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Pats Defensive and Offensive Rankings Questions

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Wretch, Oct 3, 2011.

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  1. Wretch

    Wretch Rookie

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    I took a look at the stats today and I am wondering if the Pats defensive struggles are schematic, personnel, or a product of the teams they have faced.

    3 of the team the Pats have played are in the top 10 of the league in total yards, Chargers, Raiders and Bills. Miami is 16th. All of the teams in question have elite offensive players, Rivers and Jackson (SD), Marshall (Miami), Johnson (Buf) and McFadden (Oak).

    My question to the board is this are we, as fans too worried that the Pats D is giving up so many yards considering who the Pats have played?

    If the answer is no what are the culprits?

    I personally believe its a combination of factors, lack of secondary depth, new personnel adapting to a new scheme and to some extent injuries on the DL and now at LB. However the more I look at the Pats opponents and the stats I do wonder if we, as fans, are over reacting when we consider the quality of the offenses the Pats have played.

    On the flip side of this the Pats have faced only 1 top 10 defense, SD. Is the Pats offensive prowess overstated?
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  2. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Three of the teams the Pats have played are in the top 10 of the league in total yards because they played the Patriots.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    I am troubled by the defensive stats that have been given, but am encouraged by the 3-1 record... that is all that counts.

    When we get some of these guys healthy and we play with a full compliment in a system they are used to then it will be easier to assess.

    These stats mean little except for mediot talking points, lets see what things look like in the second week of November..
  4. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    LOL. The truth hurts. What struck me during the game, though, is how many young guys we have out there, particularly in the secondary. And we've been bit bad by the injury bug. They really only gave up 13 points when it mattered (although the last TD drive by the Raiders was maddening!) and they were pretty much able to contain McFadden, which Big Vince said was the goal of the game. I still have hopes that the D is young and in flux because of injuries and will get better as the season goes on, while our O continues to play lights out. I would give up on the Haynesworth experiment, though. He is a waste of a roster spot.
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    I don't care about yardage stats. They are overrated. In 2001, the Pats defense was 24th in points allowed giving up 334.5 YPG. The Pats won the Super Bowl that year.

    The Pats are 20th in points allowed. That is the stat I care about. Twentieth isn't good enough, but it is far better than the yardage stats.
  6. Patriots Nation NY

    Patriots Nation NY Banned

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    BB still thinks it's 1986 .. just sayn..
  7. fxkane

    fxkane Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    The stat rankings have some meaning, but the logic of each game is such in the NFL that stats can easily be skewed. Besides this, our bend but don't break defense means we will never top the defense charts... and yet be favored in every game we play.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Except Lawrence Taylor is not walking through that door...
  9. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions



    yards is a more or less useless metric in evaluating a defense in the modern NFL

    it truly comes down to points allowed & opponents red zone efficiency

    the pats points allowed is high.....i expect that to drop as the defense gets healthier and they get used to the new scheme

    they are already solid in opponents red zone efficiency


    people whine about the defense....but this team is 4-0 if brady doesn't chuck 4 picks against buffalo (and i'm not going to ***** about brady, by any means)


    there's maybe two decent tough defenses in the AFC right now....baltimore and houston.....both teams are good (watch out for houston), but are they better teams than the patriots overall? we'll see....


    even supposed "great" defenses are getting points hung on them this year....no OTA's, no contact in practice hurts....add in a new scheme, and the injuries the Pats have, and you see a 3-1 work in progress

    the only two real concerns i have with this defense are health and safety play....pats only have on nfl caliber safety, and he's better vs. the run than in coverage
  10. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Its a combination of all 3.They dont get no push on the defensive line.No pass rushing moves at all.I would killed to have DEs who can get to the QB.I wish the vikings would deal Jared Allen.They are going nowhere.I would give them a first rounder and a second.Whateva it takes.
  11. Sivy

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    who cares about Def stats...Pats are 3-1 and there is a good chance next week they will reclaim the top spot in the East

    YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.
  12. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions



    they get plenty of push.....the collapsed the pocket on campbell quite a bit yesterday, and they contained the run quite well.....plenty of stops at or behind the line

    sacks are a nice stat at contract time, but in no way shape or form are they (always) indicative of pass rush or defensive line play


    you have a line like chicago's, or a beat up line like the jets or steelers and you'll give up sacks....but a defensive front does not HAVE to generate sacks to generate pressure
  13. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Are u kidding me?You call that a rush?I am not asking for sacks.I am asking for the QB to be uncomfortable.
  14. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions



    did you watch yesterday? or just listening to EEI all day?

