Pats/Ravens Expert picks

[ausbacker]

Hey, guys. Ravens fan.

I'm not here to talk trash, I'm really not...

But the thing that stands out most to me is that you're wrong about your Wide Receivers being better than ours.

Fun fact: 1 team in the history of the NFL has had 3 WRs with 500+ receptions, and it's Boldin, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh on this year's Ravens.

Welker is a great WR. I think he could be as good as any one of those three, but anything after that doesn't compare. I'm not even sure you'd have the better corps. with Randy Moss. Without him? That's crazy...

Good luck on Sunday!

The Ravens are a paper team.

Fact 1. The Patriots have scored nearly 40 more points in 1 less game than the Ravens.
Fact 2. The Patriots Offense is better than the Ravens Offense in terms of production and performance in 2010.

 

[PatsFan24]

I would bet on the Patriots. At home after a bye and they have something to prove, plus TB is on a serious mission this year, I wouldn't want to get in his way.

 

[Kontradiction]

Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa left after the 01 season, and Ngata was drafted in 06. So I'll assume you're talking about the 4 seasons from 02 through 05. Here's a recap:

- Lost for most of the 2002 and 2005 seasons due to injuries (played in 6 and 5 games respectively).

- 2004 AP 1st team All Pro and Pro Bowl selection

- 2003 NFL Defensive Player of the Year

In sum, 42 total games played, 410 tackles (300 solo), 9 INTs

I haven't come in here and bashed Ray's career. There is no doubt whatsoever that he's been one of the better linebackers... EVER, in the NFL. However, the conversation wasn't originally about which player has had the most successful career so far. It was about who is better today. I believe Mayo is the more complete ILB between the two at this point in their respective careers..

It's kinda hard to remember something that didn't actually happen.

Actually that's simply not the case. Lewis did complain, publicly, about having insufficient personnel along the D-Line. As a Ravens fan, I'm shocked that you don't remember this. His direct quote: "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me". After that, the Ravens went out and drafted Haloti Ngata.

ETA: You're also wrong about this: The Ravens play a 2-gap, not a 1-gap:


"The Ravens played predominantly a "2 gap" concept with their defensive line...."

Ravens' Ray Lewis is a consummate pro football player - NFL - Sporting News

"Lining up against the center in the two-gap scheme the Ravens employ..."

Virtual Vensanity: Cody and Gregg: Mountains in the middle - Baltimore Ravens, Orioles, Terps blog by Matt Vensel - baltimoresun.com

If you're going to post quotes to try to debunk my argument, it would be helpful to post the entire quote...

The Ravens played predominantly a "2 gap" concept with their defensive line. In that approach, the down linemen essentially engage the offensive linemen in front of them, preventing them from working up to the linebackers. Lewis thrived in that system. It allowed him the freedom to use his incredible instincts to run to the football.

So, for one, any good defensive coordinator is going to apply both one-gap and two-gap discipline to his defenses depending on the situation, game, or opponent they're playing against. For another, all the articles that you posted told me is that only the Ravens defensive lineman were lining up in a two-gap on a consistent basis. This should be obvious to you, considering the Ravens strength at linebacker. A beefy D-Line playing two-gap effectively swallows up the blockers and allows the linebackers (playing in a one-gap) free reign to roam around and make plays. In this defense, Mayo doesn't see nearly as much of the "freedom" that this article credited Lewis with having.

 

[jmt57]

I'm going to hijack this thread and get back to the original topic for just a moment, since I don't know where else to put this and it doesn't warrant it's own thread.



Fox Sports is split 3-3 on this game.
Alex Marvez, John Czarnecki, and Peter Schrager are going with the Pats.
Jay Glazer, Adam Schein, and Adam Caplan think the Ravens will win.
Weekly expert NFL picks - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN



NFL Week 6 picks: Playoff rematches - NFL - Sporting News
Vinnie Iyer of Sporting News says "The odds against the Pats winning this playoff rematch aren't as long as Brady's hair. But the Ravens are just better all-around, thanks to a deep running game and swarming defense. Ravens 23, Patriots 20."



Insiders' Picks - Showtime Sports
From Showtime's Inside The NFL, Cris Collinsworth goes with the Pats and Warren Sapp picks the Ravens - just the opposite of what I would have guessed they would do - while Phil Simms abstains.



