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Pats-Ravens: Thoughts After the Replay


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Great post!

Agree completely on every point I had noticed (especially points 12 (Maroney) and 13 (Hanson) and the refereeing -- only the spot seemed questionable to me) and was encouraged by the others (the defensive line and the safeties).

Also: it's right to give credit to the Ravens. They're a good team and made some really good plays. (Flacco, Rice, the strip-sack ...)
 
To sum up your review:

Everything is great expect the punter.
 
To sum up your review:

Everything is great expect the punter.

Not at all. Some other things which come to mind:

- Brady is still not fully in sync
- Light gave up a huge sack that almost turned the game around
- We still don't have a legitimate 3rd WR option
- Our return game is adequate but nothing special
- We had trouble containing Ray Rice

I didn't focus on them in my OP, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.
 
Great comments and assessments- I wish we could have more of those kinds of threads.
 
Not at all. Some other things which come to mind:

- Brady is still not fully in sync
- Light gave up a huge sack that almost turned the game around
- We still don't have a legitimate 3rd WR option
- Our return game is adequate but nothing special
- We had trouble containing Ray Rice

I didn't focus on them in my OP, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Mayo, nice post as usual. I re-watched the game too. My reflex reaction is normally to stick up for Matt Light. One thing I noticed upon rewatching, was that he was beaten more than I realized. Brady fired the ball off before getting sacked, but I guess I didn't originally realize Light was looking like such a turnstile on Sunday. It wasn't even always Suggs. They rotated against him. McGowan and Merriweather did indeed both look really good. Sanders appeared to be out of position a bunch, and took the wrong angle a bunch too. Is that an instinct thing? Not sure. Like many, I was bummed that our punter has such trouble kicking the ball down inside the 20.
 
Nice post... makes me kinda giddy.

Although, yeah... totally agree on Hanson.
 
Awesome post, I especially like:
The Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh and the Giants are all in a different league in terms of mental toughness, even though the Ravens are comparable in terms of overall talent and ability. They remind me a bit of San Diego in that regard.
 
Fine post. Thanks for the reanalysis. I had family guests distracting me during the game, so I missed the fine points.

The Ngata roughing penalty was a joke. The Suggs roughing penalty had intent behind it and deserved to be called. The Wright roughing penalty was also iffy, but it was a helmet hit and the rules are the rules.

Ray Lewis's complaint, however, is that the rules are stupid and that's certainly a legitimate point-of-view. Suggs dive at the knees has no place in the game (and I'd prefer he got a week off for that play because it looked intentional) and Ngata's swing at the head would be hard not to call, but Wright's incidental smack to the facemask shouldn't be a penalty. Of course, with the inevitable whining after the two prior roughing calls, it's hard not to throw a flag on Wright at that point.

Oher did the smart thing. He had to catch the ball in case it was ruled a fumble. You can't take anything for granted. How silly would he have looked if he batted the ball down and then a pat recovered it and they called it a fumble - on further review.

Besides, it's still a penalty, if the ball is not deflected, whether the lineman catches it or knocks it down, and it's only a 5 yard penalty, so there's less harm in grabbing it than letting it go, if it could be a fumble.
 
Saw last night's game again.

I've been critical of Sanders and his play in the secondary and after watching last nights game and focusing on him, I was wrong. He's not bad, he's awful.

On the bright side, McGowan's a solid player and Merriweather's a stud.
 
9. The only call where we got lucky was the fake field goal. It was clearly a catch. And I can understand the refs ruling that we made the 1st down - it's a judgment call, and NFL refs have always seemed pretty liberal in where they spot the ball when an offensive player reaches out with the ball. But it was a generous spot, and could easily have gone against us.

Recognize that the rule for spotting balls is that it is the location of the ball when the last part of the body moves from in bounds to out of bounds (except when recognizing whether it is a TD or not). If you're aware of the rule, then the replay shows that he clearly had first down yardage; it wasn't that close.

13. Hanson really hurt us in that game. Pinning the opponent deep could have made a huge difference, and he blew it at least twice. For a guy without a particularly big leg, he's got to be able to pin the ball inside the 20.

In my book, most of the blame goes to BB. A very poor choice to punt in that situation as a first down (chances around 50% of getting a first down) is much more valuable than 20-35 yards of field position. Hanson's performance was not unexpected as he has not proven to be adept at keeping it out of the endzone on these shorter kicks.
 
Saw last night's game again.

I've been critical of Sanders and his play in the secondary and after watching last nights game and focusing on him, I was wrong. He's not bad, he's awful.
I was just looking at Sanders' contract with us suddenly deep at Safety.

From Miguel's page :

"April 5, 2009 update The Boston Globe's Mike Reiss blogged today that "Sanders's three-year contract includes base salaries of $620,000 (2009), $2.3 million (2010) and $2.8 million (2011). He receives a signing bonus of $1.8 million, and a roster bonus of $1.2 million that was paid in mid-March. The deal also includes workout bonuses from $80,000-$100,000, depending on the year."

He only has $1.2M of prorated signing bonus left starting next year and $2.3M of salary so we could save $1M+ by releasing him. So much of that contract was in salary that his re-signing seems almost like an insurance policy that may not be needed with the emergence of McGowan and the drafting of Chung.
 
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The Ngata roughing penalty was a joke. The Suggs roughing penalty had intent behind it and deserved to be called. The Wright roughing penalty was also iffy, but it was a helmet hit and the rules are the rules.

One of the more iffy penalties that's largely been ignored is the PI call against the Ravens on the pass to Welker. That could have really gone either way, but it didn't impact the play. That was just a bad, bad throw. I really thought they could have let that one go. Obviously, though, being that I'm a Pats fan I really don't care that they called it. :D

if the Ngata call was a joke then explain how TB had his helmit half off his head when he was on the ground? not the most flagerant roughing call, and i do think he was trying to go for the ball, but when you follow thru. and hit the helmit its a flag, just like when Wright tried to grab Flacco's sholder pad, his hand slipped and hit Flacco's faskmask - its a flag . . .
 
if the Ngata call was a joke then explain how TB had his helmit half off his head when he was on the ground? not the most flagerant roughing call, and i do think he was trying to go for the ball, but when you follow thru. and hit the helmit its a flag ...

I noticed the same thing about TB's helmet, his facemask was up around his eyes when he was laying on the turf after that play. It's surprising how much force even a glancing swipe from a 300lb DE can have.
 
Since you hit on all my major takeaways from the game, I'll just add my $0.02:

1. I think both roughing penalties against the Ravens have to be called. Neither seemed flagrant, dirty or with intent to harm to me. In part, both were caused by the terrific speed at which the game was played. But under NFL rules, a forearm to the face/head of the QB has to be called every time. And the Suggs play was clearly at Brady's legs, the kind of play that could very easily have resulted in an injury, intentional or not. I certainly did not see any flagrant difference in the way the refs called the game between the two teams.

Agree and the people who suggest otherwise need to think about what the NFL would be like without the top QBs playing. Imagine Cleveland playing Tampa being the only game on TV every week. Nobody would watch and no eyeballs translates into fewer digits on Ray Ray's paycheck.

And the lack of common sense just kills me. Brady gets whacked in the knee and misses the season. The league thinks this is a bad thing so creates a rule to keep players off the knees of QBs. If you hit a QB in the knee and don't expect a penalty, you are foolish. If you hit Brady in the knee and don't expect a penalty, you are a moron.

2. I was impressed again by the overall speed and intensity on both sides. Two very good teams. If the Ravens just shut up and played they'd be a lot better. Flacco and Rice are the real deal.

Agree, but Flacco needs to improve his decision making a bit before the playoffs. I lost count of how many of his passes ended up deflected into the air. Any one of them getting picked off probably turns the game into a comfortable Pats win. From the Pats perspective, I'm spending some more time on tip drills.

3. The Pats did a fabulous job of adjusting after Derrick Mason shredded them on the first drive.

We comment all the time that the Pats are solid at taking away certain players from the offense (TO/Evans, Washington, Gonzalez), but that leaves other players with less attention. I think that was the case with Mason in the first quarter.

4. D*mn Meriweather and McGowan are good. They are all over the place, with a nose for the ball, and hit like a ton of bricks. Meriweather clearly outplayed Ed Reed in that game.

Totally agree on M&M. As for Reed, making him invisible for this game was an overlooked part of the gameplan. Reed was never in position to make a play all game, which is a great combination of playcalling by coaches and decision making by Brady. The only play I can remember him even being close was the long pass to Watson down the middle. Everything else was Reed cleaning up after a solid gain. He is the most dangerous defensive player in the NFL and he was absolutely a non-factor. Great job all the way around.

5. I'm not a huge James Sanders fan and he certainly didn't shine like McGowan and Meriweather, but I really can't blame him for missing the tackle on Ray Rice. Rice was moving like a bat out of h*ll, and I don't know anyone that makes that tackle on him at that angle. Rice is a beast.

I don't blame Sanders but that play (and others) didn't make me feel better about his attack angles on defense. He still has enough "Mr. Magoo" moments to make me scared.

6. Butler looks like the real deal. He does not look at all like a rookie CB. Butler and Bodden will be one of the top CB tandems in the league by the end of the year at this rate. The blanket coverage and big hitting by the secondary at the end of each half was the difference in the game.

7. The DL and overall pressure looked the best it has all year.

I believe these two points are absolutely related. As the backs have show they can handle receivers without soft zones and linebacker help, the coaches are able to commit 5 or even 6 players to the pass rush. McGowan is especially useful in that he can play pseudo-linebacker and free up Guyton to rush...or even bring pressure himself. I'm most interested in seeing what they draw up against the Colts and Saints. It looks like the Pats finally have the right mix of DBs to scheme a little more against the pass-happy teams in the league and bring different pressure packages.

8. Both touchdowns scored by opposing defenses against our offense so far this season came on outstanding plays by the other team. But giving up those kind of scores is devastating. Just devastating. The game almost turned around on the Suggs play.

Gotta call out Light on both of these. Horrific technique on both plays. Can't leave a 6'5" DE standing in direct line of a screen pass. Can't get snookered inside on a speed rusher leaving a direct line to Brady's blind side. Light can (and better) clean this up before it does not only costs a game but ends a playoff run.

9. The only call where we got lucky was the fake field goal. It was clearly a catch. And I can understand the refs ruling that we made the 1st down - it's a judgment call, and NFL refs have always seemed pretty liberal in where they spot the ball when an offensive player reaches out with the ball. But it was a generous spot, and could easily have gone against us.

The officials blew this one all to hell. Did they even spot the ball on that play? I never saw them mark the out of bounds spot before dealing with the penalty. The officials also don't help themselves by being completely inconsistent about marking players when they go out of bounds. They are supposed to mark the ball, not the point where the player touched out of bounds. Granted it is much easier to see/mark where their body hits (and usually it isn't enough of a difference to matter), but it confuses the TV watching public on where a ball should be spotted.

10. No way did Willis McGahee make it on 4th and 1. His momentum was stopped, his knee was down, and then he tried to reach the ball forward to get the spot.

The fact that the Ravens even brought this up eliminates any credibility they might have had. Wasn't even close.

11. Having Brady roll out to his right on the last Pats offensive play was a bad call. He's not a good QB throwing on the run, especially not now. Dumb call. It was not a controlled throw.

I called this out in another thread. I'm not one to criticize playcalling since there are a billion factors I couldn't possibly know about. But this may have been the single worst call I have ever seen. They had the 2 perfect players for the situation (Brady and Welker) but put them in a position to do the singular thing they don't do particularly well...Brady to throw on the run and Welker on a straight path to the sideline. I'm flushing this memory and I hope that page of the playbook gets the same treatment.

12. LoMo didn't look bad to me. He was fabulous on the catch and run, and he was running hard with minimal dancing on the carries that I saw. In most cases there just weren't yards to be had against a top run defense. I actually think he could have a big game against Denver.

The people who understand what you are saying don't need convincing. The people who need convincing will never understand what you are saying.

