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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TommyBrady12, Jul 20, 2008.

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  1. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Ok so i've been watching the replay of the AFC championship game. Did anyone else notice a big difference between the 2004 pats and last year's team? We were no where near as physical as we used to be. Even the chargers were getting to brady but were less successful than the giants. I think our country boys offensive line is overrated. It seemed like we could hardly run the ball against the chargers dline.

    anyone think we can be as physical in 2008 as we were in 2004?
  2. Keegs

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    i think the Pats oline was grossly overrated all last season.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  3. Disco Volante

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    #12 Jersey

    Brady had the second most drop-backs this season yet suffered the least amount of sacks in the league.

    Maroney had 3 consecutive 100 yard games starting from Week 17 to the AFC Championship.

    I still blame play calling more so than our line for the Super Bowl loss.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  4. Nordberg

    Nordberg Rookie

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    I have been saying the O-line is overrated for awhile now. The difference between a great line and an average line is a split second more time for the QB. I think most NFL QB's would be getting killed behind center for this team. I would be willing to bet that Brady avoids (buying time/getting ride of the ball fast) about 10 sacks a season that most others wouldn't.

    Just my 2 cents
  5. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    i think we've been getting by because the coaches do a good job masking the oline problems. it seems like the way we make our oline look better than it actually is 1) good TE blocking like Christian Fauria or Thomas and 2) quick throws by brady to open receivers before guys like strahan and tuck get there.
  6. cstjohn17

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    I didn't see the replay but at the time I thought it was the worst playoff game of Brady's career. As far as the O Line \ Play Calling \ Physicality all would have been forgiven if Harrison / Samuel or Meriweather didn't drop those picks.
  7. Deus Irae

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    Sometimes I think the people here forget that there are, in fact, other very good teams in the NFL. The Chargers were the second best team in the NFL last season, so it's no surprise that they played the Patriots pretty tough. Of course, had Brady not tossed that terrible pick when the team was down by the end zone, the game might very well have turned into a blowout.
  8. TommyBrady12

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    i just think we were very fortunate(read lucky) last year to go 18 wins without a loss. Our 2004 team would have killed the 07' team. We used to make teams pay when they rode into Gillette stadium. I don't know what happened. Age? No RAC? After watching the AFC championship replay, I don't even think we were the second best team last year. Chargers probably would have won if Rivers didn't have a torn ACL - they didn't lose by much. Giants, Chargers were both more physical than we were. Either that, we were just gassed by the end. But I felt the team was soft from September on.

    The good thing about losing the super bowl is that we can retool and go for a couple more championships in the next couple of years. We just have to get physical at the line of scrimmage, and we can go far. Trust me. If we won, we would have stood pat(no pun intended) and continued to play soft football for the next couple of years and without another championship. Now we have Jerod Mayo, Crable, Wheatley, Habson and others to help us get back to where we were just a few short years ago. I want this team not just to win one championship but to start our second dynasty.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  9. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    I feel dumber after reading your post. We used to make teams pay when they rode
    into Gillette. 10-0 last year wasn't good enough for you? Set a modern NFL record for
    margin of victory last year.

    We wouldn't have drafted Mayo,Crable and Wheatley had we won? I guess Belichick loves to not use his 1st,2nd, and 3RD round picks. I'm sure you can show me years where
    we don't draft anyone.

    Signing V.Hobson to justify a point? We've acquired better players after July
    1st than him. Like Junior Seau last year.

    149yds and 4.8 avg on the ground against a very good defensive front. Crappy, pathetic blocking by the offensive line. Do you guys know the difference between football and video games?
  10. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    listen jerk, we didn't make any team pay this year physically. if you read my post, you would have seen I was talking about physical punishment we used to impose on opposing teams, particularly in the playoffs. and yes, had we won, our drafting/offseason strategy would have been different. in case you didn't know, we lost the last two years on last minute drives against our old defense. we may have drafted a guy like aqib talib instead of mayo, since everyone was saying that was our most pressing need with asante gone.

    and who says we wouldn't have drafted anyone had we won? I'm just glad we can retool for the next few years and go back to being who we were. we're the new england patriots - we like to run the ball and play great defense. we're not hte houston oilers or dallas cowboys who were pass happy and softer.

    and victor hobson> junior seau at age 39/40.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  11. Patjew

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    Wow, you are just so wrong. If you really believe that, you haven't followed this team very closely since BB arrived, and/or have ignored how the team has continually tried to re-tool.

    Way to rationalize.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  12. TommyBrady12

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    you don't have to be so arrogant. it was just a thought. BB's drafting has not been that great the last couple of years so anything could have happened in the offseason had we won the super bowl. we have one draft pick on the roster from the 2007 draft. this year will be a lot different.

    suppose we won. do we still draft mayo? i would think we would have drafted a cornerback with the tenth overall pick. i think losing the superbowl will make belichik remember what won us titles in the past and hopefully he will lean that direction in rebuilding our defense. could care less about offensive records. defensive records? that's what i'm talking about.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  13. Patjew

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    Yes I do. It's genetic. But at least I didn't start off with "trust me" as if I was stating a fact and not just a thought.