Just for the record, here's espn's picks: NFL Picks and Predictions for Week 6 - National Football League - ESPN
Ravens: Allen, Golic, Hoge, Jaworski, Mortensen, Schlereth, 'Pick'em'
Pats: Schefter, Wickersham, Accuscore (22.3-21.7, 52%-47%)

Sunday Countdown: Your weekly NFL guide - ESPN
Ravens: Mike Ditka and Cris Carter
Pats: Keyshawn Johnson and Tom Jackson

Video Games - EA Sports Simulations - ESPN
Madden sim: Ravens 33, Pats 23
(In another Madden sim, they have Favre throwing 3 picks Sunday)



NFL Week 6 predictions by Peter King - Peter King - SI.com
Peter King: "Lost in the kerfuffle of the rout of the Dolphins and the Randy Moss trade and the very serious discussion of Tom Brady's hair: New England's defense isn't fixed, and I don't see the Patriots either covering Anquan Boldin or stopping Ray Rice. Ravens 31, Patriots 23"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/kerry_byrne/10/15/gotw.ravens.patriots/index.html?
Kerry Byrne:Baltimore's struggling offense will find a cushy reception from New England's poor defense (24.0 PPG, 26th).

But otherwise, the Patriots appear to matchup well this time around against Baltimore: New England has the best Offensive Hogs in the business at a time when Baltimore's Defensive Hogs have played below their usual standards.

New England rarely makes mistakes in the passing game (five sacks, two INT) at a time when the Baltimore defense is having trouble forcing mistakes in the passing game (five sacks, one INT).

But most importantly, the Patriots have been making big plays on defense in special teams. It's helped make New England the highest-scoring team in football (32.8 PPG), as well as the most efficient scoring machine in football, too (No. 1 on our Scoreability Index).

New England will ride one of those big plays to a narrow victory.
New England 21, Baltimore 20



WalterFootball.com: NFL Picks Against the Spread - Week 6, 2010
"Overrated NFL Teams:
A good handicapper is always aware of which teams are overrated and underrated by the public. I'll attempt to list the teams I think are the most overrated and underrated each week. Keep in mind that even if a team is listed here, that doesn't mean that I think lowly of them; they are simply overrated in Vegas' eyes. These are the squads that Vegas can boost the spread on.

New England Patriots - This Patriots defense has been awful this year, and now the offense loses firepower in the wake of the Randy Moss trade. New England isn't good anymore, yet this point spread says that they and Baltimore are equals.

NEW ENGLAND OFFENSE: It's hard to believe that Randy Moss was shipped off that quickly. Deion Branch has been brought in to replace him. Branch is injury-prone and mediocre, but he's familiar with the offense and will have an entire week of practice with Tom Brady, so there won't be any sort of confusion like the Vikings had with Moss on Monday night.

Having said that, Brady has a daunting task ahead of him. Like the Broncos last week, the Patriots' one-dimensional attack will make it difficult for them to sustain drives.

The Ravens are third against the pass, having limited all but one opponent (Kyle Orton in garbage time) to 167 passing yards or fewer. Without Moss as a big-play threat, New England's offense could be bogged down.

BALTIMORE OFFENSE: We all saw what the Ravens did to the Patriots in the playoffs back in January. Ray Rice ran all over them, allowing a hobbled Joe Flacco to do virtually nothing.

History will likely repeat itself. Missing Ty Warren and Richard Seymour, the Patriots are 25th against the rush, surrendering 4.7 yards per carry. Ray Rice, who is finally getting goal-line work, seems poised for a monster game.

Unlike last January, Flacco is healthy and playing really well. The Patriots are also 25th versus the pass; each opponent they've faced has thrown for at least 220 yards, including Ryan Fitzpatrick. If New England couldn't contain Fitzpatrick, how are they going to deal with these Ravens?

RECAP: This Patriots defense has been awful this year, and now the offense loses firepower in the wake of the Randy Moss trade. New England isn't good anymore, yet this point spread says that they and Baltimore are equals. I don't agree with that.

The one edge the Patriots have is that Bill Belichick has had two weeks to prepare for the Ravens. The last time Belichick has lost coming off a bye was in 2002. However, looking closely at the opponents he's battled with a week off since, you'll see that none of them were very good:

2003 - Dallas (10-6; led by Quincy Carter, team sucked)
2004 - Buffalo (9-7; was 0-2 in that matchup, began the year 0-4)
2005 - Buffalo (5-11; only a five-point victory)
2006 - Buffalo (7-9; what's with the Bills always being scheduled after New England's bye?)
2007 - Buffalo (7-9; poor Bills)
2008 - San Francisco (7-9)
2009 - Miami (7-9; didn't cover an 11-point spread)

See what I mean? And unlike in years past, Belichick doesn't have a good team. I don't think he has the horses to beat the high-powered Ravens - even with a week off.

