Pats looking at Randy Moss?

[Bobs My Uncle]

I don't get how people automatically assume that the addition of Moss would make us unstoppable. It has been three seasons since Moss has been anything better than an average to above average WR. He has been injury prone the last three years. In the past three years, he has had two QBs who were in the top six in the league in passing yards for those seasons. One of those years, Culpepper had over 4,700 yards.

I don't think the Randy Moss of 2003 and before exists anymore. Contrary to popular beliefs, he did try for the Raiders in 2005 and Kerry Collins did actually have a decent enough year (3759 yards and 20 TDs and 12 INTs). Yet, he had 1,005 yards and 8 TDs.

People assume that with a change of scenery that he will automatically become a 1,400 yard, 12 TD WR. His recent history says that he can't do it anymore.

For a second day pick and a cap friendly deal with no dead money, it is worth the risk to see if he can turn it aound. But it is far more likely that Moss is no longer an elite WR anymore.

The Pats wouldn't need Moss to be an elite (whatever elite means) WR in order to make them a much better team. All they need is for him to be a legitimate threat as a WR so as to open up this offense. If Moss is such a threat then he'll team with Stallworth and Welker to give the Pats a trio of starting WR's that should allow the games best QB to post stats that are out of this world.

You reference Moss's 60 catch/1005 yards/8 TD's from a season before last. If the Pats can get anything remotely close to such production from him then the Pats offense will be unstoppable.

 

[QuiGon]

Is he? Stallworth has been better the last three years combined than Moss. And Stallworth is better suited for our offense because he is good route runner.

I don't think Moss could start for the Pats.

If healthy, Randy Moss could start for any of the 32 teams in the NFL. Let's not go overboard with homerism by saying Stallworth is a better player or "better suited for our offense". There may be 2 or 3 other WR's currently in the NFL of Moss' caliber. Donte Stallworth is not one of them.

He is an one-dimensional player (and as I said in the past that one-dimension was awesome in the past). The Pats like to play a lot of short to intermediate routes which isn't his strength. I think Brady can huck it down the field if he needed to, but he is at his best finding soft spots in the defense and methodically picking them apart. I don't think you can do that with Moss on the field all the time at least if you are in a two WR set.

I think Brady and Belichick have gone to war with the army they have, and adjusted their offensive style as such. But if the Pats got a legit deep threat like Moss, he would be utilized.

 

[fgssand]

That's just not right.

Your a very bad girl, patchick - LOL - funny thing is, they eyes are really just the same.

 

[upstater1]

I want Randy Moss here. Plus, I want to play madden with Randy Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Maroney on the field. I want to play it with Adalius Thomas and an upgraded Asante Samuel too. Should be fun come August.

 

[dhamz]

Peter King said on WEEI that he believes:

1 - Moss will be traded today.
2 - Moss would restructure his deal to go to NE or GB.
3 - Whoever offers the best pick will get him.

 

[drpatriot]

Okay, that was mean. I feel bad about myself now.

but don't tell me it didn't occur to you too...

Congratulations, that was hilarious.

 

[Rob0729]

Quotes like this are often followed by.....Moss couldn't hold Troy Brown's jock strap......or perhaps If you give Bam Childress a chance he could be better..perhaps much better than Moss will be.

Quotes like that are followed by Moss is going to be a stud eventhough he has been injury plagued and hasn't gotten over 1,005 yards in a season in three years. It was because he was playing with the Raiders.

Moss is better than Troy Brown, but is he better than Stallworth? You can't say that. Yes, he was significantly better than Stallworth is now four years ago, but is he now. And if you think there is no other potential answer than yes, you are kidding yourself.

The last time Moss was more than an average WR was 2003. That is a long time ago. I am not going assume that he is going to return to anything close to his 2003 form just because he comes to the Patriots. The 2003 version of Moss would command us to revise our offense to accomodate him, but the 2007 version doesn't.

I'm sorry, but you can assume that Moss is anything more than what he has been the last three years. That is the reality of Moss. The belief that Moss is just in a bad situation and still is a top WR in the league is the fantasy that still needs to be proven. To quote Bill Parcells, "You are what you are". And right now Moss is a broken down former stud WR with an attitude problem.

 

[Remix 6]

Quotes like that are followed by Moss is going to be a stud eventhough he has been injury plagued and hasn't gotten over 1,005 yards in a season in three years. It was because he was playing with the Raiders.

Moss is better than Troy Brown, but is he better than Stallworth? You can't say that. Yes, he was significantly better than Stallworth is now four years ago, but is he now. And if you think there is no other potential answer than yes, you are kidding yourself.

The last time Moss was more than an average WR was 2003. That is a long time ago. I am not going assume that he is going to return to anything close to his 2003 form just because he comes to the Patriots. The 2003 version of Moss would command us to revise our offense to accomodate him, but the 2007 version doesn't.

