responsibilities, solid philosophies, great coaching, pro-bowl caliber teammates, and an opportunity to win any game against any opponent you can't be a solid contributor.

Totally disagree. First off he had 9 and 5 INTs on non-playoff teams in Denver. And further, if the guy only plays when things are going well, is he the guy you really want? His production dropped off and he got cut by the Bengals. Don't overthink it.

And before you go all Corey Dillon. Dillon was productive all the way through in Cincinnati with the possible exception of his last year there and played his career at a much higher level. They also didn't release him outright.

My point is not that Deltha O'Neal can't be a good signing. He certainly can. But in regards to expectations I think you have to proceed very carefully with anyone you sign off the scrap heap.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

BradytoMoss is probably a bit over the top here, but I think his point is valid. First of all I don't differentiate that much between starter and nickel, as both play a lot and if I recall, our last two playoff losses occured when we couldn't stop teams while we were in our multiple d-back sets. So dismissing a player as a backup because he is going to play nickel is stupid. This is a critical point. Nickel corner is very important. I will concede that no matter how bad our nickel is he should be as good as Randall Gay. But certainly the #2 corner has no chance of being as good as Asante was last year.

The FO overestimated Bryant, and as a result struck out completely in free agency. We're left with Hobbs, a rookie, and a Bengals castoff. I'm sorry that's problematic no matter how you look at it. And if Deltha O'Neal was so good why couldn't he make the Bengals? The Bengals have an awful defense.

The play of the secondary is directly tied to the play of the front seven. Even Champ Bailey has had a few bad years when his front seven didn't pressure the QB. The Bengals last season were dead last in sacks with 22 (or 25 less than the Pats had). They couldn't pressure the QB at all so O'Neal and the rest of the coverage suffered for it. He probably couldn't make it with the Bengals because the Bengals front seven would have made Deion Sanders in his prime look very average.

As for free agency, who cares? This free agency was pathetic. The Pats rather have gotten the compensation picks for losing guys like Asante than overpay for mediocre free agent talent who were getting top dollar at their position. Besides, Jordan and Aiken could turn into free agent finds. Other than Samuel, who was available in free agency for CB anyway.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

I think you have to look at any move the Bengals make with a grain a of salt. It is a broken franchise right now, and they're obviously trying to go in a new direction (in every position except QB and WR apparently). As others have pointed out, Rudi Johnson, Willie Anderson, etc, were let go, probably because they're trying to groom young, cheap replacements.

And just because a defense is bad, doesn't mean every player on the defense is bad, and certainly doesn't mean that there are no deep positions. After free agency and the draft, I'm sure the Bengals had plenty of competition, and O'Neal's combination of age, ability, and SALARY, likely weighed heavily into this decision.

And not for nothing, but I don't trust the Bengals defensive talent evaluation one bit. I think taking Rivers ahead of Mayo is going to haunt them big time.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Totally disagree. First off he had 9 and 5 INTs on non-playoff teams in Denver. And further, if the guy only plays when things are going well, is he the guy you really want? His production dropped off and he got cut by the Bengals. Don't overthink it.

And before you go all Corey Dillon. Dillon was productive all the way through in Cincinnati with the possible exception of his last year there and played his career at a much higher level. They also didn't release him outright.

My point is not that Deltha O'Neal can't be a good signing. He certainly can. But in regards to expectations I think you have to proceed very carefully with anyone you sign off the scrap heap.

Seriously, how do you think Samuel would have done in the Bengals' secondary? Probably not nearly as well as he did here. I think I saw one time an opposing QB against the Bengals actually eat a sandwich in between the time he snapped the ball and throw it to his receiver. He had that much time. The Bengals have a lot of problems with their front seven getting pressure on QBs.

Not saying O'Neal has anything left, but his performance in Cincy isn't a good judge because when you are expected to cover a receiver forever on every play because the QB can sit in the pocket and wait for his receiver to get open, the CBs are going to look awful.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Not to mention we've already taken a malcontent who was "on the decline" from Cincinnati and turned him into a Super Bowl champion. I think any player who's been in Cincy for longer than three years tends to lose his drive.

Again, I'm not saying he's going to return to pro-bowl form, but as a depth guy who could compete for a starting job he's more than worth taking a flyer on.

