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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by chevss454, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. chevss454

    chevss454 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  2. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Not a dream draft, a Nightmare draft. That draft doesn't address any of the Patriots immediate problems especially with high picks in that mock. Doesn't address the pass rush or the WR position................ NO THANKS on that one.
     
  3. chevss454

    chevss454 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm not sure about letting Burgess go. Who replaces him?
    At 48, I might go best available WR instead of CB.

    FA will have a lot to do with the draft picks. Walter or Bryant could fit at WR as FAs, I suppose.
     
  4. chevss454

    chevss454 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Austen Lane is the pass rusher and, as you, I'm not sure it's enough.
     
  5. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like it except they could take one more step and hit a grand slam. Sitting at #10, the Pats would be in striking distance from two true difference makers in this draft...Derrick Morgan and Joe Haden.

    If you were a couple of picks away from getting DeMarcus Ware, wouldn't you do whatever you could to get him? Well Morgan is that type of player (except a little bigger and not quite as fast). Morgan immediately makes the pass rush more dangerous.

    If they are unable to get Morgan, Haden is by far the most complete CB in the draft. Having a nickel package of Bodden, Butler and Haden would allow the Pats to match up effectively against the spread teams they need to beat to reach the SB.

    Either one of these guys makes a bigger difference than adding McClain. McKenzie still has an opportunity to earn some time inside and there are bigger ILBs available later if you want a thumper in the middle.

    If you are going to go big, go all in. Suh and McCoy would be too expensive but getting Morgan or Haden in the 6-8 range would be huge.
     
  6. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    I like the draft overall. Getting Dan Williams is key. Day one he's as good as wilfork. I know that won't sit well with some of you.

    I would like to see them drafting a dez briscoe or damien williams or brandon lafell instead of overdrafting austen lane. Those guys are proven gamers unlike say bethel johnson (scared of contact).

    I still think that Spikes is a poor man's McClain and he can be had a lot later.
     
  7. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    +1 ditto, "dream" of losing Vince? any draft scenario that does not come with at least one, and should be two rush ends is not good.
     
  8. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think getting rid of Wilfork is an option. If that were the case though, I would expect we'd entertain the idea of switching to a 4-3 and bringing in a top 4-3 DE like Peppers, or Kampman. So in this scenario, my "dream" would look like this:

    1) Trade Vince for a top 10 pick and trade up for Haden, a potential shutdown CB.
    2) Use the money saved on Vince and Bodden to sign Peppers, Kampman, AND Bullock (hey, this is a dream, right?)
    3) Draft best available skill player at 22 - I can't decide whether I want Tate, Gresham, or one of the RBs, but whichever one it is, Brady needs more weapons.
    4) Get some young front 7 help in the 2nd round - Misi and Spikes would be a nice haul.
    5) A pass-catching TE would be great, like Pitta or Ed Dickson.

    The rest of the draft is just gravy, though I do like the idea of improving the punting game.

    EDIT: In this scenario, I trust Warren Wright, Brace and Pryor could hold down the 2 DT spots playing alongside 2 all-pro caliber DEs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't accept the premise, but playing along I'd say it was an interesting draft with good player selection that failed to address my #1 ranked issue at WR - though Ford has some slot potential which could move Edelperson outside. C-
     
  10. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    A couple of tweaks and I am on board with this "dream draft"

    1.) Trade Wilfork to KC and take McClain at #5. Once McClain runs in the 4.5's at the combine, he skyrockets. KC could not stop the run last season because they desperately need a legit NT.

    2.) Dan Williams is NOT a 3-4 NT. He plays on skates. Change this pick to Mt. Cody.

    3.) Render is a joke. I wouldn't wish him on the JETS. Kick Kazcur over to OG and draft OT Ulatoski of Texas. A kid with size, experience in the zone blocking scheme as well as big game experience.

    I don;t see how BB can justify taking Hughes; if Hughes weighs less than 260 pounds and runs slower the 4.6.

    Ford is a great pick at WR. He may be small, but if he can get off the LOS, he can fly and he can get open.
     
  11. furley

    furley Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Yes, this is a pipe-dream. Would Denver covet Wilfork that much... I don't think Denver would select McClain. I recall an initial mock draft had Denver selecting Maualuga, and they didn't... So, considering that there's a need for a quarterback and a top wide receiver if Marshall doesn't resign. Wouldn't you think more of selecting Dez Bryant or Jimmy Clausen or Sam Bradford if either drops. I suppose you can take a chance and hope that Colt McCoy is still available in the second round. But, if you're Denver, you need depth at wide receiver besides Royal and Gaffney.

    Unless Denver targets McNabb via a trade, and resign Marshall. Regardless, I doubt they would do this deal for Wilfork.



    2010 Dream Patriots Draft
     
  12. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    Mt. Cody is garbage, a fat slob with DD breasts. Maybe EE. Yuck.

    Dan williams supposedly has the ideal build for 3-4 NT and was immovable at the poa all season and in the senior bowl.

    I'm a little reluctant to take another DT high after Brace. BB made his bed with brace, he needs to lie in it a while before getting another DT.
     
  13. mcmurtry86

    mcmurtry86 On the Game Day Roster

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl: How many rookie NT come into the league and dominate like Wilfork? Think back to the last 15 years or so, how many have you seen do that? Maybe 2? Even Wilfork himself didn't do that.

    1. You must not have watched a lot of Cody in college. The guy was awesome (not saying that will definitely translate to the pros)

    2. There have been plenty of fat slobs who have succeeded as NT in the NFL. Recent history you could look at Ted Washington or Grady Jackson. Wilfork has some man boobs and a huge gut himself. Looking terrible with your shirt off isn't necessarily a sign that you can't play the position

    3. The success, or lack thereof (so far), Brace won't play into Belichick's thought process. What will matter is how BB values Brace at this point in his development.
     
  14. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    for starters no one is giveing a top 10 pick for wilfork, theres only one al davis, if they trade wilfork it will be for a low #1 or a high #2


    and i don't buy that any rookie is going to come in and be as good as wilfork day one at NT. and i am not sure that Rolando McClain, will be that much better then spikes, who the pats can get in the 2th round.
     
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    Maybe you should watch some tape on players before commenting. Mt. Cody is the best 3-4 NT that the colleges have produced in a long time. Alabama had the #1 defense in college football last season including the #1 run defense.

    Williams was a 4-3 DT at Tenn. and that defense was not even a top ten defense with Eric Berry. Watch any film of Williams and the first thing you notice is that on running plays, he usually goes backward. Never happens with Mt. Cody.
     
  16. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cody is an immense (literally) talent. If I knew he was going to work 100%, I'd have him going #5 to Kansas City. He is that good.

    I thought Williams showed that he could anchor well at the Senior Bowl, much better than he could during the season.
     
  17. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Wilfork is better than any of the NT's in this draft, if Wilfork is on the block any team looking for a NT would trade their first for him. This isn't Matt cassel, this is a 28 year old, probowl NT. And your thought on McClain not being much better than Spikes...lol. There is a reason one is a blue chip prospect and the other is a early to mid second rounder.
     
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Wow...so much to comment on. I'm just going rapid-fire, responding to many to the comments as well as the O.P.

    1. I cannot imagine a scenario where Wilfork is not playing for New England this year, even if it's under the franchise tag. He is quite literally the best player, and the most important part, of our defense. I don't think the chances of him being a former Patriot are increasing by the day, I think there as close to nil as there is, and growing more asymptotic each day.

    2. Not only is Wilfork worth a top 10 pick in the trade market, he's worth a top 10 + another pick. I think some are underestimating how hard it is to find a 3-4 nose tackle. Buffalo is making the switch to 3-4 this year, and another team I don't recall.