I'm sorry, but you can assume that Moss is anything more than what he has been the last three years. That is the reality of Moss. The belief that Moss is just in a bad situation and still is a top WR in the league is the fantasy that still needs to be proven. To quote Bill Parcells, "You are what you are". And right now Moss is a broken down former stud WR with an attitude problem.

i wanna see u get over 1000 yards with Brooks and Walter as your QB and no OL and Moss if he aint happy..and the team aint trying..he tends to stop working

 

[Rob0729]

If healthy, Randy Moss could start for any of the 32 teams in the NFL. Let's not go overboard with homerism by saying Stallworth is a better player or "better suited for our offense". There may be 2 or 3 other WR's currently in the NFL of Moss' caliber. Donte Stallworth is not one of them.

I think Brady and Belichick have gone to war with the army they have, and adjusted their offensive style as such. But if the Pats got a legit deep threat like Moss, he would be utilized.

I'm not going overboard with my homerism for Stallworth. Stallworth is a decent starter. He's no elite WR or even in that second tier, but he he is a good WR who fits our system pretty well.

Let's not go overboard with Moss' reputation over his actual production. There are at least a dozen or two dozen WRs I would take over Moss right now. Moss hasn't had a season where he had over 1,005 yards since 2003. People just assume that Moss is still this elite WR who just took the last three seasons off. I don't think that is the case. Three years is a very long time in the NFL not to produce.

 

[Deus Irae]

Quotes like that are followed by Moss is going to be a stud eventhough he has been injury plagued and hasn't gotten over 1,005 yards in a season in three years. It was because he was playing with the Raiders.

Moss is better than Troy Brown, but is he better than Stallworth? You can't say that. Yes, he was significantly better than Stallworth is now four years ago, but is he now. And if you think there is no other potential answer than yes, you are kidding yourself.

The last time Moss was more than an average WR was 2003. That is a long time ago. I am not going assume that he is going to return to anything close to his 2003 form just because he comes to the Patriots. The 2003 version of Moss would command us to revise our offense to accomodate him, but the 2007 version doesn't.

I'm sorry, but you can assume that Moss is anything more than what he has been the last three years. That is the reality of Moss. The belief that Moss is just in a bad situation and still is a top WR in the league is the fantasy that still needs to be proven. To quote Bill Parcells, "You are what you are". And right now Moss is a broken down former stud WR with an attitude problem.

There are people called "scouts" who follow players. Their job is to determine the playing ability of other players, among other things. Perhaps one of those "scouts" has watched Randy Moss play football at some point in the past 3 years and has come to the conclusion that he'd help the Patriots and be worth a 3rd round pick or lower?

Just a thought.... I'm sure you are far more knowledgeable about the talent level of NFL players than the New England Patriots' scouting staff, but it's just remotely possible that they might have a bit more insight than you do.

 

[moosekill]

There are people called "scouts" who follow players. Their job is to determine the playing ability of other players, among other things. Perhaps one of those "scouts" has watched Randy Moss play football at some point in the past 3 years and has come to the conclusion that he'd help the Patriots and be worth a 3rd round pick or lower?

Just a thought.... I'm sure you are far more knowledgeable about the talent level of NFL players than the New England Patriots' scouting staff, but it's just remotely possible that they might have a bit more insight than you do.

Thats just plain crazy talk.

 

[Rob0729]

i wanna see u get over 1000 yards with Brooks and Walter as your QB and no OL and Moss if he aint happy..and the team aint trying..he tends to stop working

Ok, you described the 2006 season. How about 2005 when Kerry Collins got 3,759 yards and Moss got 1,005 of them? How about 2004 when Culpepper got 4,717 yards and Moss only got 767 of them?

Moss apologists use the look at the offense around him excuse, but it is bogus. In 2005, the Raiders were 10th in passing yards and 12th in passing TDs. In 2004, the Vikes were 2nd in both passing yards and passing TDs. People just assume that the 2006 season was indicative of the talent around him, but it is far from the truth.

 

[Remix 6]

Ok, you described the 2006 season. How about 2005 when Kerry Collins got 3,759 yards and Moss got 1,005 of them? How about 2004 when Culpepper got 4,717 yards and Moss only got 767 of them?

Moss apologists use the look at the offense around him excuse, but it is bogus. In 2005, the Raiders were 10th in passing yards and 12th in passing TDs. In 2004, the Vikes were 2nd in both passing yards and passing TDs. People just assume that the 2006 season was indicative of the talent around him, but it is far from the truth.

in '04 he was hurting a lot..he was limited..he still got 13 TDs

in '05..Kerry Collins was just as bad and whats wrong with 1050? When was the last time we had a 1000 yards WR?

u cant look at stats of QB-WR like that..injuries..how offense is going relies on that too. If u can get Moss for a 4th ..you've got a steal

 

[Rob0729]

There are people called "scouts" who follow players. Their job is to determine the playing ability of other players, among other things. Perhaps one of those "scouts" has watched Randy Moss play football at some point in the past 3 years and has come to the conclusion that he'd help the Patriots and be worth a 3rd round pick or lower?

