Pats defense set?

[Kasmir]

I wouldn't conclude that he's necessarily a weak rush defender as a 3-4 OLB.

As a 260 lb 4-3 DE lined up opposite a 300+ lb OT, Burgess is going to be run at directly a lot in running downs, but should be effective in pursuit and of course have the advantage when pass rushing.

As a 260 lb 3-4 OLB, Burgess should hold the corner well against blocking but might see plays get outside of him sometimes. He might also be liability in early down pass coverage when the scheme requires him to drop back. In passing downs, he'll usually be a rushing down lineman, just like in a 4-3.

He's actually an almost perfect size for a 3-4 OLB; the question is if he has the agility to cover and tackle in space when it's required. And of course can he stay healthy.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

My whole shtick the past two years was to get a damn pass rush and the Pats may have found it in Burgess. In addition, the Pats improved their secondary which is a major plus. If Burgess plays anything like he did in '05 or '06, say goodnight. The reason I think he will get back to that form is because opposing teams have enough to worry about with Thomas and their massive D-line. In fact, Burgess should see a lot of one on one matchups this season.

 

[JoeShmoe]

My whole shtick the past two years was to get a damn pass rush and the Pats may have found it in Burgess. In addition, the Pats improved their secondary which is a major plus. If Burgess plays anything like he did in '05 or '06, say goodnight. The reason I think he will get back to that form is because opposing teams have enough to worry about with Thomas and their massive D-line. In fact, Burgess should see a lot of one on one matchups this season.

+ 1


Agree in full

 

[patsfan-1982]

the DL is the best in the NFL and the pats are deep at DL

the LBs if they stay healthy maybe the best LB core we had in a long time

but they are not deep at LB so the need to stay healthy

at S thats set

the starting CB is a ? but they are deep at CB and S so that should be better then last year


the big ? on D will be the LB

can AD stay healthy and start playing like he did with the ravens ?

can burgess get back to he's glory days and give the pats the passrush they need ?

can mayo put up the same numbers or better then last year ?


can guyton take the next step and be a full time starter next to mayo ?


we will find out soon

 

[pencilneckgeek]

the big ? on D will be the LB

can AD stay healthy and start playing like he did with the ravens ?

can burgess get back to he's glory days and give the pats the passrush they need ?

can mayo put up the same numbers or better then last year ?

can guyton take the next step and be a full time starter next to mayo ?

I'd add, can Seymour stay healthy and make whomever lines up next to him (Woods, Burgess) look like a beast, instead of putting in the sort of pedestrian performance they showed last year? When he takes all the attention of two blockers, it makes a huge difference, both for the outside pass rush and the ease of setting the ege.

Woods seems to have the grasp of how to do that, but I'd like to see him do a better job of shedding his block and bringing guys down. He had too many runners blast through an outstretched arm for my taste. The edge is a lot sharper when the runners actually have to avoid the guy who is out there.

 

[DarrylS]

Amazing how we have just about retooled our D... the D line has some minor changes, but just about everything else changed... suspect that BB was a tad upset last year with such a piss poor red zone D.. do not think it will happen this year... the depth is amazing.

 

[ausbacker]

Well all know what we are getting with the Offense save Tom Brady staying healthy. What excites me this season is the great unknown that is the Defense.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this unit on the field.. as strange as that seems.

 

[Marqui]

Burgess will be a DE in sub packages, and I think it is very doubtful he will see much action as an OLB in the base 34.

Burgess played OLB in a base 34 back in 05 when he lead the league in sacks (16). So why cant he play a similar role here?

And Im wondering if Kevin Carter is still considering signing here.

 

[Rob0729]

Burgess played OLB in a base 34 back in 05 when he lead the league in sacks (16). So why cant he play a similar role here?

