Pats problems on D...

[BPF]

....has more to do with 1st down pass defense than 3rd down. If the Pats played less off coverage and were more competitve holding teams to less than 5 yds on 1st down they would be in a better position to make stops on 3rd down.

The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

They are not a good first-down pass defense, ranking 30th in the NFL, and the Cards are all about passing on first down.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Pats problems on D....

We'll be in the nickel most of the game like we were against the Steelers, only even more b/c Arizona can't run the ball. The 5th defensive back will again probably be Lewis Sanders, he and also Meriweather can get up near the box so they won't be vulnerable to the run anyway.

 

[363839]

Re: Pats problems on D....

....has more to do with 1st down pass defense than 3rd down. If the Pats played less off coverage and were more competitve holding teams to less than 5 yds on 1st down they would be in a better position to make stops on 3rd down.

The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

That may be true but I've seen a lot of third and long conversions, too.
The secondary is starting to come around(I hope)so I really don't think this trend will continue(I hope).

 

[BPF]

Re: Pats problems on D....

We'll be in the nickel most of the game like we were against the Steelers, only even more b/c Arizona can't run the ball. The 5th defensive back will again probably be Lewis Sanders, he and also Meriweather can get up near the box so they won't be vulnerable to the run anyway.

I agree as it pertains to this game but we must get competitve at line by bumping WR's in order to improve on pass D. With O'Neal out of the starting lineup maybe we can do that going forward.

 

[BPF]

Re: Pats problems on D....

That may be true but I've seen a lot of third and long conversions, too.
The secondary is starting to come around(I hope)so I really don't think this trend will continue(I hope).

I have seen a slight improvement, sending 5 to create pressure instead of 3 would help as well.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Pats problems on D....

I agree as it pertains to this game but we must get competitve at line by bumping WR's in order to improve on pass D. With O'Neal out of the starting lineup maybe we can do that going forward.

Yeah, good call, Wilhite definitely seemed an upgrade over O'Neal this past Sunday, but let's see how he is against a different class of receiver. Of course, Boldin getting the weak off to heal wouldn't hurt either...

 

[WhiZa]

They should play nickel on first down verses the Cards

 

[363839]

Re: Pats problems on D....

I have seen a slight improvement, sending 5 to create pressure instead of 3 would help as well.

Agreed times 10:eat3:

 

[BradyManny]

Whoops, just remembered Lewis Sanders will be playing Safety this game w James Sanders likely still sidelined.

So 5th DB will have to be Deltha again...well, he seemed OK in the nickel, to be honest. He might be just fine there.

 

[RayClay]

....has more to do with 1st down pass defense than 3rd down. If the Pats played less off coverage and were more competitve holding teams to less than 5 yds on 1st down they would be in a better position to make stops on 3rd down.

The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

Are you factoring in touchdowns?

I will grant they avoid third down problems, though.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats problems on D....

I have seen a slight improvement, sending 5 to create pressure instead of 3 would help as well.

Could be a potential problem with playing tight to avoid 5 yard gains and rushing five against a team with good receivers, no?

 

[BPF]

Re: Pats problems on D....

Could be a potential problem with playing tight to avoid 5 yard gains and rushing five against a team with good receivers, no?

You've got to be able to mix it up, can't sit there in zone vs Warner and expect him to miss. I'm not advocating sending 5 most times vs this guy because more often than not he will find the right match up and burn you but you need to mix it up and not play so much vanilla, especially on 1st down.

 

[BPF]

Re: Pats problems on D....

Yeah, good call, Wilhite definitely seemed an upgrade over O'Neal this past Sunday, but let's see how he is against a different class of receiver. Of course, Boldin getting the weak off to heal wouldn't hurt either...

BB had some nice things to say about Wilhite this week:
All Things Bill Belichick: 17-Dec-2008 Press Conference Transcript

Q: How do you feel Jonathan Wilhite has responded the last couple of weeks to more playing time?

BB: Good. I thought Jonathan has done a good job the last few weeks. Earlier in the season, he had been working mainly in the slot. A couple of times, we were trying to work him in or he was working toward more playing time, but some circumstances set that back. One time he got sick and another time he had a family thing. Recently, he's had that opportunity and he's been able to capitalize on it. He's played well. He had a big turnover last week and I think he's played very competitively at both outside and in the slot. It's been good. The challenge for him is now that teams have seen more of his play they might start attacking him. Sometimes when you are a young corner, you don't get too much of that until they get enough of you on film when they can figure out what they want to do. He's worked hard at it. He's improved all year. He was a very good player coming out of college. Will [Muschamp] coached him at Auburn so he had very good coaching. On a collegiate level, fundamentally, he was probably ahead of most players that I've coached coming out of college. He had a great college coaching background so technique wise he was pretty refined in relative terms.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats problems on D....

You've got to be able to mix it up, can't sit there in zone vs Warner and expect him to miss. I'm not advocating sending 5 most times vs this guy because more often than not he will find the right match up and burn you but you need to mix it up and not play so much vanilla, especially on 1st down.