Totally agreed. I've always like Delta, but he has regressed. Cincinnati is football purgatory and for corners in particular. They have NO front 7, so CB are screwed, plus Lewis is a total moron when it comes to players. Delta is worth a look, and HAS much more talent/potential then Bryant did.

It may not develop here, but we'd be dumb not to look.

Totally disagree. First off he had 9 and 5 INTs on non-playoff teams in Denver. And further, if the guy only plays when things are going well, is he the guy you really want? His production dropped off and he got cut by the Bengals. Don't overthink it.

I guess we should cut Moss then too. Come' on, everyone deserves a shot to PROVE any regression on a shytty team. BB will determine if it's real of not. I TRUST HIM

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

The play of the secondary is directly tied to the play of the front seven. Even Champ Bailey has had a few bad years when his front seven didn't pressure the QB. The Bengals last season were dead last in sacks with 22 (or 25 less than the Pats had). They couldn't pressure the QB at all so O'Neal and the rest of the coverage suffered for it. He probably couldn't make it with the Bengals because the Bengals front seven would have made Deion Sanders in his prime look very average.

As for free agency, who cares? This free agency was pathetic. The Pats rather have gotten the compensation picks for losing guys like Asante than overpay for mediocre free agent talent who were getting top dollar at their position. Besides, Jordan and Aiken could turn into free agent finds. Other than Samuel, who was available in free agency for CB anyway.

Much as I hate them, just look at a team like Indy. They rarely dip into the free agency pool, instead filling needs through solid drafting, and they have been one of the most consistent franchises of the decade.

Looking at our draft this year, the need for free agents to step in and be major contributors has been drastically reduced.

 

[JoePats]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

The play of the secondary is directly tied to the play of the front seven. Even Champ Bailey has had a few bad years when his front seven didn't pressure the QB. The Bengals last season were dead last in sacks with 22 (or 25 less than the Pats had). They couldn't pressure the QB at all so O'Neal and the rest of the coverage suffered for it. He probably couldn't make it with the Bengals because the Bengals front seven would have made Deion Sanders in his prime look very average.

As for free agency, who cares? This free agency was pathetic. The Pats rather have gotten the compensation picks for losing guys like Asante than overpay for mediocre free agent talent who were getting top dollar at their position. Besides, Jordan and Aiken could turn into free agent finds. Other than Samuel, who was available in free agency for CB anyway.

First part...In 2005, when O'Neal had 10 interceptions, the Bengals were 30th in the league in sacks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/opp.htm

Second part...doesn't matter how good or bad free agency was. The point is the heavy reliance on a rookie and a castoff is scary. The Pats put a lot of eggs into the Bryant basket, which was empty.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

I think you have to proceed very carefully with anyone you sign off the scrap heap.

I agree, but there a lots of examples better than the Dioon one you mentioned.

We picked Juinior Seau off the scrap hear a couple of years ago. Before that, Rodney Harrison.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

Much as I hate them, just look at a team like Indy. They rarely dip into the free agency pool, instead filling needs through solid drafting, and they have been one of the most consistent franchises of the decade.

I agree, if the Patriots ever want to be consistently good, they should model themselves after the Colts.

How many lousy 10 to 16 win seasons will it take until BB and Pioli finally learn how to be consistently good??

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Deltha O'Neil to be a Pat?

First part...In 2005, when O'Neal had 10 interceptions, the Bengals were 30th in the league in sacks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/opp.htm

Second part...doesn't matter how good or bad free agency was. The point is the heavy reliance on a rookie and a castoff is scary. The Pats put a lot of eggs into the Bryant basket, which was empty.

The 2005 team was different because they were pressuring the QB, but not getting sacks for some reason. The Bengals led the league in INTs (you take away O'Neal's INTs that season and they still would have been tied for fifth with 21 INTs). Last year, they were not pressuring the QB and not getting sacks.

As for putting all their eggs in the Bryant basket, I don't agree with that. They drafted two CBs pretty high including Terrance Wheatley in the second round who was probably our best CB for the preseason. The report on Wheatley was that he could be a star and produce pretty quickly, but there are concerns about his wrist. Wheatley has the potential to start right away and be better than anyone who was available in free agency other than Samuel.