Pats/Bucs postgame notes

[Urgent]

First, no injuries. Good news.

Cassel looked good enough, especially with third string receivers.

Faulk just played terrific. Flawless receiving, great running. Still a weapon.

I didn't learn much at all about the receivers. Washington? I don't know how you can project anything on him, based on a couple late plays. First, Moss and Stallworth didn't take the bus down. Second, they were throwing to the backs, at least early in the game. Also, with Watson, Thomas, and Brady all staying home, not much to learn about the tight ends. Mills failed to make enough of an impact in the spotlight - he was behind Rivers (who did look like Graham on one play in his #82 jersey.)

I thought the starting OL looked terrific. Great push, big pocket, lots of time, of course against a vanilla front. That was Nick Kaczur getting the start, by the way.

Tampa Bay put up more rushing yards than passing, but most of that was against the last string in the fourth quarter. Neither team broke 125 yards passing. Not much offense anywhere in this game.

On DL, Mike Wright was a monster. Big tackles, big pressure, big sack, great game. Santonio Thomas was probably the most impressive back-up. (Note that he's not a linebacker...) Kareem Brown showed some speed, coming around from the weak side to run down the running back downfield later in the game.

Where was Pierre Woods? Didn't notice him. Justin Rodgers looked OK, good pressure a couple times, picked up a fumble and made a lot of tackles. He may have done as much to make the team as anyone. Lua made a few hits downfield, but also read the play wrong and made the wrong first step, opening up the middle for a crossing route on the Tampa Bay touchdown. He didn't step up and stuff anything.

Meriweather was pretty much on the field for every play, at least on defense, mostly at outside cornerback. Welcome to the NFL, rookie, it's 108 and you're playing every snap in preseason. He showed good attitude, but not too many big plays, and was clearly being targeted. Gay looked good, and made some good plays against the run. Glad to see that Hobbs was not returning kicks. Richardson got a lot of looks at corner as well. Where was James Sanders?

On special teams, no Josh Miller. Baugher and Malone were both in positions to drop the ball inside the 10, but special teams always let the ball bounce in. As noted, Anam is an idiot. He not only ran down the entire field out of bounds, he ran outside the yard-wide white chalk mark. Good thing he didn't knock over a coach. Gemarra Williams had a terrific run-back, but I can't imagine he can make the team. He was returning kicks next to Willie Andrews. Gostkowski kicked one out of bounds, giving the ball to the Bucs on the 40 to start the second half, and edged in a 23-yard field goal.

Game went quick, but seemed sort of slow.

 

[patfanken]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Ray. I wasn't that impressed with Lua, but I was with Rogers, especially since this is his first experience as a LB, IIRC. He made a nice move on his sack (albeit against a RB) and set the edge well a couple of times. Just because a team runs successfully outside its not necessarily the fault of the OLB.

As I've stated on many occassions, its a 3 year process at MINIMUM to convert a college DE into a well rounded NFL OLB. What I saw from Rogers is the kind of instinct and ability that makes me think in a couple of years he could make that transition successfully. Certainly not a lock to make the team, but better than I expected.

 

[RayClay]

You may not know diddley, but you are one of my favorite posters. Rodgers got run around all night. You forgot to mention that Lua got faked out of his jock on the TB TD. In fact, the entire linebacking core just could not make a play. The Pats front generally holds their ground, but the LBs do not step up. Tampa threw over the middle at will as well. Other posters have been praising Meriwether, but I saw him miss tackles including one which would have been a ten-yard loss. The team to me just looked flat. I do not recall one truly hard hit or one pass deflected. As for Rcihardson, hhe had that pass thrown to him but dropped it. I can't believe the coaching staff would be happy with the team's effort this evening.

Well thank you very much. I'm humbled. I try to think "what is BB looking for" and of course I'm hypercritical of the young linebackers because I wonder about the future there.

To your other comments--I know the Meriweather play youir talking about and I'm of two minds on it. Seems like he blew a tackle. On the other hand he blew up the play with his quickness and allowed the D to catch up with it.
Penetration like that is disruptive on its own so I'm not reallycritical.

On the Richardson play, I have to disagree. He had great position and forced the receiver to play defense. It would have been an ESPN highlight had he caught it and the receiver was hacking away, while he was in a distorted position.

I don't use the name RayClay for nothing. He always made the D play first, interceptions second. Not like that fancy pants Haynes guy (although he was pretty good too).

 

[RayClay]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Ray. I wasn't that impressed with Lua, but I was with Rogers, especially since this is his first experience as a LB, IIRC. He made a nice move on his sack (albeit against a RB) and set the edge well a couple of times. Just because a team runs successfully outside its not necessarily the fault of the OLB.