It wasn't a base 3-4, but it when they did run it that year it was the Patriots' 3-4 defense. Burgess knows the system as well as any rookie would or any free agent who came in off the street in March. I don't know how AD could know it better with three months of offseason work when he got here two years ago or Mayo/Guyton could learn it as rookies any easier when Rob Ryan taught it to Burgess (even if it was for sub packages more than a base) for several years. Seriously, when you played the defense in games during his career even sparingly, it is better training than trying to learn it in the offseason in minicamps.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You don't think that Burgess can adjust to the 3-4? I suppose you think that Pierre Woods will be the starter in base 3-4 then? Whatever happened to Crable? He didn't get hurt again did he?

Question 1: They worked him as a 4-3 OLB in the Philly game, I think he can adjust.

Question 2: Woods started as a 3-4 OLB in the Cincy game across from Thomas. He platoons with TBC with TBC taking passing situations. Thomas dropped back with Mayo in 4-2 Nickel looks with Burgess and TBC at DE.

Question 3: Sprained left nut. He's icing it now.

Question 4: I don't know any other way to describe a left nut sprain other than an injury, except when it's PATSNUTme, spraining him is a net benefit to society.

 

[TheComeback]

For whatever reason, Belichick doesn't seem to think that Burgess is an every-down player. He may have some experience playing in a 3-4 package with the Raiders, but that's probably a far cry from being familiar with the Patriots defense.

That doesn't rule out a bigger role for Burgess in the future. However, for now, it appears that he will limited to blitzing on third down during passing situations. At least, that's all we've in TC. Woods and Banta-Cain may be more reliable against the run and in coverage at this point, if for no other reason than knowing the playbook.

Still, Belichick is very flexible about the roles players have. Look at Ron Brace, for instance. No one believed he could play DE in the 3-4... except Bill Belichick, who's been giving him reps there. BB is never afraid to ignore conventions if he thinks a player has the ability to adapt and get the job done.

I think the same can be said for Derrick Burgess. Frankly, I'd be surprised if we only saw him come out on third downs at 4-3 DE. That'd be a hell of way to let the offense know what you're doing.

I don't think we'd give up two draft picks just to have a guy come in a few times a game. BB will mix it up. I expect a bigger role for Burgess eventually--if he still has something to contribute.

anyway, i like this projection:

DE - Warren
NT - Wilfork
DE - Seymour

OLB - Thomas
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Guyton
OLB - Woods

CB - Wilhite
FS - Sanders
SS - Meriweather
CB - Bodden

NB - Springs/Butler (Springs could start if he were in mid-season form, but I don't see him staying healthy long enough to get there. Sure would be nice though)

Woods will sit in some packages for Banta-Cain or Burgess.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think butler will find his way on the field as the primary nickel back........he's already sharp with zone concepts......

Butler was the Nickelback for the Philly game, moving Wilhite inside while he covered outside. Wilhite looks to be the starter at LCB, though the Springs/Owens match-up may have BB starting Springs for the Buffalo game.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

DE - Warren
NT - Wilfork
DE - Seymour

OLB - Thomas
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Guyton
OLB - Woods

CB - Wilhite
FS - Sanders
SS - Meriweather
CB - Bodden

NB - Springs/Butler (Springs could start if he were in mid-season form, but I don't see him staying healthy long enough to get there. Sure would be nice though)

To date, Burgess reminds me of Vrabel last year - the spirit is willing, the mind is cruel and crafty, but the fuse has a longer run before it triggers the explosion.

A well reasoned base 3-4 line-up. I believe:
-- Green, Pryor, and Brace will see plenty of sub-packages,
-- as will Burgess and TBC;
-- Chung, and maybe McGowan will spell the starters and work in as Nickel/Dime Safeties,
-- while Springs and Bruschi will be called upon in specific experience-critical situations;
-- Randy Moss will play DB in the Hail Mary sub-package,
-- and Edelman/Welker may see garbage/emergency time at CB,
-- and Wheatley will regain his mojo and dazzle us;
-- and NE hasn't seen the last of Richardson and Ninkovich.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

-- and Wheatley will regain his mojo and dazzle us

Geez, Box. I hope so, because he's not looking as good as i'd hoped.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Geez, Box. I hope so, because he's not looking as good as i'd hoped.