    considering the unit they had out there yesterday, i had no real issue with the D-line play - they game planned to stop dmac first, which they mostly did (one big run and yet he was still way under his season average), and pressure campbell.....he was flushed and hit well, and they only failed to contain him on one run
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    You've already shown that you don't understand that Campbell wasn't comfortable in the pocket yesterday. There is no sense in talking about it further because you refuse to listen.
  16. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Campbell played like Campbell.This team was opportunistic in creating turnovers.They got a huge gift from campbell with the int.The bottom line is that the raiders where in pats territory for much of the game.Its a joke!
  17. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions



    yawn....another fan that learned all he knows from madden....nice
  18. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Too many homers on his board.This defense has gotten worse under BB.They have become the colts of the 90s.
  19. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    back when you were in what, junior high?
  20. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Hey yukon u really sipping on that Kool-aid huh?
  21. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    nope, just realizing that i have a better grasp than you do of both the goings on in foxboro and the english language
  22. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    Your a blind homer is what u are.I am happy that the team is 3-1 but its a flawed 3-1.Lets see if u feel the same way after the season is over.I hope there's improvement on the defensive side of the ball but we will see.
  23. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Name one team that isn't flawed. Maybe Green Bay. Name one in the AFC. There isn't one.
  24. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    green bay has given up 97 points....new england 98....they are 31st in opponents pass yards (not a fan of that as a stat, but some are hanging their hats on it)
  25. Wretch

    Wretch Rookie

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    Ok a second look at the total yardage numbers yields the following information
    Miami:
    Average points per game: 17.2
    Points versus Pats: 24
    Average yards per game: 352
    Yards versus the Pats: 514
    SD:
    Average points per game: 22.8
    Points versus Pats: 21
    Average yards per game: 415.8
    Yards versus the Pats: 476
    Buffalo
    Average points per game: 33.2
    Points versus Pats: 34
    Average yards per game: 391.5
    Pards versus the Pats: 440
    Oakland
    Average points per game: 27.8
    Points versus Pats: 19
    Average yards per game: 407.5
    Yards versus the Pats: 504

    The Pats Defense is yielding significantly more yards per game than the opponents average and slightly fewer points.
  26. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    That aint gonna cut it.This team's defense has to get better.I still would take the jets defense, the steelers defense, the ravens defense over this defense.
  27. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is not a defense that will win games if the offense has an off day. Is that an understatement, or what?

    Put another way, if the Patriots offense plays like they did in the playoffs the last two years, does anyone have confidence that this defense can clamp down and gut out a 13-10 win?

    Statistically, the Patriots are a train wreck on defense. They need to hold teams consistently under 20 points. The Raiders were the first team to not score 20 or more. They should have finished the game at 13, but the pass defense let up a humongous play in garbage time. Good defenses do not allow other teams to get a whiff during garbage time.

    This defense is #3 with Plus-4 in takeaways behind Baltimore and Buffalo at Plus-7. (Pittsburgh is Minus-10 after four weeks - nice work, Ben!) The defense has taken the ball away 9 times or 2.25 takeaways per game. If they average two defensive stops per game with takeaways, the opposition loses opportunities to keep up with the offensive proficiency of the Pats. That's good. But they still cannot get off the field on 3rd down. Oakland went 8 for 13 on 3rd down yesterday. This has to get under 50% to be solid.

    Part of the yardage story is that the opposition is playing from behind and throwing on almost every down, so big plays will happen more frequently and there will be more possessions with no-huddle offenses, etc.

    But this defense is tremendous liability.
  28. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Part of the reason they are in the top 10 is the yards they have against us.
    Yes, people overreact to yardage, yardage doesnt win games.
    I think people UNDERreacted to the atrocious 4th quarter vs Buffalo, because it happened with the game on the line, but the other 15 quarters have not been nearly as bad as cumulative stats would suggest,.
  29. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pats Defensive and Defensive Rankings Questions

    Why did Campbell attempt to throw the ball away when he did? Because he was feeling pressure from the D-line and the CBs had people covered.

    Bottom line is that you keep making excuses to try and make people believe that the defense is beyond horrible when it's really only below average. People like myself have point to the obvious culprits on the defense. We've also pointed to the things that are actually positives about the defense.

    Wanna hear something else.. And this will probably cause you to blow another blood vessel. The patriots have shown improvement on defense each week. Even during the loss to Buffalo.. They sure aren't perfect. As I said, they are below average. But the team is 3-1 and the defense, despite the injuries, is showing itself to have some backbone. As seen by the Raiders only getting 2 TDs on 6 attempts into the Red Zone.
  30. D-Money

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    Below average,lol.And thats suppose to make u feel better about this defense?Improvements?This defense reminds me of last year's defense only that its worse.McCourty has regressed.I am still holding out hope that he will start playing like's he capable off.They still cant get off the field consistently.
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