After all that I figured Walter would take Baltimore in a rout; instead his prediction is the Ravens 27, Pats 24.

 

[TB=TD]

Ray Lewis>>>>>>Mayo

 

[SVN]

I haven't come in here and bashed Ray's career. There is no doubt whatsoever that he's been one of the better linebackers... EVER, in the NFL. However, the conversation wasn't originally about which player has had the most successful career so far. It was about who is better today. I believe Mayo is the more complete ILB between the two at this point in their respective careers..



Actually that's simply not the case. Lewis did complain, publicly, about having insufficient personnel along the D-Line. As a Ravens fan, I'm shocked that you don't remember this. His direct quote: "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me". After that, the Ravens went out and drafted Haloti Ngata. [.b]



If you're going to post quotes to try to debunk my argument, it would be helpful to post the entire quote...

The Ravens played predominantly a "2 gap" concept with their defensive line. In that approach, the down linemen essentially engage the offensive linemen in front of them, preventing them from working up to the linebackers. Lewis thrived in that system. It allowed him the freedom to use his incredible instincts to run to the football.

So, for one, any good defensive coordinator is going to apply both one-gap and two-gap discipline to his defenses depending on the situation, game, or opponent they're playing against. For another, all the articles that you posted told me is that only the Ravens defensive lineman were lining up in a two-gap on a consistent basis. This should be obvious to you, considering the Ravens strength at linebacker. A beefy D-Line playing two-gap effectively swallows up the blockers and allows the linebackers (playing in a one-gap) free reign to roam around and make plays. In this defense, Mayo doesn't see nearly as much of the "freedom" that this article credited Lewis with having.

"Actually that's simply not the case. Lewis did complain, publicly, about having insufficient personnel along the D-Line. As a Ravens fan, I'm shocked that you don't remember this. His direct quote: "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me". After that, the Ravens went out and drafted Haloti Ngata."
i remember this too clearly. he was complaining that he had to take on blockers

here is a close reference to that
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/22/on-haynesworth-ray-lewis-flirts-with-hypocrisy/

 

[RyanP421]

Now I know you are having a laugh. If you said Mason I might have given it some thought.

There was no need to bring up Mason because the receivers I mentioned were better than their respective opponent. Mason could be compared to Branch and the Ravens would win that match up as well.

Everything you've been saying is wrong.

If you are going to compare the top 2 WRs on each team, Housh doesnt belong in the conversation. Mason is above Housh on the depth chart and has a bigger role.

Houshmandzadeh sucks by the way. His 7 catches this year are awesome.

And Heap over Hernandez and Gronk...Are you drunk? Just because someone has more time in the NFL does NOT mean they are the better player CURRENTLY. Has Heap had a better career? Absolutely. Is he better right now? Nope.

I feel like you base your opinion on players depending on their rankings that that idiot Donny Moore gives them in Madden 11. What a terrible way to form an opinion on football...

And McCourty...Your opinion on him is so off base and ******ed, that it's hard to even respond to..........



.......Man, I with that when people's opinions are so lost and illogical like that, they would be kept to themselves..

Ravens better than Patriots at every position but QB? I'm not saying the Patriots are the better team right now, but that comment is ignorant at best.

Try learning some stuff about football.

 

[RyanP421]

Hey, guys. Ravens fan.

I'm not here to talk trash, I'm really not...

But the thing that stands out most to me is that you're wrong about your Wide Receivers being better than ours.

Fun fact: 1 team in the history of the NFL has had 3 WRs with 500+ receptions, and it's Boldin, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh on this year's Ravens.

Welker is a great WR. I think he could be as good as any one of those three, but anything after that doesn't compare. I'm not even sure you'd have the better corps. with Randy Moss. Without him? That's crazy...

Good luck on Sunday!

These types of statements are so dumb it makes me want to throw up..

So because someone has more receptions in their career, it makes them a better WR CURRENTLY?

REALLY? So if the Patriots brought Troy Brown and Jerry Rice out of retirement so that they could say they have "this many guys with this many career receptions" than that automatically makes them a better WR corps?

Give. Me. A. Break.

Boldin is terrific and Mason is good too. Other than that? The rest of the Ravens WR on the active roster right now simply aren't very good. Houshmandzadeh has been one of the most overrated WRs in the league for a while now. Not so much now as inteligent people are catching on to the fact that he just isn't that good.


