Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts) [merged]

[BPF]

You guys have all the stories I have collected but I haven't seen these two:

BB's point of view: http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspot.com/2007/09/bill-belichicks-interpretation.html

How information gathering is used: http://www.blogtheberkshires.com/sou...1/spygate.html

Excellent work!!

Also, let's not forget Florio's piece from today, tying different stories together nicely.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=78346

 

[fgssand]

http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html

not sure if this was posted found it in another thread just now...

 

[PatriotsReign]

Fellow Pats Fans,

Some of us are embarking on a project to pull together the known, source-able information the media are not regularly "getting" as the neverending spygate saga continues.

The purpose is to pull together facts, not conjecture, not "this must mean that" type of information. Just facts.

The goal is to generate a series of Fact Sheets for distribution to media outlets.

This will take a lot of legwork, but the beginning is here. Please provide what you know, with links or cites to a reliable source. Reliability and accuracy count here.

Please, all, don't bother to weigh in to tell us this will not work, or to explain what a waste of time it is, or to talk about how everybody should spend their time on Darfur or something. We're all here enough to demonstrate that this is actually what we care about, for better or (probably) worse. So rather than spinning our wheels, we want to take that same energy and focus it to an extent.

So: If you have links to the rulebook, the bylaws, the stories relating to the Jets or Dolphins' escapades, the quotes from Jimmy Johnson, or any other sourceable information, including quotes from significant figures, please reply here with the pertinent information.

Thanks very much in advance for your input into this project. We will make the board aware of progress as it becomes available.

PFnV

This is fantastic PFV! You're right, we need to be 100% professional in this effort. It will be all about facts and public relations. I really think you've covered the blueprint completely! Thank you!!!!

I'll be travelling this week and will have very little time to check in here. I just don't want anyone to think I've disappeared and not contributing. I'll check in when I'm able. Otherwise, I'm back in my office on Friday.

I doubt we'll need to, but this thread needs to stay at the top. So if we have to bump it from time to time, let's do.

PR

 

[tdw777]

Re: Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts)

For me, this is a smoking gun article.

#1. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227

It came out after the memo sent to NFL teams. The NFL was ok with sign stealing off tape.

I'm not sure what Belichick was supposed to think about videotaping after hearing the Steve Alic quote. and this "Despite the attention garnered by the story, most league observers dismissed the importance of whatever the Dolphins did and chose to attribute the shutout victory to superior execution".

I

 

[sieglo]

Re: Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts)

I wouldn't call this thing "Pats Fans for Truth". It just reeks of homerism.

Call it "Football Fans For Truth"

or better yet:

"Sports Fans for Media Responsibility".

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts)

I wouldn't call this thing "Pats Fans for Truth". It just reeks of homerism.

Call it "Football Fans For Truth"

or better yet:

"Sports Fans for Media Responsibility".

In this case, we need to put our pride aside and be open. I believe Sieglo is right in this case. No offense to PFV who has stepped to the front of the line in leading this effort.

I like;

"Sports Fans for Media Responsibility"

I'd like to add that if we do this right, this will get some attention. Are we going to have a spokesperson for this site? Don't be shy either. If you're good at it, just say so.

 

[Patsguy05]

Re: Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts)

For me, this is a smoking gun article.

#1. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227

It came out after the memo sent to NFL teams. The NFL was ok with sign stealing off tape.

I'm not sure what Belichick was supposed to think about videotaping after hearing the Steve Alic quote. I think it's reasonable to believe he knew he was technically violating the rules, but that this particular rule was one that even the NFL ridiculed openly to the media.

The other thing that gets me is that stealing signals is absolutely fine. It's only videotaping that's illegal. Wha? Absurd.


In this linked interview with Costas, Goodell gives his reasoning:

#2. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20891188/

At one point he slips up and says that, "The Patriots weren't using hi-tech means [as though if they were, it would be ok] they were filming out in the open." Goodell as much as admits they punished the Patriots for PR reasons.

Finally, the Jets admitted taping:

#3.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/12/12/jets-taped-patriots-in-2006/

Funny, the Jets claimed they received permission. The Patriots said they didn't live permission. The NFL said it was legal since the Jets had permission. This tells me Matt Estrella screwed up. He should have claimed the Jets had given him permission.

Even if they have permission it is still illegal. You can't make something legal by "giving permission" to do it. Its like saying "ok, today you have permission to facemask the whole game". Legal? No!

 

[Pats726]

I have a few articles on an Excel sheet from last year that I copied in and around Spygate..I am sure some are linked here..but I will be check to see if all are...One was Sando's article about QB to coach communication...GREAT idea though!!

 

[Pats726]

I have a few articles on an Excel sheet from last year that I copied in and around Spygate..I am sure some are linked here..but I will be check to see if all are...One was Sando's article about QB to coach communication...GREAT idea though!! (Why I susually do that is some papers remove the link after some time..so at least I have the article.. as an example, Curran wrote a great piece on HGH a few years ago and there was no way to find it in the archives..but I had it saved in another non linked form...)

 

[upstater1]

Re: Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts)

Even if they have permission it is still illegal. You can't make something legal by "giving permission" to do it. Its like saying "ok, today you have permission to facemask the whole game". Legal? No!

The NFL said as long as you have permission it's ok.

Look, it's clear the NFL makes ****e up as it goes along.

No wonder Belichick deliberately "misinterpreted" the rule. Everyone just makes it up as they please.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: The Rule that Bill Broke

Welcome to 5 months ago!

We'd love to have you join us as part of this mission richpats. I'm dead serious...I'm sure you'd have something to contribut to help us out.

 

[fgssand]

Re: The Rule that Bill Broke

We'd love to have you join us as part of this mission richpats. I'm dead serious...I'm sure you'd have something to contribut to help us out.

We invite all and need everybody.

Not looking to flame anybody, carry out boycotts, threaten any person or other such nonsense.

All we are trying to do is is provide accurate information and dispell misinformation, lies, innuendo, half truths and the rediculous or insane.

We simply want to set up a reference bureau of facts with actual sources.

Any and all are most welcome.

 

[richpats]

Re: The Rule that Bill Broke

We'd love to have you join us as part of this mission richpats. I'm dead serious...I'm sure you'd have something to contribut to help us out.

Well, since you all are interested in facts, my first recommendation would be to schedule Belichick for an interview and have him tell you every single detail behind sideline videotaping during his years with the Patriots. Why it was done, when it was done, how it was used, if and how it would provide useful information for game preparation, did it affect a coaching decision during a game, etc.

If by some miracle, you are able to get that information out of him, take all of this information and put it into a formal press release so that "the media" has every detail behind the videotaping practices of the Patriots under Belichick. This way, all the speculation that the media has done over the last 5 months will be irrelevant as they will have every single fact at their disposal and the speculation will end.

In the absence of details, the media will speculate. These days, the only "responsible" journalism is making headlines. That's a sad fact we have to live with, but "it is what it is".

 

[NYCPatsFan]

PatsFanInVa: Excellent proposal! Great way for us to do something to clear the muddled waters that most of the media seem happy to wallow in and sully our name.

My 2 cents: in addition to a fact-sheet, can we create a Q&A in simple English in which we raise all the questions that the non-Pats/Pats-haters might ask and try to address it?

Q&A can be an excellent way to address the accusations head-on and can serve to be a great sounding board to ask questions that many in the media seem to ignore.

Hopefully we can get a reputed media person like Reiss or Young to audit it before we email/podcast to everyone and post it on every website.

Thanks,

 

[cstjohn17]

I know this whole topic has gotten people all worked up but it sounds like a bunch of cry babies whining about their team. This is a generous description compared to what other NFL fans and writers will characterize your efforts.

 

[richpats]

Re: The Rule that Bill Broke

We invite all and need everybody.

Not looking to flame anybody, carry out boycotts, threaten any person or other such nonsense.

All we are trying to do is is provide accurate information and dispell misinformation, lies, innuendo, half truths and the rediculous or insane.

We simply want to set up a reference bureau of facts with actual sources.

Any and all are most welcome.

I admire everyone's spirit in support of Belichick and the Patriots, but some things can't be undone. It's a tragedy that the media has villified our team, but the Pats aren't the only team/athlete that has been put under that type of scrutiny. One lesson I have learned in my life is that you can never change someone else's opinion, even with the most obvious facts on your side. People are driven by their beliefs, and when something comes along that can prove their belief wrong, they can only rationalize why, but they rarely change their belief. Classic example - when we beat SD in the AFC title game, I saw a Charger fan write that "NE hid the cameras better that time". What can you possibly say to people like that? And believe it or not, some of those people work in the media.

 

[richpats]

I know this whole topic has gotten people all worked up but it sounds like a bunch of cry babies whining about their team. This is a generous description compared to what other NFL fans and writers will characterize your efforts.

I'll offer you an umbrella for the inevitable sh!tstorm coming your way. Here's a preview- you're not a real fan, you only care about the Pats image, etc.

 

[ivanvamp]

I know this whole topic has gotten people all worked up but it sounds like a bunch of cry babies whining about their team. This is a generous description compared to what other NFL fans and writers will characterize your efforts.

There's no question this is being done in large part as a defense of the hometown team. I don't see us going to great lengths to stick up for Mike Shanahan.

But then again, no team has been villified like this one has.....

 

[upstater1]

I'll offer you an umbrella for the inevitable sh!tstorm coming your way. Here's a preview- you're not a real fan, you only care about the Pats image, etc.

Great, in a thread designed to gather information, you two had to start your whining.

 

[richpats]

Great, in a thread designed to gather information, you two had to start your whining.

The whining began long before we jumped into this thread.

EDIT: I think Peter King put it best in his latest MMQB when it comes to the media and Spygate:

"It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that former New England video assistant Matt Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals."