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Pats send letter to Mankins, will reduce tender if he doesn't sign by the 15th

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NE39, Jun 10, 2010.

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  1. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

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    If a RFA does not sign the tender by the 15th, the teams can reduce the tender to 110% of his prior year salary. In Mankins case, that means he loses $1.54M on his tender amount.

    The Denver Post has an article about the Broncos sending such a letter to Elvis Dumervil. It mentions the following:

  2. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    :eek::eek::eek:

    You mean that at least 2 other teams are real meanies like BB and cheap bastids like Kraft! Say it ain't so!
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Virtually every team that has a RFA who hasn't signed their tender will do the same thing. It is a bargaining chip to get their player into camp. Why wouldn't teams use it?
  4. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Well,

    It's gonna be an interesting week. :) My money says he signs, but you just never know.
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Now we get to see if the reports of Mankins being "furious" were really true...
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Vincent Jackson or Marcus McNeil actually intend to sign their tender and then sit out because their daily fine for sitting out will still make them more than if they have their tender drop.
  7. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    You know, I was thinking the same thing. After awhile, you just accept all the crap that being tossed out about the Patriots, and don't worry about it. Eventually the truth will play out, and like as not, the talking heads in the studios are way off the mark.
  8. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    reducing by 110% will actually increase the salary. What am I missing?
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mankin's salary was $1.4 million last year which makes his reduced to $1.54 million if they reduced tender (which is 110% of the $1.4 million). His current tender if he signs it is $3.268 million. So he will lose about $1.768 million if the Pats reduce his tender.
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The danger in signing is that the player can then be traded to whoever the team chooses. The player loses leverage. He would still have the leverage of sitting out for the entire preseason and perhaps a game or two.

    In any case, if the situation is that bad with a player, he has no reason to cooperate with the team. The players loses money only if the team decides not to do anything and accept that the player will not be available until after Labor Day, and will be playing the season with a chip on his shoulder. In the end, the player won't lose anything by not signing. The team will cave and signhim to a new one year contract (with no franchise) or trade him to a team that the player accepts, with the player having received permission to negotiate with the new team.

    In any case, the choice for the player is to give up leverage now and play for the RFA amount or to take a stand.

    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The danger im not signing is not getting paid. I dont know how you gain bargaining power by being held to a 1.5 mill salary instead of 3.2mill, and only have the threat of quitting, missing this year, being subject to a lockout next year, and being right back in the same boar whenever you unsig your heels.
    Its really a lose/lose.
    By the way, if its all about money, it wont help the player to sit out camp, miss games and then have a bad season and damage his market value.
  12. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They can't sit out past August 10th or they lose a year of eligibility. The rule is not week 10 this season.
  13. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    For the record and it may be splitting hairs but according to this the team's not sending a letter stating its intent to reduce his salary but sent a letter informing him of their right to do so if he does not sign by said date.

    Anyone have any clue how this actually works. When would the patriots have to decide to lower the tender? Because if there is no time table and no rule that have to they could use it as a sort of olive branch. Dont reduce the salary and let the deadline pass and then you can tell him that he is important enough to you that you didn't do this despite it being well with in their rights.
  14. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Not if they don't sign their tender. That non-CBA rule is for players who sign their tenders. As long as they don't sign, they can sit out. But they cannot sign and sit, because they will still be the team's property next year.
  15. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I believe the old tender is null and void if Mankins doesn't sign by June 15. At that point the Pats can let him be a FA or re-tender him, but the tender has to be at least 110% of his last year's salary. There no longer is a first and third round pick compensation amount because the time for him to get a deal done with another team has passed. He is now basically an ERFA.
  16. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    There must be a date for players who don't sign too. If you are unsigned you can not accrew a year of eligibility that is a no brainer. But it also doesn't make sense for a date to be preseason for unsigned guys as then no journeymen or end of the line guy who has to wait for an injury could accrew a season.
  17. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh OK that makes sense. Now another question as it relates to my olive branch rather than a reduction.

    If they re-tender on the 15th and decide not to take advantage of the rule and leave the tender as is and Mankins still decides not to sign can they wait a week and see if a caves and then lower it or is it a one time window to lower the offer?
  18. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ah thanks for the explanation. The way the Sirius guys were talking I thought it was a built in uncapped rule in the CBA to prevent long hold outs during the uncapped year.

    Either way I would be shocked if they all didn't sign their tenders. Especially after Otogwe.
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    What does that mean? His choices are:

    1. sign now and play 16 games for $3.2 million
    2. sign later (before the start of the season) and
    play 16 games for about $1 million,
    3. sign week 10 and play six games for about $400 thou, or
    4. not sign anything, don't play this year, and hope there is
    a CBA signed so he will be a FA in 2011 (No CBA means
    he will still be a Patriot because dtill he won't have enough
    years to be an UFA (does not gain a year of eligibility)
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 15th is the deadline for a team to extend a qualifying offer, so that is a one time window. I believe if they rescinded it even for a moment thereafter to change the numbers, the player in that instant would become a UFA...in which case the answer would be no. You either extend him at the rate he was originally tendered or 110% of his 2009 salary as a minimum BY JUNE 15th or he is a UFA.
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It just means what it always means - that mg is very pro player/union and anti cheapskate patriots FO so he is always looking out for the little guy and generally predicting if not almost willing him to take a stand...and show the cheap SOB's whose got leverage...
  22. lillestroom

    lillestroom Rookie

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    Did the club need to send an official letter to do this?