Give me the Patriots WR corps as a whole over the Ravens any day of the week. There's a reason the Patriots have a much more productive offense than the Ravens do.


I can't stop laughing about the lack of logic in this post..........The fact that you said Welker COULD be as good as Houshmandzadeh or Mason is amazing on it's own.

Some advice: Don't base your opinion on a player's CURRENT talent based on the past. It doesn't work. The past is called the PAST for a reason.

It's like saying Jamie Moyer is a better pitcher right now than Jon Lester because he has more career wins. Just stupid.

 

[JMarr]

A lot of people are just tripping and seem to still be shellshocked [or in the media's case, awestruck] by what the Ravens did to us back in January--which by NFL standards is ancient history.

The Ravens front seven is solid, they have Ray Rice, and....that is it. Flacco sucks. Pats are playing at home, BB with a bye week to prepare for the birds...Anyone picking the Ravens to roll over us like they did last time is delusional.

 

[RyanP421]

A lot of people are just tripping and seem to still be shellshocked [or in the media's case, awestruck] by what the Ravens did to us back in January--which by NFL standards is ancient history.

The Ravens front seven is solid, they have Ray Rice, and....that is it. Flacco sucks. Pats are playing at home, BB with a bye week to prepare for the birds...Anyone picking the Ravens to roll over us like they did last time is delusional.

But Houshmandzadeh and Mason are better than any WR we have because they have more career receptions!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[JMarr]

But Houshmandzadeh and Mason are better than any WR we have because they have more career receptions!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

By the end of 2009, for better or worse, Brady to Welker was the Pats' only legit offensive weapon. Take Welker out of the equation and the Pats had nothing that the Ravens couldn't handle, including a persona non grata playing wideout #2 (Aiken). What a difference a year makes.

The Ravens thought the got jobbed in the regular season game, spouted off about how the better team lost that day, and stewed about it all season. 1st play from scrimmage in their redemption game: gut punch to the Pats, who then showed about as much intestinal fortitude as a bunch of girl scouts at a UFC match. BB fumigated the lockerroom and got rid of the guys who didn't really want to be on the field that day: AD, Burgess, Springs and Moss and the ever consistent Maroney. What a difference a year makes.

 

[Interception]

Hey, guys. Ravens fan.

I'm not here to talk trash, I'm really not...

But the thing that stands out most to me is that you're wrong about your Wide Receivers being better than ours.

Fun fact: 1 team in the history of the NFL has had 3 WRs with 500+ receptions, and it's Boldin, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh on this year's Ravens.

Welker is a great WR. I think he could be as good as any one of those three, but anything after that doesn't compare. I'm not even sure you'd have the better corps. with Randy Moss. Without him? That's crazy...

Good luck on Sunday!

Even if true, I think it balances out when you look at who's throwing to those receivers.

 

[Kontradiction]

Ray Lewis>>>>>>Mayo

Hi. :bye2:

Head to head: Mayo - 18 tackles, Lewis - 9 tackles.

 

[Dscola]

Congratulations on a big victory for you guys. Both teams aquitted themselves very well today.

In the end I believe it came down to an elite QB vs a 3rd year very good QB.

Brady made the plays in the end where Flacco was trying not to lose. Hopefully you guys destroy the division and the Jets too.

Flacco to Mason is very good but Brady to Branch is like old times.

 

[Kontradiction]

Congratlations on a big victory for you guys. Both teams aquitted themselves very well today.

In the end I believe it came down to an elite QB vs a 3rd year very good QB.

Brady made the plays in the end where Flacco was trying not to lose. Hopefully you guys destroy the division and the Jets too.

Flacco to Mason is very good but Brady to Branch is like old times.

Indeed. Classy move coming back here. Watching this young defense keep it together against a good offense that you guys have was a pleasure to watch. Do not let the Steelers win the division and the Pats will do their best to keep the Jets out of first place. Hopefully, both teams stay healthy. If that happens, they'll be seeing each other in the playoffs again.

 

[TB=TD]

Hi. :bye2:

Head to head: Mayo - 18 tackles, Lewis - 9 tackles.

Rub it in you prick:singing:

 

[PatsDeb]

FWIW

NFL Picks and Predictions for Week 6 - National Football League - ESPN

espn ...all except 1 pick ravens

peter king picks 31-23 ravens

NFL Week 6 predictions by Peter King - Peter King - SI.com

Come on now, Petah got half the score right!

 

[Run DMC]

Rub it in you prick:singing:

Better than rubbing it out, so to speak. :bricks: