Pats loss to Bills: Chad Ochocinco discussion

[supafly]

Right. And mental skills will come with time. And once the mental skills emerge, the physical skills will already be there, and he'll be able to produce like we all expected right away.

As a somewhat random example, Moss was a Patriot for 133 days before his first game. Ochocinco was a Patriot for 46 days prior to his first game, and won't be at 133 days until just before Week 14. Now I'm hoping it won't take Ochocinco all 133 of those days to get the mental aspect down pat, but it gives a good reference point into how much he was thrown in and expected to grasp right away.

I certainly hope that you're right Sciz.

I have been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt too, but in the same breath, I am wondering how much use he really has to this team?

We all know that Brady will look for gronk, welker, hernandez, woodhead, and branch way before he looks to 85--so why pay him so much to have such a limited role here?

I don't/won't get it, but then again I don't have to. I suspect that Belichick knows what he is doing. Either that, or he greatly over estimated ocho's worth to this team as a decoy or coverage puller--b/c I just don't feel as though he will get the respect that even Moss would demand. (not that I am trying to go down that road again, but just an example)

Even IF he does 'get it,' how much will he really help here? He isn't going to get many looks unless someone goes down, and even then, is he really worth 6.5 million dollars? It all seems strange to me..just not like Belichick and the front office. There has got to be some sort of realistic plan, but it's going to drive some of us crazy until we are able to figure it out.

 

[Sciz]

Even IF he does 'get it,' how much will he really help here? He isn't going to get many looks unless someone goes down, and even then, is he really worth 6.5 million dollars? It all seems strange to me..just not like Belichick and the front office. There has got to be some sort of realistic plan, but it's going to drive some of us crazy until we are able to figure it out.

As an economics major, Belichick understands sunk costs. That $4.5M bonus he got is gone, as is his $1M salary for this year. Basically, he'll have to decide if Ochocinco is worth $3M for each of the next two seasons. Even if he's an 800 yard receiver, he's probably worth that.

 

[zimmy]

Chad doesn't play special teams does he? It might be when Taylor Price and Hernandez are healthy that Chad might even be a gameday inactive? If he isn't going to contribute on special teams and is only a back up receiver, how much value is there on the gameday roster for him?

 

[supafly]

As an economics major, Belichick understands sunk costs. That $4.5M bonus he got is gone, as is his $1M salary for this year. Basically, he'll have to decide if Ochocinco is worth $3M for each of the next two seasons. Even if he's an 800 yard receiver, he's probably worth that.

Agreed, but I'm not sure how you are seeing anywhere close to that kind of production to be honest.

Everyone will see it differently, so I respect your optimism and hope that you're right.

 

[Sciz]

Chad doesn't play special teams does he? It might be when Taylor Price and Hernandez are healthy that Chad might even be a gameday inactive? If he isn't going to contribute on special teams and is only a back up receiver, how much value is there on the gameday roster for him?

Taylor Price doesn't play special teams either. And take every mental aspect that Ochocinco needs to learn and multiply it by about 10 and that's what Price has had to do over the last 15 months or so. Ocho shouldn't have any problem beating him out.

 

[Sciz]

Agreed, but I'm not sure how you are seeing anywhere close to that kind of production to be honest.

Everyone will see it differently, so I respect your optimism and hope that you're right.

Ochocinco was one bad route and one big drop away from a 4/86/1 day. Maybe my 800 yards projection was too low

 

[supafly]

Ochocinco was one bad route and one big drop away from a 4/86/1 day. Maybe my 800 yards projection was too low

We'll have to see if it works out or not, only time will tell. Hope you're right.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

We could have let Tate play #1 the same way and save money. Redzone o reminded me of 09 when we had Moss/Welker and now it's Gronk/Welker until Hernandez is back or Branch wakes up.

Brady has no confidence in Ocho and that drop makes it reasonable, now we can finally slow down with the praises of a stacked offense, time for Brady to drop his YPA a bit and settle for short throws, this isn't 07.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I'm not ready to give up on Ocho yet, but I'd like to see him deactivated for a few games. We cannot afford the mistakes like that big penalty in week 1 or the crazy drop yesterday.

Hopefully Price's hamstring is fine. I'd love to see him play as our #3 for a few games, and let Ocho sit and watch and learn some more.

I do think Ocho will turn things around though, and make an impact by the end of the season. I just don't think he is reliable right now though.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I do think Ochocinco will be able to get open for years to come even accounting for a decline in his speed. Heck, this is the scheme where Deion Branch gets 100 yard games, and he's got nothing going for him athletically other than his quick feet. Ochocinco has that, plus a little more speed, plus a little more size. It's just a matter of him getting open, and I think they were mostly content with using him as a decoy to open up Welker today. It definitely worked.

I think a big milestone for Ochocinco is when they trust him to run the comeback/fade option. That's the one route (two routes?) that Branch dominated teams with at times last year, and it seems that Ochocinco's size would only make him better at it. They just have to trust him to make the right read as well as be exactly where he needs to be when he needs to be there. And all that requires physically is just enough speed to make the CB respect the fade and the quick feet to beat him back on the comeback, and Ochocinco definitely still has that.

He was not the decoy who opened up things for Welker today. That was Branch who was doubled most of the day likely after his week 2 performance which some here have already forgotten. The only reception Chad had on the day was one I could have made, and I'm BB's age, because Chad was left uncovered... Branch was only targeted 3 times yesterday and one of those times the throw was uncatchable out of bounds. That is what happens to him in double coverage, and was the reason Bill wouldn't pay him what he wanted 5 years ago... Welker and Ocho were single covered, and one was targeted close to a third of the time and caught 16 passes for 200 yards. The other was targeted 4 times and only managed one catch. That means he either consistently was unable to get open or he consistently ran the wrong or poor routes or Brady already has his doubts as to whether he can be trusted - and not just to make the tough catch but to make more than half of the gimmes...

Ocho's problem is, was and has always been focus. His ability covered for that in his heyday and the dysfunctional situation in Cincy allowed him to get away with it. That dog won't hunt here. And understanding the principle of sunk cost as Bill does actually makes it more likely a player who isn't earning his keep here doesn't just get to remain here... His mere existence on this roster is seriously upping the ante on a Welker extension. I assume the abuse he withstands is what has given Bill pause in extending him, along with the faint hope that Edleman eventually emerges as Lou Gherig to his Wally Pip. I wouldn't hold my breath on that hope any more than I would the one that Ocho eventually morphs into something he never was on his back nine...selfless and focused and driven to do whatever it takes to help his team win.

Once Hernandez is back Chad's opportunities will be drastically limited and if Price can ever get or stay healthy Chad's opportunities will be further limited. If either can't produce better results I'd just as soon have Slater on the field. At least if he manages to sneak into the open he tends to catch the damn ball.

If Bill has or is developing an achilles heel it is that he's seduced by talent and football intellect to the point he's lost sight of how those traits pale in comparison to drive and the instinctive ability to consistently make plays on the field when it matters irrespective.

 

[Froob]

At this point why does price tag matter? Unless your bob kraft, doesn't really matter they weren't going to use that cash. Chad was for years my favorite non pat and I really want him to succeed here but he might be running out of time.

 

[ensoul]

I know there was no training camp and I know he may not know the plays. However if nothing else, and I mean nothing else, you have to catch the GD ball when it lands in your hands. Who knows what the outcome would have been but I can only assume the Bills will march up the field and score and at the very least Brady would have gotten the ball back.

 

[everlong]

Chad has certainly underwhelmed to this point. Yesterday 2/28 and a big drop that would have put this stat line I believe at 3/69 with a TD. Probably more importantly the route he rounded that resulted in a TD. Doesn't really matter if you want to put that on Brady or Chad the fact remains the chemistry isn't there.

All of that said he's here for at least this year.

1. They're on the hook for his salary already.
2. He's not a malcontent or locker room cancer. Hell AD didn't get cut.
3. According to everybody he's still working as hard as anybody to right the ship.

I'm still hopeful he can be a factor for this team. However I'm also a lot more doubtful he will be. When Hernandez returns if he hasn't made strides he'll probably be phased out even more and become an overpaid reserve.

 

[Patriot to the Core]

I don't know how the whole drafting and trading players works but I would go all out to get a player like Fred Jackson, david nelson etc.

Fred Jackson was a beast yesterday, while Ocho was hardly in the game apart from when it counted and he came up short! :bricks:

 

[goheels22002]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

What we need are physical receivers that can handle the tough, press coverage the Jets will give us in the playoffs, I don't think Ocho gives us that.

Here's a thread worth reviving. So many comments warning against signing Ochocinco and they seem to be correct as this guy fizzles on the field and drops down the depth chart after three games.

Undisciplined, can't run precise routes, doesn't understand the complexities of the offense, can't get separation. Drops the ball!

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

in on soon to be Ochocinco hate thread.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

Why the HELL did we let Gaffney go?

 

[fumbrunner]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

Here's a thread worth reviving.

Uh no, not worth reviving.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

Here's a thread worth reviving. So many comments warning against signing Ochocinco and they seem to be correct as this guy fizzles on the field and drops down the depth chart after three games.

Undisciplined, can't run precise routes, doesn't understand the complexities of the offense, can't get separation. Drops the ball!

Well the bolded is a clearly crock of ****. Ocho created good separation on quite a few plays yesterday. He made 2 glaring mistakes by 1. dropping a sure TD and 2. letting the defensive back undercut him on the interception.

Ocho's created separation. Brady looked for Gronkowski and Welker yesterday.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Re: #85 Chad Ochocinco still wants to play for the Pats

Well the bolded is a clearly crock of ****. Ocho created good separation on quite a few plays yesterday. He made 2 glaring mistakes by 1. dropping a sure TD and 2. letting the defensive back undercut him on the interception.

Ocho's created separation. Brady looked for Gronkowski and Welker yesterday.

This, on some throws, he did not even bother to check anybody else. He was on Welker like how Painter used Wayne in the preseason. Life saver.