Pats engaged in talks for Javon walker

[mgcolby]

Hmmm - perhaps I should try out.... I mean why NOT me? After all, most of the guys on the roster don't have too many more NFL receptions than I do!

I don't know how to react to that statement! Part of me wants to laugh while the other part says "Hmm, that isn't funny because it is true"!

 

[Remix 6]

they want a 1st rounder for Walker but might accept early 2nd from Saints or Broncos..guess hes not a Patriot

 

[maverick4]

re

I think the Pats have a GREAT shot at Walker.

I think Walker so desperately wants out of Green Bay and hates his back-stabbing drama-queen QB so much, that he will agree to reduced terms to play elsewhere. He won't suck it up and play for Green Bay this year; that was his strategy last year (have a great year, then re-sign) and it blew up in his face. Also, Green Bay is rolling the dice by holding onto Walker. He could be a divisive force in the locker room, or simply refuse to suit up.

If the Pats can get assurances that Walker won't break the bank, they could have a deal with the Packers that takes place during the draft. For example, what if Santonio Holmes is gone, and some great DL/LB's start dropping in round one... I could see the Pats making a phone call for Walker (for a third), and then using their first few draft picks on defense.

I don't think the Packers will get more than a 3rd or 2nd for Walker. There are several teams selling receivers (Lelie, Walker, Stallworth), and there are also decent receivers in the draft. If the Pats only had to pay a 2nd for Corey Dillon, who had a much longer history of success, than I find it hard to believe that any team would pony up a 1st for Walker.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hmm.. do I note a hint of sarcasm there? The Pats did try to sign Jurevicius and Finneran. Unfortunately, they got better deals with the Browns and Falcons, respectively.

I don't think the Pats are really players for Walker. Not because he wouldn't upgrade the receiving corps. But because of his contract demands.

I think that the Pats are focused on the draft and that their next agenda item is to get Branch extended.

No sarcasm - just genuine head scratching. And what I heard reported after the fact was they had no interest in Jurevicius or Finneran (as opposed to they got jumped on guys they liked or though they could get later in FA after the dust settled). That was the real surprising part. Now maybe that was Belioli spin, but who knows.

I also doubt they are serious players for Walker unless the draft compensation stays in the day 2 range. Although I remain convinced BB sees both Branch and Givens as excellent 2's - the type of WR Brady can easily get by with when the price is right barring injuries, yet he remains intrigued with the prospect of pairing his QB with a truer #1 if the price is right. Apparently last season he thought an aging (31) Mason fit that bill and he was willing to give him a little more than the 5/$20+M with $11M in 2005-2006 the Ravens signed him for as a FA. Maybe this season he thinks a 4th or 5th for a potential #1 WR with a team friendly agent is a good tradeoff relative to risk/reward.

I don't know - any more than you do. But I have less trouble discussing that there are remaining potential gaps in the roster, while you have less trouble dissing the opinion of others if it diverges from yours on most any topic.

Takes all kinds to fill a message board.

 

[bakes781]

I think the Pats have to show interest if for anything to up the anty for Miami. Supposedly the Phins are willing to swap their 1st in exchange for the Packers 2nd Round pick to get Walker.

 

[zippo59]

The Packers live in their own dreamland. I am so sick of talking about the draft. Lets talk about how moronic the GB organization is. Here's a look back at their most recent follies:

-With huge needs on defense the Packers chose to select their 2005 #1 pick on Aaron Rodgers, whose high holding style made him plummet in a week year for QB's. Keep in mind that Rodgers was mentored by the same coach as superstars Kyle Boller and Joey Harrington. It is one thing to go after a QB you are really high on, but the pick was really unnecessary. It's like they settled for him just because he was there. Furthermore the Packers hold the #5 pick this and will likely have a shot at either Leinart, Cutler, or Young, all of whom are better prospects than Rodgers, but the Packers can not pick any of them, because they do not have the cap space to pay two consecutive first round QB's and Favre. Green Bay's impatience has really come back to bite them in the arse this year.

-They higher for their new head coach the man who last year was the offensive coordinator for the worst offense in the league. Also when McCarthy was the QB coach in GB Favre had one of his wirst seasons, with exception to last year. Impressive.

