Pats/Ravens Expert picks

[Kontradiction]

Changing the subject is not going to help any argument this isn't about Ines Sainz.


6. D-Line: Edge Ravens

7. OLB's: Edge Ravens

8. ILB's: Edge Pats (slim)

9. Safety: Edge Pats (changes with the return of Reed)

10. CB: Edge Ravens

Three to two is far from huge difference in personnel. This is your point of view.

Sure it is when you take a closer look at it. I highlighted exactly why for you. If you choose to keep ignoring it, then do whatever makes you happy. Unfortunately, for any rational person, huge amounts of youth and inexperience at key positions cannot be ignored.

And the ILB's are only a slim edge because I think Mayo is better than Lewis. At the two most valuable positions in a 3-4 defense, the Ravens have the overwhelming edge.

 

[Kontradiction]

Keller was confused from that tormenting hit. There is nothing inept about Dustin.

That play was about as inept as it gets. Going out of bounds before the first down marker because his momentum carried him that way is the definition of inept. If Keller was seeing that many stars because of one hit, he wouldn't have been in the game with the NFL as concerned as they are about concussions.

And, as usual, you're ignoring the most obvious point: Ray Lewis was not involved in that play.

 

[Kontradiction]

By the way, you still haven't told me why you think the personnel issues on our defense are Mayo's fault. I can't wait to hear that one.

 

[TB=TD]

Sure it is when you take a closer look at it. I highlighted exactly why for you. If you choose to keep ignoring it, then do whatever makes you happy. Unfortunately, for any rational person, huge amounts of youth and inexperience at key positions cannot be ignored.

And the ILB's are only a slim edge because I think Mayo is better than Lewis. At the two most valuable positions in a 3-4 defense, the Ravens have the overwhelming edge.

If that truly is the case than this Patriot defense should be much better. Ray Lewis not a mere human.

YouTube - Old Spice | Heart of a Champion starring NFL Superperson Ray Lewis

Mayo can not duplicate Ray....

 

[TB=TD]

By the way, you still haven't told me why you think the personnel issues on our defense are Mayo's fault. I can't wait to hear that one.

Mayo can't rush the passer and Ray can. Patriots need a pass rush.

 

[Kontradiction]

If that truly is the case than this Patriot defense should be much better. Ray Lewis not a mere human.

YouTube - Old Spice | Heart of a Champion starring NFL Superperson Ray Lewis

Mayo can not duplicate Ray....

What's your explanation for Lewis' play before Ngata came into the Ravens defense? Do you not remember that? Let me save you the trouble: his play fell off considerably because the Ravens had some start personnel issues on their defense. Mayo and the Patriots defense are experiencing the exact same thing on this current defense, only at different positions.

 

[Kontradiction]

Mayo can't rush the passer and Ray can. Patriots need a pass rush.

Now I truly know all I need to know. I suggest you learn a little more about a two-gap defense, especially the one we run. The WILB is not primarily responsible for rushing the passer like Lewis is in the Ravens' one-gap.

But please, keep going.

 

[TB=TD]

What's your explanation for Lewis' play before Ngata came into the Ravens defense? Do you not remember that? Let me save you the trouble: his play fell off considerably because the Ravens had some start personnel issues on their defense. Mayo and the Patriots defense are experiencing the exact same thing on this current defense, only at different positions.

Mayo has the best NT in front of him. What is your point?

 

[TB=TD]

Now I truly know all I need to know. I suggest you learn a little more about a two-gap defense, especially the one we run. The WILB is not primarily responsible for rushing the passer like Lewis is in the Ravens' one-gap.

But please, keep going.

Mayo can still rush a passer without it being the main focus. Have you ever seen how fast Ray gets off blocks?

 

[Kontradiction]

Mayo has the best NT in front of him. What is your point?

:ugh:

Best NT in the game, a transition guy learning the ropes of a two-gapping 3-4 DE role on the run, a big question mark at the other DE role, a SILB next to him coming from an aggressive one-gapping 4-3 learning on the job to be an ILB in a two-gapping 3-4 at the pro level. Another conversion project rookie ALSO learning on the job at OLB, a JAG at the other OLB spot, two safeties that have their own issues (free lancing and coverage difficulties), a rookie at CB learning on the run, and a second year man at the other CB position trying to hone in his skills.

The personnel issues aren't occurring at the same spots, but they are still there for Mayo just like they were for Lewis in the middle part of the last decade. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that Mayo is working with MORE personnel issues today than Lewis was in 2005. It's actually not even close.

Keep going...

 

[Kontradiction]

Mayo can still rush a passer without it being the main focus. Have you ever seen how fast Ray gets off blocks?

If you've read my posts throughout the last season or so, you would know that my main complaint about him is his ability to get off blocks. That's one of the reasons why I said that Ray is still better at diagnosing plays and shooting the gap at this point. However, once again, Mayo's responsibility in this defense is not rushing the passer on passing downs. Ray's responsibility in the Ravens one-gap is (most of time, anyway).

 

[TB=TD]

:ugh:

Best NT in the game, a transition guy learning the ropes of a two-gapping 3-4 DE role on the run, a big question mark at the other DE role, a SILB next to him coming from an aggressive one-gapping 4-3 learning on the job to be an ILB in a two-gapping 3-4 at the pro level. Another conversion project rookie ALSO learning on the job at OLB, a JAG at the other OLB spot, two safeties that have their own issues (free lancing and coverage difficulties), a rookie at CB learning on the run, and a second year man at the other CB position trying to hone in his skills.

The personnel issues aren't occurring at the same spots, but they are still there for Mayo just like they were for Lewis in the middle part of the last decade. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that Mayo is working with MORE personnel issues today than Lewis was in 2005. It's actually not even close.

Keep going...

What is this code you're speaking in?

 

[Kontradiction]

What is this code you're speaking in?

I take it that's a white flag. Can't say I blame you. So far, you've shown that you have no clue of the differences between a two-gap and one-gap 3-4, no clue what the responsibilities of the ILB's are in those two defenses, no clue about your own team's personnel difficulties, no clue of what Mayo does for the defense, no clue of what Ray Lewis has actually done this year to make your points, and no clue of your own team's rankings on at least one side of the ball.

Did I miss anything?

 

[TB=TD]

If you've read my posts throughout the last season or so, you would know that my main complaint about him is his ability to get off blocks. That's one of the reasons why I said that Ray is still better at diagnosing plays and shooting the gap at this point. However, once again, Mayo's responsibility in this defense is not rushing the passer on passing downs. Ray's responsibility in the Ravens one-gap is (most of time, anyway).

There is no white flags being thrown. Just give me a couple months and the debate can continue.

 

[Llamablaster]

Hey, guys. Ravens fan.

I'm not here to talk trash, I'm really not...

But the thing that stands out most to me is that you're wrong about your Wide Receivers being better than ours.

Fun fact: 1 team in the history of the NFL has had 3 WRs with 500+ receptions, and it's Boldin, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh on this year's Ravens.

Welker is a great WR. I think he could be as good as any one of those three, but anything after that doesn't compare. I'm not even sure you'd have the better corps. with Randy Moss. Without him? That's crazy...

Good luck on Sunday!

 

[mgcolby]

What's your explanation for Lewis' play before Ngata came into the Ravens defense? Do you not remember that? Let me save you the trouble: his play fell off considerably because the Ravens had some start personnel issues on their defense. Mayo and the Patriots defense are experiencing the exact same thing on this current defense, only at different positions.

Lewis was actually whining publicly about that. And was threatening to leave Baltimore if they didn't get him some big bodies up front to take on blockers.

But I will stop injecting facts into your debate. This is a lively one. Kudos to you Kontra, I gave up.

 

[Kontradiction]

Lewis was actually whining publicly about that. And was threatening to leave Baltimore if they didn't get him some big bodies up front to take on blockers.

But I will stop injecting facts into your debate. This is a lively one. Kudos to you Kontra, I gave up.

WAS a lively one.

 

[mgcolby]

Hey, guys. Ravens fan.

I'm not here to talk trash, I'm really not...

But the thing that stands out most to me is that you're wrong about your Wide Receivers being better than ours.

Fun fact: 1 team in the history of the NFL has had 3 WRs with 500+ receptions, and it's Boldin, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh on this year's Ravens.

Welker is a great WR. I think he could be as good as any one of those three, but anything after that doesn't compare. I'm not even sure you'd have the better corps. with Randy Moss. Without him? That's crazy...

Good luck on Sunday!

If you had the 2005/2006 versions of Housh and Mason I would agree. But given that you have the 2010 versions I'll take Tate, Edelman, Welker and Branch over them as a whole. You could even throw Hernandez in there he is more of a WR than a TE, he has a foot in both worlds, but he is listed as a TE.

 

[Run DMC]

I was thinking about this game and suddenly had a flashback to our 2003 1st round playoff game against a very tough Titan's team. I can remember being very nervous about our chances as I am for this Sunday's Ravens game. We ended up winning 17-14 in a very physical(as expected) football game. This game spoke volumes about our Pats team. I think the Raven's game will show us exactly what we are working with this season. I'm really not too sure at this point. PS, it also kind of helped that we were the #1 D that year and #12 O.
My, how things have changed:
2003 New England Patriots Statistics & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[MarkS]

What's your explanation for Lewis' play before Ngata came into the Ravens defense? Do you not remember that? Let me save you the trouble: his play fell off considerably because the Ravens had some start personnel issues on their defense.

Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa left after the 01 season, and Ngata was drafted in 06. So I'll assume you're talking about the 4 seasons from 02 through 05. Here's a recap:

- Lost for most of the 2002 and 2005 seasons due to injuries (played in 6 and 5 games respectively).

- 2004 AP 1st team All Pro and Pro Bowl selection

- 2003 NFL Defensive Player of the Year

In sum, 42 total games played, 410 tackles (300 solo), 9 INTs

It's kinda hard to remember something that didn't actually happen.


ETA: You're also wrong about this: The Ravens play a 2-gap, not a 1-gap:


"The Ravens played predominantly a "2 gap" concept with their defensive line...."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...-consummate-pro-football-player#ixzz12UYGTUGO

"Lining up against the center in the two-gap scheme the Ravens employ..."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/ent...l/2010/09/gregg_and_cody_mountains_in_th.html