13. Hanson really hurt us in that game. Pinning the opponent deep could have made a huge difference, and he blew it at least twice. For a guy without a particularly big leg, he's got to be able to pin the ball inside the 20.

KICK TO THE SIDELINES!!!! How freakin' hard is that to do??? The coverage team has less area to cover if you kick it high, the sidelines take care of it if you kick it too long and you remove the possibility of a fair catch outside the 10. Much less of a chance to put it in the end zone. The only downside is that there is no chance of a muff and it is harder to pin them back by rolling it down to the 1. I'll take backing up a team consistently at the 10 versus putting them consistently at the 15-20 in hopes of getting one downed at the goal line.
 
Awesome thread, folks. Lots of excellent observations & analysis. I didn't have the time to re-watch on the NFLN, but most of what I would've said has already been said. A couple of thoughts:

I'm glad that more of you are coming around to the sad reality that lil' Jimmy Sanders is just a JAG. He has always taken poor angles, and far too often bounces off ball-carriers. I still remember Dallas Clark tip-toeing the sideline on Indy's game-winning drive last season, and lil' Jimmy coudn't even knock him OOB...pathetic. He's Bill's worst FA signing this year, besides Galloway. DWToys would be proud of y'all.

Chris Hanson sux, too, but I also blame his ST coaches for not teaching him the lost art of hitting the Coffin Corner. I am sick to effin death of seeing punts, kicked from inside mid-field, landing in the EZ in the middle of the effin field. Unless it's something like 4th/13 (sound familiar?), then we are better-served going for the 1st down instead of taking from the opponent a measly 25 yards of field position.

The good news about Shawn Springs: he's healthy enough to remain on the game-day 45; the bad news: sometimes, if his man needs 2 yards, he lets him have 3. Case in point - first half, first play after the 2-min warning, 3rd/2. Swing pass to Rice, met at the LOS by Springs. Rice has his arms up, is off-balance, and is primed for a big hit & loss of yardage (think Randall Gay v. Marcus Pollard). Instead, Springs doesn't square up, doesn't use his shoulder, and Rice squirms his way for the 1st down.

One of our "injury-prone, try-hard stiffs", the deteriorating Matt Light, is either going to cost us a PO game, or Brady's health, or both, poss. at the same time. He simply cannot be our starting LT by this time next season. SeaBass better be worth Bill's passing on Will Beatty, because RT-only types shouldn't be drafted in the 2nd round when there is a more urgent need to upgrade LT.

Speaking of our crappy OL, our running game generally looked exactly that: crappy. It continues to be under-planned, under-manned, and poorly-executed, for which John McKay would be in favor. Twice in the 4th quarter, they could've killed time, gained yards, and maybe scored more points, but twice they failed. They will win zero PO games if this inefficiency continues.

Otherwise, great game!
 
Nice to see you enjoying the win, captain. :D

Metaphors said:
mayoclinic said:
12. LoMo didn't look bad to me. He was fabulous on the catch and run, and he was running hard with minimal dancing on the carries that I saw. In most cases there just weren't yards to be had against a top run defense. I actually think he could have a big game against Denver.

The people who understand what you are saying don't need convincing. The people who need convincing will never understand what you are saying.

I know we're not allowed to put other posters' quotes in our sigs, but I wish that a mod would take this and post it in any and all Maroney threads from now on.
 
Thanks for the comments. Good points all.

Since you hit on all my major takeaways from the game, I'll just add my $0.02:

Agree and the people who suggest otherwise need to think about what the NFL would be like without the top QBs playing. Imagine Cleveland playing Tampa being the only game on TV every week. Nobody would watch and no eyeballs translates into fewer digits on Ray Ray's paycheck.

And the lack of common sense just kills me. Brady gets whacked in the knee and misses the season. The league thinks this is a bad thing so creates a rule to keep players off the knees of QBs. If you hit a QB in the knee and don't expect a penalty, you are foolish. If you hit Brady in the knee and don't expect a penalty, you are a moron.

I mentioned the impact on the NFL in another thread. People watch to see Brady, Manning, Rivers and Brees make the spectacular plays. That's what drives the ratings and $$$. Losing Brady for the season hurt the NFL, not just the Pats. People don't want to see the Pats with Brian Hoyer play the Colts with Jim Sorgi.

