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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    -A win is a win is a win. We have been saying that for 7 years, but some people seem to have forgotten. You get no more points for winning 56-10 than you do for winning 31-28. 11-0 is 11-0.
    -Is there any doubt the Eagles were MUCH better with Feeley than they would have been with McNab? McNab simply cannot make the throws down the field that Feeley made.
    -We have been the best 3rd down defense in the NFL all season long. I wont let one game tell me we all of a sudden arent good. The only issue with our defense was 3rd downs. That included 3 pretty long 3rd down TD passes. I am not concerned about our defense.
    -I hope that teams follow the 'blueprint' Madden was talking about. If there is one thing I can be sure of, it is that if you tell BB what the other team is going to do, we can't lose. Remember, this is still a game-plan based team, so I hope everyone tries to beat the gameplan we used last night, because we will be 3 steps ahead of them.
    -I thought the PI on Moss was a terrible call.
    -I thought Gostkowski made the kick.
    -Ellis Hobbs is a very good KO returner.
    -I think BB should draft a Devin Hester kind of guy to only return kicks. I supposed we will be trading down from the SF pick, so we will have more picks than spots for them. I'd like to see a great KR guy drafted in the 2nd-4th round, even if he does nothing else. Imagine the 2007 Pats, with Hester back returning kicks.
    -I cannot believe the Cardinals F-ed up our draft slot. They looked like they were trying to lose.
    -Brady is incredible.(By the way as of now he is on a pace for 5002 passing yards) (oh yeah, and 57TDs, with only 6 Ints) But I didn't like the gameplan last night. I was OK with it for the first drive or 2. But, what we really ended doing was allowing the Eagles to overplay the passing game. The sacks that happened were guys rushing the QB without thinking about the run. It was much easier for the coverages to make it harder on our passing game when their was no threat to run. I absolutely think that if you give me one drive, coming out 4-5 wides, no huddle, and throwin gevery down with this team gives you a great chance to score TDs, but over the course of a game, you are allowing the D to cheat to the pass and the pass rush.
    -I said just before the game, that this one may be tougher than expected. My thinking was Jimmy Johnson is a good DC, he likes to blitz, he has won a lot with scheme. He will do SOMETHING to limit us, and quite frankly with McNab out, the Eagles should be much better on offense. I said, 'not tougher that we could lose, but tougher that it may not be a blowout'.
    -In a game where our D had a poor night, where there D did some stuff to make it harder on us (which our gameplan may have contributed to) the difference was our guy doesnt turn the ball over, and their guy throws 3 picks.
    -I was surprised we didnt see more of Watson in the spread. Gaffney had a very nice game, but I think Watson adds something to that formation.
    -Just had a falsh of memory of a pass completion (I think it was a 3rd down) to Shobel, when the Pats blitzed and the S (Sanders I think) bumped and ran with Shobel, and Feeley, under pressure chucked it up. Shobel BLATANTLY shoved off of Sanders, as the ball was in the air. (Sorry, if details are fuzzy, just now rememebered this) If that was off PI how could Moss PI have ever been called.
    -It was very interesting listening to Samuel, Welker, BB, and Brady interviewed after the game, that each of them sounded like this was a loss. They all said a lot more "we need to play better" than "we won".
     
  2. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #75 Jersey

    Then why is one of the tie breakers Points Scored? :p
     
  3. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    - McNabb is on his last legs in Philly. Fans no it too.

    -You and everyone else

    - I didnt

    - Indeed

    - Belichick was asked this question by a reporter in the offseason. He said he hates having one dimentional players like that. Kind of thinks its a waste of a active player and it takes away from the game. Adding to much situational players for a part of the game. Compared if to LOOGY's in baseball.

    - I dont want a high pick and neither do the Patriots. This is a good thing.

    - Nuff Said

    - Egh, i watched it in high def went back and viewed that play. Sanders was beat, the guy never touched him and Sanders jumped up asking for a flag. Debating calls is useless both ways.

    - Welker: "I can see Belichick calling me over and hes the one man i take over you Andrea" All of them are set in place. Perfect.
     
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks Andy, a win is a win. The most important thing is the team continues to improve. The best team doesn't always win in the playoffs, the team that plays the best wins.

    Offensive gameplan - I think they were trying to mitigate the pressure schemes of the Eagles. It will be interesting to see how much they use the spread against the Ravens and Steelers, both are very good defenses. Against the Jets and Dolphins I suspect we will see more of a smash mouth style, both teams are so poor there is no real need to get elaborate. It may be part of the master plan to have confidence in various formations going into the playoffs. There has been wildly different looks both on offense and defense, provides a distinct game plan advantage in January.

    "we need to play better" maybe not better but they will have to improve. Like sharks to blood every team for here on out will be attacking the secondary. Most teams don't have an offensive line close to the Eagles (didn't the Giants get 8+ sacks against this same line?), plus Feeley was was really feeling it.

    Game over, time to move on, lets hope the injuries are only superficial.
     
  5. MetalBleachers

    MetalBleachers Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm not one to blame the refs, but three non-calls came to mind:
    • On the fourth down attempt by NE, Randy Moss was contacted illegally more than five yards downfield as the ball was in the air. No call, ball turned over on downs.

    • On the Eagles' second-to-last possession, 3rd and 3, Junior Seau blitzed and was held by Westbrook (you can see Westbrook behind him with his arm wrapped around Seau's waist). No call, pass completed, first down.

    • This didn't determine the outcome, but it was blatant: as James Sanders intercepts Feeley with 11 second left, the Eagles WR (Brown) grabs his facemask and rips him down to the ground. No call.

    If the refs are going to let guys play, great, but letting Moss get bumped downfield and then calling PI on him in the end zone made no sense to me.

    Dropped passes, missed blocks, false starts, loose coverage in the middle of the field. All fixable. Good to learn the lessons that a loss would have provided without actually losing. :)
     
  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You want the 49ers to win, and for us to get a worse pick? That makes no sense. I'm sure we are trading down. I'd rather trade down from 1 or 2 than 11 or 12.

    You must have watched a different play, on the one I saw the TE, absolutely shoved Sanders out of the way.
     
  7. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He is ABSOLUTELY thinking of a different play. The one you described, AJ, was a no-brainer push-off.
     
  8. patological

    patological Practice Squad Player

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    What's happened to to Kyle Brady? I don't recall hearing his name called since the bye.
     
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Andy - Its much harder to trade out of the #1 and #2 slots because of the money involved than it was 5 years ago..
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Its still better to trade out of 1 or 2 than out of 11 or 12.
    I dont think the money involved, compared to 5 years ago is such a big issue, if you look at it from a % of the cap standpoint.
    Your post makes it sound like teams don't want top 5 picks, where in reality they drool over them.
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The best strategy to trade out is usually to trade twice.
     
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Andy -
    Look at what Jamarcus Russell got this year. Look at what the other top 5 picks got contracts wise

    While teams "drool over top 5 picks", its about risk vs reward. And the money involved in a pick in the top 5 makes the risk that much greater. This isn't something that I've made up. There have been numerous articles regarding how a top 5 pick can make or break a team for years.

    I'd rather the Pats have the 5th or 7th pick than the 2nd or 3rd pick of the draft..

    Also, Kraft has said that the better value is in the middle of the 1st round.
     
  13. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yes, teams dont want to trade up into the top 5 unless there is a cant miss prospect.

    This draft doesnt have that top notch player that teams will want to jump up for.

    I think a pick of 4-8 is good for us whether we use it or trade it.
     
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Which is why we'd likely trade into the middle of the 1st, no?
     
  15. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats great and all. But who would want to trade up from the middle?

    Most teams dont.
     
  16. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I've always said you had a keen sense of the obvious, Andy. ;)

    I wrote on the KFFL Philly site that I thought that the McNabb situation is a lot like the Bledsoe/Brady situation back in 2001, where the older, more physycally talented QB didn't have the skill set to play the team's offensive system, even though, at the time, the vet was the "better QB".

    However whereas Drew was on his 4th OC in 8 years, which in IMHO accounted for some of Drews problems at the time, McNab has been in the same system for his entire career, soi he SHOULD be better. I don't think McNabb "failed", I just think he's been hyped to be an ELITE QB, when he was realy MERELY "very good".

    I agree, I think a lot of our 3rd down "inefficiency" had a lot to do with the scheme we played more than the personel. BB wasn't merely paying lip service with he said they had to coach better this week.

    I agree, BB proved he can stop "slants and incuts" against an offensive juggernaut. If he thought "slants and in cuts" were the major threat of the opposition, I have no doubt they'd do very well covering those patterns.

    The PHANTOM OPI calls are starting to piss me off. PI calls in general are pissing me off, even in game that don't involve the Pats. I keep see calls made MERELY because of contact, rather than the issue of whether the contact caused the player to be hindered in trying to make the catch. They are also calling to over and over again on passes that were clearly UNCATCHABLE. Did they do away with that part of the PI rule?

    I'm not so upset with the Ghost call. That is just too hard a call for the officials to make. The ball is high over the Goal posts and by standing directly UNDER the cross bar, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make the correct call. To do that they'd have to stand BEHIND the cross bars.

    Yes, Ellis Hobbs is a very good KO returner, and our special teams as a whole have been excellent. Hanson made a super kick out of our endzone in this game that was critical at the time.

    I TOTALLY DISAGREE with this one. Finding a guy like Hester or Cribbs is really a hit or miss thing. Did we think Hobbs would be a top guy when we drafted him? I think you have to fall into a guy like that. Maybe you take a 5-7 round pick on a specialist like that, but NOTHING befor that.

    Boy that was a shocker!. Now I'm hoping for a 4-12 record and a top 10 pick. Anything more would be gravy. Its a lot better than I thought we'd be getting at the begining of the season.

    I completely agree with this. I thought we stuck to this game plan very stubbornly, even when it wasn't in our best interests. I don't think we have be balanced in passing or running. BUT I DO think we have to be balanced in the POTENTIAL of running or passing. I would like us to run at least half our plays with the QB under center and a RB in the backfield. I would especially like this when its 3rd and 3 or less. Pass all you want Josh, but at least, by formation, force the defense to at least account for the possibility of a run and thus make your PAP game more effective.

    IF I'm a DC playing the Pats I tell my rushers to IGNORE the run possibilty to the way to the QB. Given the Pats recent play selection, you are going to be right a lot more times than wrong.

    Except for the one early sack, (BTW I'm starting to think that Kascur should warm up better or something, because the few times he's been beat, its been early in the game)l, I thought the OL protected pretty well against a tough rush. 95% of the rest of the QBs in the league would be THRILLED to have protection that good, game after game. This week's protection suffered mainly because of comparision with the unbelievable protection Brady's gotten the rest of the season. Last night was "merely" good. ;)

    Evidently the brain trust doesn't agree with you. While Watson add a kind of physicallity that you don't get with Gaffney, I'm surmising that Gaffney is a more polished receiver and more likely to be where he's supposed to be.

    Not surprised at all. That's been the mentality all along.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Teams who desperately need a QB like Ryan or Brohm. Teams that want McFadden. Or Glenn Dorsey. There will be plenty of "elite" guys at the top of the draft.
     
  18. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Hey finally someone who understands the value of a high draft pick.
    A high draft pick is better for two reasons - it allows you to command more in a trade, or it allows you to pick a better quality player.

    If you don't want to spend the money you can always trade down. Right now the Pats are slotted into the #4 spot I believe, which is still a pretty good value.
     
  19. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    Hold on, now, don't they have two officials standing at the goal posts? That's what I saw in the Baltimore/Cleveland game. In that case, why don't they simply have each official prepared to stand directly beneath each upright and look up, once it looks like the kick might be good (this would be on the backline of the endzone after all)?
     
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