As I've stated on many occassions, its a 3 year process at MINIMUM to convert a college DE into a well rounded NFL OLB. What I saw from Rogers is the kind of instinct and ability that makes me think in a couple of years he could make that transition successfully. Certainly not a lock to make the team, but better than I expected.

Doesn't someone have contain responsibility?

If the outside linebacker obviously moves inside and the running back goes for 15 yards with nobody outside, what else am I to conclude?

Somebody blew an assignment big time. Since I was staring at him and saw him move to the inside, I assumed it was him.

Talking about the 4th quarter, I believe when they ripped off some big gains.

Am I wrong when I say that in the Patriots defense, a linebacker who makes the play by leaving his area of responsibility gets chewed out?

 

[zippo59]

Not really. If you blow your assignment to go for the ball, you flunk the test in this system.

It's all about doing your job. You get negative, not positive points, even if you make the tackle, when you leave your area of responsibility.

I welcome other comments on this.

I totally agree here and think this goes without saying. But a young player in a completely new system will lean on instincts more to make up for their lack of knowledge of the defense. Sometimes this will burn you, and sometimes it will work. It is at this time where knowledge and experience are low where you can see more of the players raw ability and instincts, and I'm not saying he was great or anything, simply that he showed enough to intrigue me. The learning process is not always going to be pretty, and it sounds like your expectations for a low round rookie linebacker in his first game making the switch from DE might be a little too high.

 

[PatsSteve1]

I bet with Walt Coleman as the ref John Gruden was glad it was a preseason game.

 

[RayClay]

And this three year stuff is horse feathers.

Don't let anyone get outside. Let the other players do their assignments.

The reason it takes a while is they instinctively try to make a play.

It's simple. Execute your assignment and the coach won't blame you if the run goes inside you. You have to trust the coaching staff on that one.

Don't execute your assignment and you won't get three years.

Do you think they want to revisit the TBC mistake?

 

[RayClay]

I totally agree here and think this goes without saying. But a young player in a completely new system will lean on instincts more to make up for their lack of knowledge of the defense. Sometimes this will burn you, and sometimes it will work. It is at this time where knowledge and experience are low where you can see more of the players raw ability and instincts, and I'm not saying he was great or anything, simply that he showed enough to intrigue me. THe learning process is not always going to be pretty.

I agree 100%, that's why I say I was jumping to conclusions.

It must be funny to be in these camps when the rook was all over the field and thinks he was MVP. Boring Bill tells him he should have stayed here and not made that tackle.

He showed good athletic ability. Now, will the lightbulb go on? Will he trust the coaching staff and resist the urge to leave his responsibility and "make the play"?

I'm also convinced there's a graduate school on the BB defense where guys like Bruschi, Rodney and Vrabes are allowed to improvise and switch because they know the D so well.

Gotta walk before you can run, though.

 

[patsox23]

And this three year stuff is horse feathers.

Don't let anyone get outside. Let the other players do their assignments.

The reason it takes a while is they instinctively try to make a play.

It's simple. Execute your assignment and the coach won't blame you if the run goes inside you. You have to trust the coaching staff on that one.

Don't execute your assignment and you won't get three years.

Do you think they want to revisit the TBC mistake?

I know TBC didn't end up playing too well in the playoffs, but I hardly think what we got out of a 7th rounder, who played dirt cheap for a few years, constitutes a mistake. If we get semi-okay depth play out of Rogers at minimum price and he's good enough to make the squad for the next 3 or 4 years, that'll be fantastic? Am I hoping for more than that? You bet. But "mistake" seems strong there.

 

[Kdo5]

First, no injuries. Good news.

Cassel looked good enough, especially with third string receivers.

Faulk just played terrific. Flawless receiving, great running. Still a weapon.

I didn't learn much at all about the receivers. Washington? I don't know how you can project anything on him, based on a couple late plays. First, Moss and Stallworth didn't take the bus down. Second, they were throwing to the backs, at least early in the game. Also, with Watson, Thomas, and Brady all staying home, not much to learn about the tight ends. Mills failed to make enough of an impact in the spotlight - he was behind Rivers (who did look like Graham on one play in his #82 jersey.)

I thought the starting OL looked terrific. Great push, big pocket, lots of time, of course against a vanilla front. That was Nick Kaczur getting the start, by the way.

Tampa Bay put up more rushing yards than passing, but most of that was against the last string in the fourth quarter. Neither team broke 125 yards passing. Not much offense anywhere in this game.