Just a thought.... I'm sure you are far more knowledgeable about the talent level of NFL players than the New England Patriots' scouting staff, but it's just remotely possible that they might have a bit more insight than you do.

Ummmmm...... What scout said he was worth a third round or lower? When did the Pats even offer a third rounder? The report was a second day pick. That could be a fifth or sixth round for all we know.

Besides, if the scouts felt he was worth a third rounder or lower, that means they are closer to my conclusion than some of the others. If the scouts felt that Moss was still an elite WR in a bad situation, they would say he is worth a third round or higher.

 

[patsox23]

I suspect the Patriots wouldn't trade for Moss unless they were pretty well convinced that they'd be getting a guy very much recommitted to working hard and playing within the context of TEAM. I also suspect he is a far superior player to what he's been - now that makes him kind of a jerk, but if he indeed turns over a new leaf here, who the F cares what kind of slack-off he was in Minny and Oak?

 

[patsox23]

if the scouts felt he was worth a third rounder or lower, that means they are closer to my conclusion than some of the others. If the scouts felt that Moss was still an elite WR in a bad situation, they would say he is worth a third round or higher.

What if the scouts don't think we should offer that much b/c everyone knows he's demanding a trade, and Oakland is in a tough spot where getting something MORE than a 3rd rounder if completely unrealistic?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, you described the 2006 season. How about 2005 when Kerry Collins got 3,759 yards and Moss got 1,005 of them? How about 2004 when Culpepper got 4,717 yards and Moss only got 767 of them?

Moss apologists use the look at the offense around him excuse, but it is bogus. In 2005, the Raiders were 10th in passing yards and 12th in passing TDs. In 2004, the Vikes were 2nd in both passing yards and passing TDs. People just assume that the 2006 season was indicative of the talent around him, but it is far from the truth.

Yes, we should definitely hold a 1000 yard season against him in 2005. As for 2004, his missing 3 games is no excuse for not having 1500 yards receiving or better because some internet geek says so, and we all know that there's no way any decent receiver could have put up less than 100,000 yards with that Raider's team from last season.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I'm not going overboard with my homerism for Stallworth. Stallworth is a decent starter. He's no elite WR or even in that second tier, but he he is a good WR who fits our system pretty well.

.

Amen to that.
On other point that no one has mentioned is that Randy would probably be a poster boy for good behavior for about one year ( see T. O. for example) to show that all that talk wasn't true. After that, who knows but for one year I believe he'd keep his mouth shut.
If the brain trust believes that and he'll resturcture to a cap-friendly incentive-based deal the only remaining questions are a) do you want him on your team? The fact that Beoli are talking answers that question and b) what is the cost.
The Raiders are going to want to 4th at least. " You gave us a 5th for Doug Gabriel, Isn't Randy Moss worth more?" I'd see what they'll take provided it's a 2nd day pick and maybe a conditional second day pick. The Raiders are trying to play the Pats vs GB but the Pats are in the drivers seat with a pretty decent set of WRs even without Moss.....

 

[Rob0729]

in '04 he was hurting a lot..he was limited..he still got 13 TDs

in '05..Kerry Collins was just as bad and whats wrong with 1050? When was the last time we had a 1000 yards WR?

u cant look at stats of QB-WR like that..injuries..how offense is going relies on that too. If u can get Moss for a 4th ..you've got a steal

You are helping me prove my point. Moss has been injury prone in each of the last three years.

Don't give me the Kerry Collins BS. In 1999, Moss got 1400 yards and 11 TDs with the combination of Jeff "freaking" George (played 10 games) and a washed up Randall Cunningham (played 6 games) throwing to him. In 1998, he got 1300 yards and 17 TDs with Cunningham. Moss has put up stud numbers in the past with a horrible QB and a washed up QB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ummmmm...... What scout said he was worth a third round or lower? When did the Pats even offer a third rounder? The report was a second day pick. That could be a fifth or sixth round for all we know.

Besides, if the scouts felt he was worth a third rounder or lower, that means they are closer to my conclusion than some of the others. If the scouts felt that Moss was still an elite WR in a bad situation, they would say he is worth a third round or higher.

1.) a second day pick IS a third rounder or lower.

2.) the report that I saw was that the Patriots had offered a 4th round pick. That, as noted, IS a third rounder or lower.

3.) You don't offer teams who are over a barrel high draft picks for players, even if the player is a starter. For those such as yourself, who are obviously omniscient in matters football, perhaps a simple reference to the Trent Green/Daunte Culpepper moves/negotiations of recent years would be a gentle reminder.