He's also not looking as bad as the "Woe is Me" crowd would have it either.

 

[Patjew]

I'll contribute with my standard non-contribution and say, wow - that's alot of new faces.

Should be exciting to see how they progressively gel.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

i'll contribute with my standard non-contribution and say, wow - that's alot of new faces.

Should be exciting to see how they progressively gel.

1010101010

 

[Ring 6]

Burgess played OLB in a base 34 back in 05 when he lead the league in sacks (16). So why cant he play a similar role here?

And Im wondering if Kevin Carter is still considering signing here.

No he didnt.

 

[Ring 6]

For whatever reason, Belichick doesn't seem to think that Burgess is an every-down player. He may have some experience playing in a 3-4 package with the Raiders, but that's probably a far cry from being familiar with the Patriots defense.

That doesn't rule out a bigger role for Burgess in the future. However, for now, it appears that he will limited to blitzing on third down during passing situations. At least, that's all we've in TC. Woods and Banta-Cain may be more reliable against the run and in coverage at this point, if for no other reason than knowing the playbook.

Still, Belichick is very flexible about the roles players have. Look at Ron Brace, for instance. No one believed he could play DE in the 3-4... except Bill Belichick, who's been giving him reps there. BB is never afraid to ignore conventions if he thinks a player has the ability to adapt and get the job done.

I think the same can be said for Derrick Burgess. Frankly, I'd be surprised if we only saw him come out on third downs at 4-3 DE. That'd be a hell of way to let the offense know what you're doing.

I don't think we'd give up two draft picks just to have a guy come in a few times a game. BB will mix it up. I expect a bigger role for Burgess eventually--if he still has something to contribute.

anyway, i like this projection:

DE - Warren
NT - Wilfork
DE - Seymour

OLB - Thomas
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Guyton
OLB - Woods

CB - Wilhite
FS - Sanders
SS - Meriweather
CB - Bodden

NB - Springs/Butler (Springs could start if he were in mid-season form, but I don't see him staying healthy long enough to get there. Sure would be nice though)

Woods will sit in some packages for Banta-Cain or Burgess.

"Whatever reason" is that this is the best role for Burgess on this team.
His strengths and weaknesses are not a tremendous fit for what we want at OLB on 1st and 10 in our base D against opponent X. They are, however, what we want in our sub packages, which we use about 50% of the time; using them on 3rd down, on many 2nds, on first downs in score/clock situations, and on almost every down against some opponents.
Burgess will be stronger on the 50% of the snaps he plays, and the team will be stronger doing what they want to do in the other 50% that he is not on the field.
I dont know why this is a surprise or a concern. We went out and got a guy to help with the pass rush. That means he will play when we need him to rush. I'm sure he could earn more time by showing skills it is not apparent he possesses at this time, but that is still to be seen.
If we were better in situations where the other team is obviously going to pass (particularly the last 2 minutes of a half and game, and when we are ahead earlier in the 4th) we would have at least 2 more Championships.
I don't know why anyone really cares if Derrick Burgess is ever asked to make a single tackle on a running play as long as he rushes the passer, and when you add Wilhite, Wheatley, Butler, Bodden, Springs, Chung to the secondary that couldn't get that job done in the biggest game 2 years in a row, I cant understand how there could be any negative feeling about the upcoming season by any Patsfan.

 

[cstjohn17]

Burgess played OLB in a base 34 back in 05 when he lead the league in sacks (16). So why cant he play a similar role here?

And Im wondering if Kevin Carter is still considering signing here.

I think Burgess played mostly rush end, plus that was 4 years and countless inuries ago. The guy looks very average so far.

The Pats have all the players to be good on defense, I don't see them being 'excellent' but they may not have to be. Stopping the run is going to be critical, Jets, Ravens, Atlanta will all focus on a power running attack. The first few games could be a real tone setter, hopefully help the defense regain some of the swagger that seems to have been misisng lately.