    I think the brilliance of BB is he doesn't need these "wake up calls". And he definitely remembers more of what it takes to succeed than we can ever presume to know. He doesn't react to extremes, like most coaches do. Hence the dynasty in the first place.
  14. TommyBrady12

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    that's where you're dead wrong. we lost in 2006 because our defense was again soft and let the colts back in the AFC championship game. so what does belichick do? he goes houston oilers on us and gets moss, stallworth and welker, doesn't address the offensive line or linebackers (seau doesn't count cause he's like 40) or cornerbacks. he made us into an offensive jugarnaut all because reche caldwell drops an easy pass in the afc championship game? i love moss and welker but adding stallworth was too much last offseason. that money could have been used to toughen us up, particularly on D. then belichik runs the score up all season, tires out our offensive line and then they have no gas in the super bowl - what do you expect? the point is BB is brilliant, but he's not perfect. He needs to share some of the blame. ANd he obviously sleeps through certain wake up calls. he kept videotaping after the league memo, right?
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  15. Sivy

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    just my thought

    2004 patriots 20

    2007 patriots 38
  16. Patjew

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    Jeez, it's one thing to be wrong. But DEAD wrong? Ouch.

    You're right, nothing was done to strengthen the D last off season. I mean, it's not like they signed the best defensive FA. Because certainly they didn't sign A. Thomas last year to strengthen the D, specifically the LBs. Right?

    And I guess Stallworth wasn't signed BEFORE Moss to be the wideout the Pats so desperately needed. Again, WELL before anyone anticipated Moss coming to the Pats. Or maybe you're saying they shouldn't have signed Moss after they already had Stallworth and Welker. Right?

    But all in all a solid argument from you.
  17. Deus Irae

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    Last year's first round pick was a player chosen at a position with two established starters. Nonetheless, he was getting more playing time by the end of the season and playoffs, and may very well be a starter this season.

    Last year's second round 'pick' led the league in receptions.

    Last year's third round 'pick' set an NFL record for TD receptions in a season.

    Last year's fourth round pick is in the NFL, playing for the Jets

    Last year's fifth round (compensatory) pick is in the NFL, playing for the Jets

    Of the 4 sixth round picks the team had last year, Richardson is still with the Patriots and Rogers is with the Cowboys. This means that 7 of the team's 11 draft 'picks' are on an NFL team despite 8 of them being 4th round picks or lower.

    In the 2006 draft, the team had 10 picks. The following are still on the team roster:

    Maroney
    Gostkowski
    Thomas
    Jackson
    O'Callaghan
    Smith

    Andrews was cut due to the recent criminal incident. Mills is on the Vikings. Mincey is on the Jaguars. This means that 8 of 10 picks in 2006 are still in the NFL, and one of the two that is not was cut due to non-football reasons. 7 of the 10 picks were 4th rounders or lower.

    So, out of 21 'picks' in the past 2 seasons, 15 of them are still in the NFL, despite 15 of the picks being taken in the 4th round or later. Even if you take away the Welker/Moss 'picks, it's still a quality list of 13 for 19 with 15 of the 19 picks being 4th rounders or lower.

    How you can belittle that drafting is a puzzle to me. Then again, you think that drafting a defensive player with a reputation as a big hitter with the team's #1 pick, and signing the #1 defensive free agent on the market last season wasn't an attempt to "toughen" up the defense. Perhaps I shouldn't be puzzled given that....
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  18. TommyBrady12

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    well i did forget about adalius thomas but he had to switch positions this year so that's a bit of an adjustment for him. he wasn't as effective this year because of that transition, but i was happy they got him. that still doesn't make up for the fact that last year's offseason was so one-sided in favor of the offense. BB has to go back to his roots: Harry Carson, LT, Carl Banks type players. I wish he spent the last offseason completly retooling the D instead of the offense.
  19. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    forget about welker and moss. they were established players. i'm talking about actually drafitng of players. the only players you cite that made major contributions to the team are ghost and maroney. having those guys are great but we need to hit some more home runs in the draft. the giants won the super bowl last year at the same draft table that BB was at. every single one of hte giants draft picks contributed in that super bowl win. ahmad bradshaw, kevin boss, aarron ross, etc. that's the kind of drafting i want to see from BB. he's not a bad drafter, it's just that the drafts could have gotten a little stronger in the past few years. i am excited about this year's draft though.
  20. Patjew

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    The elephant in the room that you're ignoring is that if the O played at a level even CLOSE to how they did in EVERY other game last year, they would have won going the SB away. You do realize that the D you're *****ing about didn't allow a TD in 9 straight quarters in the playoffs, right? The D held up their end of the bargain. It's the offense that disappeared in Glendale. If you're blaming the D for the SB loss, I don't know what to tell you, except that impugning the D because of one flukey drive is very immature and reactionary.
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