I know I'm kind of a wise guy, but our personnel limits us more than anything. That's not Clayborn Hynes or Law lining up against those receivers. I'm sure our defense will be designed to keep those Arizona wide outs out of the end zone and that means not letting them immediately get behind the corners.

I hope they blitz occasionally, but again that puts pressure on a pretty average secondary.

What I'm trying to say is, minus adding some all pros to the secondary and at OLB, you're looking at bend don't break and trying to frustrate receivers who want to go long like we did with Cincy a couple of years ago.

Stopping every 5 yard pass means maybe allowing easy touchdowns, with our personnel, and I don't think that's in the game plan.

 

[psychoPat]

Re: Pats problems on D....

Sounds like we might just have to outscore 'em, eh?

 

[jays52]

Ray Clay nailed it in my mind. It doesn't matter if you bring 11, if you don't have the personel to get there, all it's going to do is leave you wide open. When Thomas went down, that left one high-level pass rusher left in Green. It's not like we're the Giants with 6 guys who can all get after the QB.

Perhaps more important than the lack of sticky corners, is still the general lack of man-up skills from the linebackers. We've got some range in Mayo and Guyton, but they still don't have enough experience to cover a veteran back in the passing game. I lump Harrison into this group as well, as he was one of the best in the league at mitigating a tight end. What this does is leave the middle of the field wide open. It opens the tight end in the middle of the field, it enables deep crossing routes. All the things that we are seeing burn us in the passing game.

Granted, our corners are not the best in the league, but by playing such a deep look it will keep the plays in front of them. If we didn't do that, I think there would be a bunch of broken plays on this defense. I think that BB recognizes this, and allows the field to be shortened where playing speed is no longer as vital and zone coverage becomes more dense and effective.

Just my .02, but I am fairly certain that explains the 1st down passing stats.

 

[BPF]

Ray Clay nailed it in my mind. It doesn't matter if you bring 11, if you don't have the personel to get there, all it's going to do is leave you wide open. When Thomas went down, that left one high-level pass rusher left in Green. It's not like we're the Giants with 6 guys who can all get after the QB.

Perhaps more important than the lack of sticky corners, is still the general lack of man-up skills from the linebackers. We've got some range in Mayo and Guyton, but they still don't have enough experience to cover a veteran back in the passing game. I lump Harrison into this group as well, as he was one of the best in the league at mitigating a tight end. What this does is leave the middle of the field wide open. It opens the tight end in the middle of the field, it enables deep crossing routes. All the things that we are seeing burn us in the passing game.

Granted, our corners are not the best in the league, but by playing such a deep look it will keep the plays in front of them. If we didn't do that, I think there would be a bunch of broken plays on this defense. I think that BB recognizes this, and allows the field to be shortened where playing speed is no longer as vital and zone coverage becomes more dense and effective.

Just my .02, but I am fairly certain that explains the 1st down passing stats.

I totally agree with you on the LB's....great point.

 

[Fencer]

Re: Pats problems on D....

The 5th defensive back will again probably be Lewis Sanders, he and also Meriweather can get up near the box so they won't be vulnerable to the run anyway.

Unless I'm forgetting somebody, or James Sanders recovers, he's starting.

 

[RayClay]

Ray Clay nailed it in my mind. It doesn't matter if you bring 11, if you don't have the personel to get there, all it's going to do is leave you wide open. When Thomas went down, that left one high-level pass rusher left in Green. It's not like we're the Giants with 6 guys who can all get after the QB.

Perhaps more important than the lack of sticky corners, is still the general lack of man-up skills from the linebackers. We've got some range in Mayo and Guyton, but they still don't have enough experience to cover a veteran back in the passing game. I lump Harrison into this group as well, as he was one of the best in the league at mitigating a tight end. What this does is leave the middle of the field wide open. It opens the tight end in the middle of the field, it enables deep crossing routes. All the things that we are seeing burn us in the passing game.

Granted, our corners are not the best in the league, but by playing such a deep look it will keep the plays in front of them. If we didn't do that, I think there would be a bunch of broken plays on this defense. I think that BB recognizes this, and allows the field to be shortened where playing speed is no longer as vital and zone coverage becomes more dense and effective.

Just my .02, but I am fairly certain that explains the 1st down passing stats.

Don't despair, it's not like this doesn't work. We've been a patient defense since forever. Otis smith wasn't exactly a shutdown corner, and we played the rope a dope with Samuel and Hobbs, which is better than what we have now.

We outpatient teams, especially perennial losers who've just started to bloom like AZ. Keeping the play infront of you does allow for some tactics once an offense falls into a pattern.

I agree we have to get some pass rush, but I'd try to pick spots and fool them rather than send the house and expose ourselves. Any time the game stays close its to our advantage because we're poised and tested.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats problems on D....

Unless I'm forgetting somebody, or James Sanders recovers, he's starting.

I believe you're right. Who does that leave, Richardson? I liked him last year, but he has been gawdawful this year.