Pats give Branch permission to seek Trade

[brady2brown]

The issue of open versus not open is one of personal opinion obviously. Suffice it to say that the market for Branch's services is much more restricted right now than it was back in May. Back then the league was flush with sal cap $ and vacant roster spots. This is no longer the case.

What's no longer the case? That teams no longer have money? Or that they no longer have roster spots?

Teams have money. And teams without money can adjust existing contracts to save money, turning salary into signing bonuses. Teams do that every year (every year except this one because teams have so much money this year with the new CAP.)

As far as roster spots, they have just as many now as before. There have been no new WRs come into the league since May. In fact, there is at least one fewer as Koren Robinson is gone. You and others have been saying all along that Deion is a top ten receiver. That means he is better than the ALL the WRs on 22 NFL teams.

If that were true, 22 teams are now calling his agent looking to upgrade.

The fact is that Deion isn't a top ten WR. He is NOT better than the No 1 on almost all NFL teams (expcept the Pats). That is why he cannot get top dollar. He isn't worth it.

To say that a team has filled its roster and cannot cut a UDFA STer to make room for Deion is silly. I'm not a Deion supporter and even I think more highly of Deion than that!

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

in the case of parking tickets, i think its a tax

No it's not. If it were, it would be called an "Illegal parking tax". It's a FINE for not playing by the rules. If you KEEP doing it, they add removal of your license to the fines as further punishment. Just like the big fat FINE that Deion is going to pay for not playing by the rules... if he KEEPS doing it (refusing to honor his contract), they'll add removal of an entire season to the fines as further punishment.

Fine
–noun
1. a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction
–verb (used with object)
5. to subject to a fine or pecuniary penalty; punish by a fine

 

[Seymour93]

No it's not. If it were, it would be called an "Illegal parking tax". It's a FINE for not playing by the rules. If you KEEP doing it, they add removal of your license to the fines as further punishment. Just like the big fat FINE that Deion is going to pay for not playing by the rules... if he KEEPS doing it (refusing to honor his contract), they'll add removal of an entire season to the fines as further punishment.

Fine
–noun
1. a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction
–verb (used with object)
5. to subject to a fine or pecuniary penalty; punish by a fine

Now we're talking about illegal parking taxes? This thread has taken a bizarre turn.

 

[ayjackson]

Besides, I completely disagree about the definition of "open market." FA are in "open market," players under contract or franchised are not in a "open market." And IF the holdup on the deal is compensation (which it usually is), than that will continue to be the hold up a trade no matter what time Branch tries to get a trade.

the market is "open" to a player under contract if his employer gives him permission to access it....it is less than open though, if not all the consumers have realistic access to it

(whether all consumers (teams) have 'realistic access" to it is the subjective debate to which dabruinz alluded)

 

[NE39]

Branch is doing what the CBA allows him to do.

The Pats are doing what the CBA allows them as well. They signed a contract, and are living up to their end. They have the right to franchise him when he does reach FA.

That same CBA says Branch doesn't have a right to FA until he fufills his contract. Why is it the Pats should give up their collectively-bargained rights with Branch? That is what he wants, but that would be unfair to the Patriots.

 

[Seymour93]

Re: The Branch Trade is like the Manny Waiver

Washington would, but they're set at WR. Philadelphia, because they've got an owner who spends and they need WR help, is the most realistic option for Branch at the moment. Does anybody know how much cap room Philly currently has? Minnesota is another potential destination, calling all capologists...

Ok, I'll answer my own question. I found this site that projects every team's salary cap space. It was last updated in May however, so the rookie contracts have yet to be taken into account.

In bold are the teams most likely to express an interest.

Rank Team $ Under the Cap

1 Philadelphia Eagles $19.2589 M

2 New England Patriots $16.9489 M

3 San Diego Chargers $14.7211 M

4 New Orleans Saints $14.1018 M

5 Jacksonville Jaguars $13.8492 M

6 Arizona Cardinals $13.7119 M

7 Minnesota Vikings $13.071 M

8 NY Jets $13.0653 M

9 Dallas Cowboys $12.8912 M

10 Seattle Seahawks $11.7228 M

Click here for the rest of the list

 

[ayjackson]

No it's not. If it were, it would be called an "Illegal parking tax". It's a FINE for not playing by the rules. If you KEEP doing it, they add removal of your license to the fines as further punishment. Just like the big fat FINE that Deion is going to pay for not playing by the rules... if he KEEPS doing it (refusing to honor his contract), they'll add removal of an entire season to the fines as further punishment.

Fine
–noun
1. a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction
–verb (used with object)
5. to subject to a fine or pecuniary penalty; punish by a fine

now why would a politician call a parking fine an "illegal parking tax"?

people don't like taxes you know.....fines are much more palpable...

 

[NE39]

There are tons of teams that would have interest in Branch. The only thing discouraging those teams this time of year is the compensation it would take to trade for him. Plenty of teams have cap room, he effectively has a very open market.

The fact his value is not as high because he is already under contract to the Patriots is not their fault. It is an open market, but they have rights.

 

[patpatriot]

Consider the possibility of starting a bidding war in the NFC North. GB, Chicago, and Minny all need a wr. These teams are fairly closely matched (unless you are a Bears fan...boy are those guys delusional) and Deon could be the piece that puts one of these teams over the top and into the playoffs. How much is that worth? Quite a bit I would think in terms of $ for Deon and Draft picks for us (I'm thinking an 06 #2 and an 07 #3). A similar sitruation exists in the NFC east with Philly being the most desparate, the redskins with deep pockets, and Dallas with the TO situation.

 

[ayjackson]

There are tons of teams that would have interest in Branch. The only thing discouraging those teams this time of year is the compensation it would take to trade for him. Plenty of teams have cap room, he effectively has a very open market.

The fact his value is not as high because he is already under contract to the Patriots is not their fault. It is an open market, but they have rights.

i think it's safe to say that if most teams have cap room and still have roster wiggle room, then the market is quite open. the cap room issue is objective, and i don't have the stats. whether teams have decided they're set at WR or would be willing to reevaluate is a subjective test. suffice to say i have no opinion, but was just trying to help clarify DMU's opinion (or suggestion) and clarify what he meant by open market.

 

[ayjackson]

what i hope has happened is that SP/BB have made their best offer and branch balked....so SP/BB invited them to seek better by Sept 1....if they found better, SP/BB would trade him if stated criteria were met....if they didn't find better, they would report and sign the extention or play out the contract with no assurance against use of the TAG next season.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

now why would a politician call a parking fine an "illegal parking tax"?

people don't like taxes you know.....fines are much more palpable...

I know you got a smilie in there, but still... don't miss my point. The fines are a punishment for NOT following the rules in both cases, as evidenced by the fact that in both cases much more severe penalties are levied for continuing to ignore the rules.

Branch isn't playing by the rules outlined in the CBA, Branch is being punished for breaking the rules outlined in the CBA to the degree with which the CBA has deemed appropriate.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The Branch Trade is like the Manny Waiver

Ok, I'll answer my own question. I found this site that projects every team's salary cap space. It was last updated in May however, so the rookie contracts have yet to be taken into account.

In bold are the teams most likely to express an interest.



Click here for the rest of the list

The only problem with that site is that it hasn't been updated since before Memorial day. A LOT of things have happened, including the signing of rookies.

 

[ayjackson]

I know you got a smilie in there, but still... don't miss my point. The fines are a punishment for NOT following the rules in both cases, as evidenced by the fact that in both cases much more severe penalties are levied for continuing to ignore the rules.

Branch isn't playing by the rules outlined in the CBA, Branch is being punished for breaking the rules outlined in the CBA to the degree with which the CBA has deemed appropriate.

i disagree about the CBA....i think the intent of the fine is to discourage the holdout, not to punish it....that's my opinion.

as far as parking goes:

if i park downtown Boston everyday without paying and get one $50 ticket per week, and you park in downtown Boston everyday for $10 x 5 days = $50, that the city of boston cares by which means it gets its revenue....if they are indifferent, then it's just another tax...i know i'm being somewhat facetious here but it's just a chat board....

it would make a good experiment for you and a buddy....parking downtown everyday, one paying the meter, one paying the fines, and seeing who's further ahead in the long run

 

[Seymour93]

Re: The Branch Trade is like the Manny Waiver

The only problem with that site is that it hasn't been updated since before Memorial day. A LOT of things have happened, including the signing of rookies.

Brodrick Bunkley is the only significant player the Eagles have signed since May. Every other team that I put in bold had one mid-to-late 1st round pick.

 

[ayjackson]

further to the ethics of pruposely incurring fines....

in Canada, a business could not deduct fines for income tax purposes, because it expense was not incurred to earn income

except, a couple years ago, our Supreme Court heard a case where an egg producer purposely produced more eggs than its egg marketing co-op permitted and was fined on each occasion. they continued to do it however, because they said they made more money in spite of the fines. the Supreme Court said that the fines were deductible because the company made the decision to purposely break the rules to earn income....thus it was an legitimate expense like any other.


no point really


but is it ethically okay to holdout and pay the fine?? i think it is if it was discussed during the CBA negotiations. these are the things that players can do, these are the things that owners can do, and these are the consequences of each.

the owners did give permission for the players to holdout until week 10, didn't they?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There is only one problem with your scenario. By week 10, Branch will be having to pay the Patriots because of the fines and game checks he will have sacrificed. I believe that the team can suspend him at that point and not pay him at all. I am not sure he would get an accrued season if he was suspended.

No they cannot then suspend him. Rules changed after TO.

And Branch is not a #2 WR, he's a #1. Problem is...he's say 13th at best to 20th in the NFL as a #1. Wants to get top 10 money.

 

[Miguel]

A couple of facts

Branch is scheduled to get paid $1.065 million, not $1.5 million this year

the 2nd time a franchise player gets tagged he gets the minimum of a 20% increase or the average of the 5 salary cap numbers at his position.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Now we're talking about illegal parking taxes? This thread has taken a bizarre turn.

Indeed it has. Must be time for me to exit, stage left else I'll waste far too much additional time on this issue.

For the record, I side with neither party in this. I just happen to believe that each party has issues and merits that make them right, and wrong.

Btw, I always pay my parking tickets, and/or fines

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

further to the ethics of pruposely incurring fines....

in Canada, a business could not deduct fines for income tax purposes, because it expense was not incurred to earn income

except, a couple years ago, our Supreme Court heard a case where an egg producer purposely produced more eggs than its egg marketing co-op permitted and was fined on each occasion. they continued to do it however, because they said they made more money in spite of the fines. the Supreme Court said that the fines were deductible because the company made the decision to purposely break the rules to earn income....thus it was an legitimate expense like any other.


no point really


but is it ethically okay to holdout and pay the fine?? i think it is if it was discussed during the CBA negotiations. these are the things that players can do, these are the things that owners can do, and these are the consequences of each.

the owners did give permission for the players to holdout until week 10, didn't they?

Thanks to my fellow Canuck for helping to shed light on this matter during my absence.

Now, about them eggs .......