-The organization bends over backwards and allows itself to get pushed around by an over the hill interception machine of a QB. While Brett Favre was stalling and with the organization doing nothing about it they lost the chance to go after vet FA QB's like Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, or even make a puch for Culpepper. To make things worse Favre began black mailing the organization basically saying that he would only come back if the team signed some expensive high profile FA. The Packers still would not cut him loose, in fact it is possible they signed Woodson because of Favre's threat. The Packers have spent so much time catering to that diva that I think it is going to be hard them to get players respect for a while. Also they have painted the picture that Favre is bigger than the team, which is not a good impression to give your players, to say the least.

-Javon Walker said he would rather retire than play for GB. Those are very strong words that a player does not throw around lightly, yet the Packers were still holding on to him thinking he just needed some time to cool down. Then when they finally entertained the possibility of a trade their asking price was a frst rounder. The is outrageous for a WR who had just one good season and suffered a serious knee injury the previous season. The price has come down to a 2nd or 3rd, but it is still mighty steep.

If can think of others please add them.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Samkon Gado. I'm pretty sure I remember that name from Lord of the Rings. Sure he's an able replacement for Ahman Green. But come 08, they'll call him back to the Shire, and Green's not getting any younger.

Okay, I am officially off my pre-draft meds and punchier than a draft prospect with a domestic violence rap...

PFnV

 

[maverick4]

re

PFnV, you are on a comedy roll right now.

 

[BayAreaPatsFan]

Its been worse !!

I know we desperately need a Receiver..

In 2001 the pats won the superbowl with WRs Troy Brown, David Patten, and Fred Coleman.

 

[mgcolby]

In 2001 the pats won the superbowl with WRs Troy Brown, David Patten, and Fred Coleman.

Ok, but that doesn't change anything. I remember when Hugh Millen and **** McPhereson were in New England, that doesn't mean I want to due that over again. We need another reciever, why is that even a debatable issue?

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, but that doesn't change anything. I remember when Hugh Millen and **** McPhereson were in New England, that doesn't mean I want to due that over again. We need another reciever, why is that even a debatable issue?

Its debateable because we do not know BBs opinion of what a WR corps of Branch, Johnson, Caldwell and Brown will do for him.
His actions so far say he is OK with it, but he has a lot of action left.
There is the possibility that he feels he is fine (Likes Caldwell, and believes Johnson is ready t cntribute big). That is not to say he does feel that way, but the draft will be a step toward determining it.
If BB does nothing and goes into the season with the WR group he currently has, I actually won't be upset because he has many resources to address it with. If he chooses to use none, then he is saying he is fine. Whether I agree with that or not its probably a 100 to 1 shot that I am right and he is wrong if we disagree.

 

[Pats726]

Walker will not come here...it's about money..and THIS is not the place to come if you want that...and I think it's highly risky to give GB even a 3rd for a WR that wishes to leave..has a large salary and wants more.

 

[rookBoston]

A couple of misconceptions.

First, the Pats aren't cheap... but they are frugal. BB has shown a willingness to open his checking account for players based on his personal evaluation. Colvin and Seymour are good examples of paying top dollar. Difference is, unlike other GMs, he is generally willing to let a guy walk if that player thinks he's worth more than BB does, knowing that there are a bunch of lesser, but more than capable, players that he can sign instead. Brady, Light and Dillon didn't get top dollar, but they all got "fair deals".

Second, just because there has been no action to sign a UFA WR doesn't mean BB is happy with what he has. This front office has shown a decided willingness to let players slip past them if other teams are bidding in UFA. Generally, the Pats will wait until the initial rush is past, partly because they are generally not going to get into a bidding war for a particular player. This explains their apparent lack of interest in Jurevicus, Finneran... they got deals elsewhere... despite the fact that the Pats were reported to have interest. They were interested, but preferred to let the players go elsewhere than go to the hard sell.

Walker's name first came onto the rumor mill around the time that Eric Moulds was a topic of discussion for the Pats. I think the Pats would be willing to pay either one of them. Moulds, of course, got his deal in the first rush. The rush is past us, and Walker is still available-- this is a promising development for any of us who'd LIKE to see him on the team.

Personally, I would pay Walker more money than I would ever have offered Givens, and I think BB would too. That's what talent evaluation is all about. It's not a Black and White decision: Good or Bad. Pay the Good as much as you can afford, Dump the Bad no matter what. Instead, BB pays based on value-- and Walker is one of those where the value and the pricetag might actually fit. BB doesn't discount players for injury in the same way other teams generally do. He takes a long view; the injury will pass with time and patience.

I still think it's a long shot Walker is coming to Foxboro given all the competition for Walker's services. But I do think BB/SP would take the possibility very seriously if Walker cant find a big money deal elsewhere.

For us, in a word, he's a fit... a great complement to the existing roster.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You saw the light...

I used to feel as you do, but such non-Kool-aid thoughts caused other Patsfans members to hold an intervention with me in various threads.

They've convinced me that we are well stocked at WR - specifically that Caldwell is actually a #1 WR - and that we can expect all our other WRs who averaged 4 catches last year to have career seasons (6 passes?)

CATS is also one of the best broadway musicals of all time.

JSP,

I'm glad that you have seen the light. BB is no fool; he has a budget for WRs within the cap and within the context of allocations among the various squads. That budget allows for a #1 WR and a #2 WR; he let a guy who was a very good #2 WR go when said guy, a 7th round pick without many more major upsides, demanded #1 WR kind of dollars.

Then he went out and got somebody elses slowly developing #1 WR candidate, who has been on the usual and typical 3-year development cycle only to have it interrupted by injury. He paid #2 WR dollars for this Reche Caldwell, a former mid second roound pick and expected to be a WR1 that high.

If Caldwell doesn't produce as he should, then all he is, is a talented WR1 underperformer, in a WR2 assignment. That's OK.

BB knows that there are some receptions that Givens got that were due to go to others. Brown didn't get his quota while concentrating on defensive snaps; Graham didn't get his quota, while staying in to block for Light's replacement. Caldwell has played only three years worth of games in four years and averages 25 catches a year doing so. Let the others each have 15 more each. That is all BB needs from the position, everything else is PURE GRAVY!

If Reche should return to his development schedule pre-injury, he becomes a WR1 at WR2 wages. Such a deal! Its a heads I win, tails you lose kind of bet that BB quickly accepted.

BB has subsequently ignored any other option presented to "upgrade" from the "desperate position" that fans perceive, to their horror and consternation. BB seems serene.

Why? Because he knows he can't lose and has already upgraded the WR2 position talent above where it was, whilst keeping to his budget.

Yes, Webber & Rice's's Cats is pretty good, but its too bad that they split up, Neither is as good as the pair.

 

[BayAreaPatsFan]

Ok, but that doesn't change anything. I remember when Hugh Millen and **** McPhereson were in New England, that doesn't mean I want to due that over again. We need another reciever, why is that even a debatable issue?

What do you mean you don't want to do it over again. The pats won the Super Bowl that year !! I sorta know where you are going with this, sure they may not be as strong a WR corps as the last couple of years but I think desperation is way to strong a word. I think 2001 proved that.

 

[spacecrime]

Ok, but that doesn't change anything. I remember when Hugh Millen and **** McPhereson were in New England, that doesn't mean I want to due that over again.

I wouldn't want to repeat those Millen/mcPherson years either, but I don't know why you wouldn't want a repeat of 2001?

 

[SamBamsFan]

Personally, I would pay Walker more money than I would ever have offered Givens, and I think BB would too. That's what talent evaluation is all about. It's not a Black and White decision: Good or Bad. Pay the Good as much as you can afford, Dump the Bad no matter what. Instead, BB pays based on value-- and Walker is one of those where the value and the pricetag might actually fit. BB doesn't discount players for injury in the same way other teams generally do. He takes a long view; the injury will pass with time and patience.

I still think it's a long shot Walker is coming to Foxboro given all the competition for Walker's services. But I do think BB/SP would take the possibility very seriously if Walker cant find a big money deal elsewhere.
Rook- I like where you are going w/ this thought. We have to find out what J-Walk is really looking for. If he wants to come join a championship squad that can compete every year for a Super Bowl, than we should talk w/ him some more. Last night I thought he was still rep'd by Rosenhaus, I was told that GB wanted a 1st, and frankly I wanted no part of it. Today, we hear that Denver is offering lelie and a second day. Miami is offering a second day +. These I offers I would compete w/, obviously depending on the salary demands for an extension. It never hurts to listen.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You saw the light...

I used to feel as you do, but such non-Kool-aid thoughts caused other Patsfans members to hold an intervention with me in various threads.

They've convinced me that we are well stocked at WR - specifically that Caldwell is actually a #1 WR - and that we can expect all our other WRs who averaged 4 catches last year to have career seasons (6 passes?)

CATS is also one of the best broadway musicals of all time.

JSP,

I'm glad that you have seen the light. BB is no fool; he has a budget for WRs within the cap and within the context of allocations among the various squads. That budget allows for a #1 WR and a #2 WR; he let a guy who was a very good #2 WR go when said guy, a 7th round pick without many more major upsides, demanded #1 WR kind of dollars.

Then he went out and got somebody elses slowly developing #1 WR candidate, who has been on the usual and typical 3-year development cycle only to have it interrupted by injury. He paid #2 WR dollars for this Reche Caldwell, a former mid second roound pick and expected to be a WR1 that high.

If Caldwell doesn't produce as he should, then all he is, is a talented WR1 underperformer, in a WR2 assignment. That's OK.

BB knows that there are some receptions that Givens got that were due to go to others. Brown didn't get his quota while concentrating on defensive snaps; Graham didn't get his quota, while staying in to block for Light's replacement. Caldwell has played only three years worth of games in four years and averages 25 catches a year doing so. Let the others each have 15 more each. That is all BB needs from the position, everything else is PURE GRAVY!

If Reche should return to his development schedule pre-injury, he becomes a WR1 at WR2 wages. Such a deal! Its a heads I win, tails you lose kind of bet that BB quickly accepted.

BB has subsequently ignored any other option presented to "upgrade" from the "desperate position" that fans perceive, to their horror and consternation. BB seems serene.

Why? Because he knows he can't lose and has already upgraded the WR2 position talent above where it was, whilst keeping to his budget.

Yes, Webber & Rice's's Cats is pretty good, but its too bad that they split up, Neither is as good as the pair.

 

[SamBamsFan]

JSP,

I'm glad that you have seen the light. BB is no fool; he has a budget for WRs within the cap and within the context of allocations among the various squads. That budget allows for a #1 WR and a #2 WR; he let a guy who was a very good #2 WR go when said guy, a 7th round pick without many more major upsides, demanded #1 WR kind of dollars.

Then he went out and got somebody elses slowly developing #1 WR candidate, who has been on the usual and typical 3-year development cycle only to have it interrupted by injury. He paid #2 WR dollars for this Reche Caldwell, a former mid second roound pick and expected to be a WR1 that high.

If Caldwell doesn't produce as he should, then all he is, is a talented WR1 underperformer, in a WR2 assignment. That's OK.

BB knows that there are some receptions that Givens got that were due to go to others. Brown didn't get his quota while concentrating on defensive snaps; Graham didn't get his quota, while staying in to block for Light's replacement. Caldwell has played only three years worth of games in four years and averages 25 catches a year doing so. Let the others each have 15 more each. That is all BB needs from the position, everything else is PURE GRAVY!

If Reche should return to his development schedule pre-injury, he becomes a WR1 at WR2 wages. Such a deal! Its a heads I win, tails you lose kind of bet that BB quickly accepted.

BB has subsequently ignored any other option presented to "upgrade" from the "desperate position" that fans perceive, to their horror and consternation. BB seems serene.

Why? Because he knows he can't lose and has already upgraded the WR2 position talent above where it was, whilst keeping to his budget.

Yes, Webber & Rice's's Cats is pretty good, but its too bad that they split up, Neither is as good as the pair.

I sense an ironical l point of view here...

 

[spacecrime]

We have to find out what J-Walk is really looking for. If he wants to come join a championship squad that can compete every year for a Super Bowl, than we should talk w/ him some more.

What he is looking for? He has made it pretty clear hasn't he? More money. He held out last year for more money, and nothing has changed that I can see.

He wants more money.

I know everytime some disgruntled player is available, people (not you) say, "Corey Dillon."

But Dillon wanted out becasue he was tired of losing. Walker just wanted to re-do his contract.

Anyway, he just doesn't seem like a BB player to me, but neither did Bethel Johnson, so what do I know?