    3. I think Ochmed is bang-on with Williams. He gets dominated at times. I just assumed he was dogging it on some plays, but maybe he's just not that good. I also think he's a pure 3-technique. He'd have to drop into the sixties before I'd take a chance on him.

    4. Cody is fat. That is indisputable. Wilfork isn't going to be on the cover of the Swimsuit issue anytime soon either. What is equally indisputable is that Cody is immovable by one man, and pretty close to immovable by two men. I'm a big fan of giving Vince something long term, then moving him out to end to take better advantage of his athleticism, if Cody is the best player on the board when we draft, and he might be.

    5. Moeaki can block. He's also slow. And relatively short, too. I'm not sure he'll run much better than 4.9. I doubt he'll help much in the passing game. In this area of the draft, I'd rather take Cottam, Dray, or Peek. I'd rather have Gresham or Hernandez earlier though. Bludgeoning Penn State and Wisconsin don't translate well to getting open against Indianapolis or Miami.

    6. I do like the Hughes pick, especially that low.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  19. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The first question that pops into my head on this is - what defensive scheme will BB be running in 2010? Is he sticking with the Classic base 3-4 or moving to something else. Makes a huge difference WRT what happens with Wilfork and who we draft if he's gone.

    The second question is, which team is most likely to do a trade for Wilfork? I think you have to start considerations with TB. It's a virtual consensus that they'll go for McCoy if Suh is gone (which is nearly certain). They have a ton of picks - even if they gave up that #3 overall and their 3rd for Wilfork (a proven commodity who would be wonderful for them, even if they're not running a 3-4), they still have two 2nd-rounders left and five more picks beyond that.

    The critical thing for me is, if BB really wants McClain, this spot is where he has to go because, as things stand prior to FA, McClain will not get past both KC and CLE.

    If BB is not interested in McClain or Haden or Berry, he might trade down for more picks. BUF, for instance, could be desperate enough for a QB to spend their #9 overall, the #41 and a 2011 second rounder to jump ahead of WAS. Mangini might even want to jump ahead of KC to be certain of getting McClain, trading their #7, #71 (3rd round, one of two) and #130 & #156 (5th round, two of their three).

    If there's not a guy at the #7 spot that BB wants, after this he'd probably be trading for 2011 picks mostly, since we'd have, at this point, 13 picks overall, including seven in the first three rounds.
     
  20. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Excellent Post sir! I have seen the coaches reports and comments that Cody makes the opposing Teams change their offenses. What other player in this Draft can say the same? No he will not be purchasing from the Victoria Secret "extra petite" aisle but I do not care what he looks like if he is a football player. Remember the Ravens playoff game and we needed a stop near their goal line and their O-Line that is decent but not great pushed our D-Line to Rte. 495? I think he and Wilfork in Tandem makes this D-Line immediately a major obstacle running up the middle on the Pats. Mayo will benefit the most.

    We get a pass rusher like a Peppers which we must consider spending for even if we do not want to (and Hughes a little later in the second) and a SILB like a Spikes (or bring in Antonio Pierce until they see how the McKenzie experiment works), take the Maroney for Cromartie deal if that is at all possible and sign Bodden and you have something of a major D-Upgrade in 2010.

    I would also explore the Chris Gocong trade in Philly. He was miscast as a 4-3 DE and more suitable for a 3-4 as stated. He has decent 4.7 speed and had a short shuttle better than Leon Washington in that Draft. He is 6' 2" and 263. Some have said SILB (think Teddy as in former DE in college) but how about the Vrabel role opposite Peppers? Philly will move him it has been stated. He is only 26. The Vrabel comparison intrigues me. He was a spectacular pass rusher in college.

    There! All fixed for 2010.

    I would rather exchange picks (#22) with the Skins so they can get a QB late in round one and take their #37 in the second and Chris Cooley as a TE option. What a great upgrade there and he is only 27. But the Cody comments were excellent.

    DW Toys
     
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