We comment all the time that the Pats are solid at taking away certain players from the offense (TO/Evans, Washington, Gonzalez), but that leaves other players with less attention. I think that was the case with Mason in the first quarter.

I had thought before the game that we would allow the CBs to cover the Baltimore WRs one on one, but obviously that didn't work. Mason ended up doing pretty much what I thought he would for the game, but almost all of it came on that first drive. Good adjustment.

Totally agree on M&M. As for Reed, making him invisible for this game was an overlooked part of the gameplan. Reed was never in position to make a play all game, which is a great combination of playcalling by coaches and decision making by Brady. The only play I can remember him even being close was the long pass to Watson down the middle. Everything else was Reed cleaning up after a solid gain. He is the most dangerous defensive player in the NFL and he was absolutely a non-factor. Great job all the way around.[/QUOTE

On the Brady to Moss TD Ed Reed blitzed up the middle and nearly got TB. That was the closest I saw him get to making a big play. Instead it was a TD for us.

I believe these two points are absolutely related. As the backs have show they can handle receivers without soft zones and linebacker help, the coaches are able to commit 5 or even 6 players to the pass rush. McGowan is especially useful in that he can play pseudo-linebacker and free up Guyton to rush...or even bring pressure himself. I'm most interested in seeing what they draw up against the Colts and Saints. It looks like the Pats finally have the right mix of DBs to scheme a little more against the pass-happy teams in the league and bring different pressure packages.

I think the Pats are just beginning to realize all the things they can do with their new toys. I expect to see a few new wrinkles this week against Denver.

Gotta call out Light on both of these. Horrific technique on both plays. Can't leave a 6'5" DE standing in direct line of a screen pass. Can't get snookered inside on a speed rusher leaving a direct line to Brady's blind side. Light can (and better) clean this up before it does not only costs a game but ends a playoff run.

We'll see if things are any better against Dumervil this week and Kyle Vanden Bosch after that. But I agree, it's a bit scary.

I called this out in another thread. I'm not one to criticize playcalling since there are a billion factors I couldn't possibly know about. But this may have been the single worst call I have ever seen. They had the 2 perfect players for the situation (Brady and Welker) but put them in a position to do the singular thing they don't do particularly well...Brady to throw on the run and Welker on a straight path to the sideline. I'm flushing this memory and I hope that page of the playbook gets the same treatment.

I would have been happy with:

1. Brady to Welker over the middle on a quick slant.
2. Brady to a TE over the middle.
3. A screen pass.
4. A draw to Kevin Faulk.
5. Going long to Moss or Watson. Might have caught the Ravens by surprise and ended the game.

All of those would have been reasonable options, whether they succeeded or not.

In retrospect, I don't mind the runs on the first 2 plays of the drive as much as the 3rd down pass. Not that I minded a pass, just that particular play, which seemed designed to fail.
 
I know we're not allowed to put other posters' quotes in our sigs, but I wish that a mod would take this and post it in any and all Maroney threads from now on.

It was a great line. I wish I'd thought of it.
 
Nice job.

1. I think both roughing penalties against the Ravens have to be called. Neither seemed flagrant, dirty or with intent to harm to me. In part, both were caused by the terrific speed at which the game was played. But under NFL rules, a forearm to the face/head of the QB has to be called every time. And the Suggs play was clearly at Brady's legs, the kind of play that could very easily have resulted in an injury, intentional or not. I certainly did not see any flagrant difference in the way the refs called the game between the two teams.

You are correct in your assessment on the 2 calls to the head. IMHO both could have been ignored, but.... HOWEVER I think Suggs had EVERY intention of hitting Brady low. That is what has been missing in this issue. He CLEARLY was going for Brady's knee, with the INTENT to injure him. The fact he missed is pure luck. But his claim of innocence is like me defending myself from an attempted murder charge, and claiming "...but I missed"

2. I was impressed again by the overall speed and intensity on both sides. Two very good teams. If the Ravens just shut up and played they'd be a lot better. Flacco and Rice are the real deal.

Amen to that, brother

4. D*mn Meriweather and McGowan are good. They are all over the place, with a nose for the ball, and hit like a ton of bricks. Meriweather clearly outplayed Ed Reed in that game.

I worry about McGowan. In the past, his reckless play has been the reason he doesn't ever last the entire season, but for now, while he is here, he's been nothing short of a revelation.

5. I'm not a huge James Sanders fan and he certainly didn't shine like McGowan and Meriweather, but I really can't blame him for missing the tackle on Ray Rice. Rice was moving like a bat out of h*ll, and I don't know anyone that makes that tackle on him at that angle. Rice is a beast.

Some people here forget that they are paying the other guys to make plays too. That draw was a prime example of the RIGHT play, versus the WRONG defense. It happens. By the time Rice met Sanders he was at full speed and in the open field. In those situations 99 times out of a hundred the RB wins.

6. Butler looks like the real deal. He does not look at all like a rookie CB. Butler and Bodden will be one of the top CB tandems in the league by the end of the year at this rate. The blanket coverage and big hitting by the secondary at the end of each half was the difference in the game.

Butler is clearly a playmaker and is being perfectly brought along. He is getting significant reps but I believe is put out there with specific responsibilities, that allows his athletic talents to show...in the meantime he avoids being thrown to the lions. This kid will be a starter at CB soon enough.

7. The DL and overall pressure looked the best it has all year.
Still waiting for some consistent rush from Burgess. OTOH, the pressure from the middle guys, has been great

9. The only call where we got lucky was the fake field goal. It was clearly a catch. And I can understand the refs ruling that we made the 1st down - it's a judgment call, and NFL refs have always seemed pretty liberal in where they spot the ball when an offensive player reaches out with the ball. But it was a generous spot, and could easily have gone against us.

All what you said is true, but they also COULD have called it man in motion before the snap, and it would have negated the play entirely....as well as the contraversy

10. No way did Willis McGahee make it on 4th and 1. His momentum was stopped, his knee was down, and then he tried to reach the ball forward to get the spot.

I thought he got a very generous spot to get it THAT close.

12. LoMo didn't look bad to me. He was fabulous on the catch and run, and he was running hard with minimal dancing on the carries that I saw. In most cases there just weren't yards to be had against a top run defense. I actually think he could have a big game against Denver.

I agree wholeheartedly. He ran hard that game, but made a horrible decision on the play everyone focuses on. He made a bad decision, just like Brady did when he missed Welker for that pass, etc, etc Its unfair to harp on a single play, as an exemplar for an entire season

I think the Ravens are a fabulous team. But I doubt they make it to the elite level if they continue to whine and make excuses every time things don't go their way. They need to become mentally tougher. The Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh and the Giants are all in a different league in terms of mental toughness, even though the Ravens are comparable in terms of overall talent and ability. They remind me a bit of San Diego in that regard.

I think you are right on the money here, and this comment is the main reason I posted a response. I can understanding complaining about a call, but the Ravens constantly DWELL on it...to the point where it takes away their focus at key times. While the rest of the league might forget, the Pats have been the victims of as many BAD calls as good ones, yet fans forget the bad ones because the Pats don't make a big deal of them. Bad call will happen, you just have to play through. The Ravens aren't THERE yet.
 
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I think you are right on the money here, and this comment is the main reason I posted a response. I can understanding complaining about a call, but the Ravens constantly DWELL on it...to the point where it takes away their focus at key times. While the rest of the league might forget, the Pats have been the victims of as many BAD calls as good ones, yet fans forget the bad ones because the Pats don't make a big deal of them. Bad call will happen, you just have to play through. The Ravens aren't THERE yet.

In almost every sport, the physical only takes you so far. It's the mental that separates the champions from the near-champions. Interestingly, Indy developed that focus, from a team that was pretty much a whiner in 2003-2004 to a team that blocks out the injuries and distractions and just finds ways to win games. Maybe the Ravens will find that. Maybe they will be like SD and fall apart.

As I said in another thread, right now the Ravens are too focused on whining to be focused on winning.
 
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