    IMHO it creates bad blood between player and franchise.
  23. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't think this was neccessary. Certainly lowering the tender would cause bad blood. I don't think sending the letter warning him does though in fact it likely does the opposite (not to the same extent). To me it is a good will gesture saying we are happy to honor the initial tender but you have to sign it before this deadline or we are with in our rights to lower your salary (and if no harm is done than no foul but the harm is when the contract is actually lowered).

    Tune in the next few days as this hopefully will be resolved at least for this season.
  24. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    I just think Mankins is being so stupid here...

    Didn't he learn anything from Vince Wilfork last year?

    Vince showed up, did his job and got his fat raise.

    Mankins has been in the league, what 3 years? He is a solid player and maybe our most important lineman, but he really hasn't proven himself to be an elite anything, IMO, and far from "irreplaceable".

    Now, because of his Seymour-esque behavior, he stands to lose close to $2m this year if he still hasn't opened his eyes in in 5 days!

    What leverage does he have?

    a. He is not going to get paid as much...

    b. All he can really do is sit out the year which will then make him questionable in the eyes of other teams in terms of his character...

    c. Plus, he would miss a whole year of practice, action, development, etc., and that's assuming the league doesn't strike in 2011, in which case he loses 2 years! There is no guarantee there will be a new deal for 2011, right?

    d. The Pats would find and develop and build around his replacement this season and he would have to fight for a job when and if they brought him back...

    I just don't get this.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  25. Urgent

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    5. Sign a long-term deal with a big bonus, like Vince Wilfork did after receiving the franchise tag, which is what he wants to do.

    As I perceive this, the letter informs the player of the rule, not necessarily their intention to revise his compensation, as others have noted. Actually employing the stick would be an end-game move, creating irrevocable bad relations with that player and probably a lot of other players on the team and probably future potential free agents and so forth.

    Mankins probably feels like he 'deserves' $7mm a year, and is losing $4mm this year due to the uncapped year rule. Then if the Patriots employ this, he would likely feel like they are stealing another $2mm from him. I know I would be pretty unhappy.

    I hope a long-term deal is worked out.

    On the likelihood of signing by that date: sure, the letter is designed to encourage that. However, as an agent, I would figure that lots of teams waive the fines when players hold out and eventually re-negotiate. I would figure that the Patriots are pretty unlikely, if good faith negotiations fail to reach a deal both sides accept, to go nuclear, and would likely pay him the full tender and part amicably.

    I would guess that he is less likely to sign by June 15.
    I would guess that his agent will try to work on a long-term deal, and hope one works out, well past the deadline.
    If not, I would guess that the Patriots end up paying him the full tender, whatever the date, after negotiations play out.
    I would guess that the Patriots are more likely to save more bonus money for Brady, given the restrictions of the 30% rule and the recent deal for Wilfork.

    I'm not certain if the Patriots have to formally re-tender him with a specific amount on June 15 - which could change the dynamics. If that's the case, I would still offer him the $3mm tender. The less-than-$2mm cost is made up for in value of signing Mankins long-term and positive player relationships.

    We'll see.
  26. PATSNUTme

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    #75 Jersey

    I haven't seen the actual letter. But I think it is something that they are obligated to do under the CBA. I also think the wording is "can" not "will" reduce the tender of not signed before 6/15- big difference.
  27. signbabybrady

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    #24 Jersey

    First off Mankins will be going into his fifth or sixth season, has been to a couple a pro bowls and would certainly be considered one of the four or five best guards in the game right now if thats not elite than fine.

    Second I am sure the Way Mankins looks at it is he too showed up and when he supposed to get his fat raise as a FA some new crazy rule was instilled and he gets robbed and is instead a RFA.

    Third you than follow a line of thinking that you are projecting on him and I think you should wait until this plays out to project. Everything you said assumes he doesn't bite the bullet and sign the tender when the deadline comes up. With all the new rules and weird things that have hosed him his only leverage is to hold out as long as reasonable and if he feels risking losing out on another 2 mil is reasonable than that is his perogative. If this thing drags into the season than we can start pointing out your ABCs.
  28. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    :agree: I think that is exactly the case.
  29. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have never called the patriots cheapskates. I have supported the Kraft's in all that they have done since the day they saved the franchise.

    That being said, as you said, I am pro-player and almost always take the players position, except when they are unwilling to play out their contract like Branch. I understood the new team philosophy the day the cut Milloy with less than a week before the beginning of the season. Fans have their choice in these situations. However, in no sense are the patriots cheapskates. They have a business model that works and they stick to it.

    The only reason that Mankins is not a UFA is that the owners screwed the players by making 6th year players RFA's. Mankins should use whatever leverage he has. He may sign; he may not. But what he should NOT do is sign the tender and show up for practice, the preseason and the season as if nothing has happened. And just BTW, the RFA process is a joke, a collusion by owners to prvent the players from being free agents. How many RFA's have switched teams?

    Presuming that he is not injured this season, Mankins will get a big contract next year from someone other than the patriots. Should he sign the tender and play this year under the present forced offer or a reduced on, then he will simply play for someone else in 2011. Why would he even consider playing for the patriots?

    I do think that the Wilfork situation last year was slightly different. Being franchised means that you are being paid very well indeed. Mankins is being paid nowhere near a franchise number. He is a probowler who has completed his contract and has played very well for the patriots. He does deserve to be paid better than what the patriots will pay him.

    But, in the end, business is business. Apparently, the patriots will take advantage of the lack of a CBA and underpay Mankins. That is their right.



  30. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that you don't get it.

    Mankins is NOT a 4th year player. The only reason that he is an RFA is that the team owners put a clause in the last CBA making SIXTH year players RFA's if there was no CBA extension.

    Mankins doesn't need a year of development to get a big 2011 contract from someone. He is a 2 time probowler a one of the best guards in the league. Obviously you don't get this either.

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