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Pats might still be 3-2 if Brady were playing

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by marcus, Oct 13, 2008.

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  1. marcus

    marcus Rookie

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    Don't get me wrong..I am 100% in the Cassell sucks camp and NEVER wanted him to start at QB for this team...but...

    The defense has been so mediocre or poor and the OL has been so bad, that even with Tom Brady the PATS might have lost to both Miami and SD.

    When will BB get some legitimate criticism for a HORRIBLE offseason?

    1. failed to adress CB situation properly..there were some options out there (e.g. Lito Shephard)
    2. Failed to get a veteran backup QB who doesn't sit down in a tuck when there is any pressure
    3. Did not draft or get any quality O-line members


    Are we witnessing the "cleveland Browns BB"
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I'm sorry, but you haven't been watching the games. The defense is getting lit up because the front 7 isn't getting consistent pressure on the QB. The defense is getting lit up because the CBs are still playing 10 yards off the receivers and not playing in press coverage and bumping the receivers at the line. The defense is getting lit up because they aren't making the plays they need to make.

    As for the offense, they aren't getting it done because of the inconsistent play from the O-line. And it hasn't mattered if they were run blocking or pass blockings. Its been inconsistent.

    Has Cassel helped matters? Nope. But he's not hurt them as much as people think.
  3. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    1. B.B. isnt going to mortgage the caps future to get one guy who MIGHT help the team.
    2. He most certainly looked at his options for a vet qb, and probably didnt like what he saw. He does evaluate players better than us :rolleyes:
    3. He did bring in some o-lineman (one of which is still hurt) and most of em werent an improvement.

    Bottom line, I don't recall anybody in free agency that would be that much of an improvement, without breaking the bank.
  4. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think BB knew what every one of us know .. If Brady goes down, we are pretty much screwed anyway.. Cassel at least knows the offense. Well Brady is out and we are pretty much screwed.. We would be 4-1 right now.. I think we would have beat miami... Cassel is what he is a back up QB.. will win us 3 games , lose us 3 games
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) Who was available? Other than overpay for Samuel, there was no CB available worth taking. They did draft two CBs and signed four free agents. Name on free agent from last offseason who is doing anything right now.
    2.) Again, who was available? You have to find a QB who fits the system Brady runs.
    3.) The Pats had 3 Pro Bowlers on the o-line last season. Right now, two of those Pro Bowlers are struggle as bad or worse than the other two guys who didn't. How was Belichick to know that Koppen and Mankins would struggle so badly without Brady? In the passing game, Mankins has been arguably worse than Yates this year.

    If this season comes apart, Belichick is accountable. But to say he is the Cleveland Belichick is just wrong. Do you think the Colts would be in any better shape if they lost Manning for the season? Look at Marv Levy's record without Jim Kelley, Bill Walsh without Montana, Chuck Noll without Bradway. You cannot expect that you lose your HOF QB and not have a significant drop off even for a HOF QB.
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    You were doing great until the last line. That's just assinine and proves you don't know what you are talking about.

    BB took the Cleveland Browns from being a crappy team to the play-offs. Their final year in Cleveland, the team gave up after the announcement that the team was moving to Baltimore and that many of the players weren't going to be kept.

    I also find it interesting that you make no mention of how the front 7 hasn't gotten consistent pressure on the QB. I also question whether you understand that its impossible to judge the drafting of Wheatley and Wilhite until they've been around while. And there is no quarantee that Antoine Cason or Aqib Talib would be playing any better in the Pats system. As for Lito Sheppard, what is to say he'd be doing any better here? Not to mention that the Eagles wanted insane compensation for him.

    People keep talking about "quality" veteran QB, but again, who was there to get? Joey Harrington? Chris Simms (who is on the street again)? Seriously.

    Not sure who the Pats could have taken for their O-line who would be helping right now, except maybe Zuttah. But other than that, who would you have had them get?
  7. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    1) The Eagles wanted ALOT for Lito, plus he's not THAT good.

    2) Really, who? Bledsoe? Looking at the UFA list, there was really nobody.

    3) There were other more important needs like LB and CB, which he did address in the 1st 2 rounds. Plus a rookie OL would not have been the answer.
  8. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    On WIP 610 in Philly, Eagles fans have been complaining how Samuels always plays 10 yards off the receiver.
  9. Afterlifemobile-86

    Afterlifemobile-86 Rookie

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    I disagree, i think the Pats would be 5-0 with Brady. The reason the defense is getting lit up so much is because we have a quarterback who can't consistently sustain point scoring drives. Another issue is the fact that this team really isn't capable of making a comeback in a game without Brady.
  10. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Perhaps, but the scores might have been more like...

    Pats 34, KC 10
    Pats 38, NYJ 17
    Miami 38, Pats 34
    Pats 48, SF 21
    SD 30, Pats 27

    Get the point?
  11. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    With Brady still playing we'd be 5-0, averaging 35+ points per game giving the D the opportunity to play with a lead, and with opponents knowing that they were likely to lose before ever stepping foot out onto the field.

    With Cassel playing, we're lucky to be 3-2, it's an oddity that we'll score more than 19 points per game, the Pats D is tired from being out on the field so long because the O is so inept, and opponents believe they are going to beat us before they even step foot out onto the field.
  12. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    right, the defense is just great. :rolleyes:

    its all Cassel's fault.

    againsat both Miami and San Diego the defense was absolutely HORRIBLE.

    there is no way you can pin that on Cassel.

    with Brady, playing like this, the Patriots would still be 3-2.
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There was Garcia. He is doing OK.

  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Garcia wasn't available, and he's struggled when placed in systems that aren't in the "West Coast Offense" mold.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, we knew that we were screwed without Brady. Perhaps that "fact" had something to do with the DECISION that Belichick and Pioli made to have two backups (choosing among three) who hadn't ever started an NFL game, and a #2 that hadn't started a game since high school. The FO decision was NOT only the one made after Brady was hurt. That decision has been the decision that the team has made for a couple of years.

    That being said, we might still be 3-2 with Brady. HOWEVER, we would be very confident of the playoffs and be still looking to compete for the bye, even at 3-2. We'd be waiting for some increased health at DB and RB, and looking for some help once Neal and Ross are available. And yes, we still might be considering adding a CB and LB.

  16. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Rookie

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    As far as the D goes I'm in the "no pressure" camp. Our secondary historically under belichick has only played as well as the front seven puts the rush on. I feel like this is something that will get better as the season goes on though. As far as the offensive line, its mind boggeling, I wanted to puke when Dan Koppen got pushed back 3 yards right into Morris. In the passing game Cassel holds the ball too long and often is just staring down the rush, the 4th down attempt was case in point last night, he looks to run far too often.
  17. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    The D should have felt pretty rested after the SF game. The offense had the ball for 2/3rds of the game.
  18. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Rookie

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    The o-line is crap right now, but Brady at least gives the offense a chance to move the chains and allow the d to rest.
    With TfB, the O doesn't always settle for FG attempts, especially inside the 5.

    With TfB, opposing offenses have to play more efficiently, as they know they can't rely on a Cassel led offense to stall every time. On the flip side, opposing defenses have to cover more options than just the 2 Cassel can read.

    Nothing's totally Cassel's fault, but the presence of Brady does change how the games would be played, even when he's not on the field. Opposing offenses can play differently with the lead, especially knowing a Cassel led offense is not currently capable of piling it on in a hurry.

    On the flip side, this team is in trouble because the core on both sides of the ball is not playing well. The o-line is getting schooled repeatedly, and it stems back to last year.

    The D-line isn't doing much better. No pressure on the qb whatsoever, leaving the secondary to cover for way too long.


    Idk if they'd be 5-0 with Brady, but it sure wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
  19. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

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    Through games like yesterday I'm almost glad Brady wasn't in, because the O-line would have just embarassed him. He would've done better than Cassel, but there was just too much pressure. I seriously doubt he would have made enough of a difference to win.
  20. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    I have been saying and thinking this, although I do think we would be at least 4-1, but as you say, even at 3-2 we would expect the team with brady to compete for a first round bye
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