On DL, Mike Wright was a monster. Big tackles, big pressure, big sack, great game. Santonio Thomas was probably the most impressive back-up. (Note that he's not a linebacker...) Kareem Brown showed some speed, coming around from the weak side to run down the running back downfield later in the game.

Where was Pierre Woods? Didn't notice him. Justin Rodgers looked OK, good pressure a couple times, picked up a fumble and made a lot of tackles. He may have done as much to make the team as anyone. Lua made a few hits downfield, but also read the play wrong and made the wrong first step, opening up the middle for a crossing route on the Tampa Bay touchdown. He didn't step up and stuff anything.

Meriweather was pretty much on the field for every play, at least on defense, mostly at outside cornerback. Welcome to the NFL, rookie, it's 108 and you're playing every snap in preseason. He showed good attitude, but not too many big plays, and was clearly being targeted. Gay looked good, and made some good plays against the run. Glad to see that Hobbs was not returning kicks. Richardson got a lot of looks at corner as well. Where was James Sanders?

On special teams, no Josh Miller. Baugher and Malone were both in positions to drop the ball inside the 10, but special teams always let the ball bounce in. As noted, Anam is an idiot. He not only ran down the entire field out of bounds, he ran outside the yard-wide white chalk mark. Good thing he didn't knock over a coach. Gemarra Williams had a terrific run-back, but I can't imagine he can make the team. He was returning kicks next to Willie Andrews. Gostkowski kicked one out of bounds, giving the ball to the Bucs on the 40 to start the second half, and edged in a 23-yard field goal.

Game went quick, but seemed sort of slow.

Woods & Alexander didn't play. I think I read on Reiss's blog.

 

[RayClay]

I know TBC didn't end up playing too well in the playoffs, but I hardly think what we got out of a 7th rounder, who played dirt cheap for a few years, constitutes a mistake. If we get semi-okay depth play out of Rogers at minimum price and he's good enough to make the squad for the next 3 or 4 years, that'll be fantastic? Am I hoping for more than that? You bet. But "mistake" seems strong there.

Since we're talking about holding the edge, I thought it was apropos.

I have no desire to bash the guy, but young linebackers in our system must execute assignments, not chase the play.

Don't get me wrong, they can faithfully execute assignments and still not be good enough to start, but being in the right place is a must.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Note I didn't see any part of the game.

1st half:
-I wonder if Cassel had some torn cartilage in his hip joint. He usually bounces up from a big hit like a jack in the box, and he looked shaken tonight. Was the plan for Gutierrez to play such extended minutes, or was that a reaction to a problem with Cassel?

Ordinary hit != ordinary hit when gassed in ~100 degree weather

If he looked like #%@#%(& in the 4th quarter on the sidelines, that might give me cause for concern, though.

 

[zippo59]

Anyone catch the Jets match-up, Kellen Clemens looked pretty sharp. 3 TDs.

Now you just know that as soon as Pennington falters Jets fans are going to be calling for Clemens to start.

 

[fgssand]

There is no way conclusions can be drawn about any rookie after this, their very first game in thee NFL..These guys were probably nervous with no clue what to expect as they experienced the speed of the game at this level for the first time. I imagine they played it close to the vest trying not make the type of glaring error that Anam did.

That's not to say one cannot be impressed or disappointed by apparent speed, instinct and presence on the field.

That said, I think Meriweather has "it". Rogers and Lua will be given every opportunity to impress. Richardson seemed to me to have earned more playing time next week then I would have thought going into tonights game, from watching him at practice, to me he played better than I thought he would.

I am satisfied that the season starts and we are on our way....


I think next week will be a true test for these guys as they will have all week to review their performance, get "coached up" and prepare for next week.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Before we get too down on Anam, lets remember he came over from Africa and wasn't the most polished DB to come out of college in this draft. The kid has raw athleticism and blazing speed, what he doesn't have is a Pop Warner to NEP playing resume, part of the knock against him coming out in the draft. I'm sure Coach Seeley will have all sorts of fun educating him on his error, and I'm sure few here expected him to make the team when he was signed as a UDFA. For now, chill, BB always uses this game as a training tool, young Mr. Anam learned something tonight, we'll see if he can apply it later.

 

[RayClay]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Ray. I wasn't that impressed with Lua, but I was with Rogers, especially since this is his first experience as a LB, IIRC. He made a nice move on his sack (albeit against a RB) and set the edge well a couple of times. Just because a team runs successfully outside its not necessarily the fault of the OLB.

As I've stated on many occassions, its a 3 year process at MINIMUM to convert a college DE into a well rounded NFL OLB. What I saw from Rogers is the kind of instinct and ability that makes me think in a couple of years he could make that transition successfully. Certainly not a lock to make the team, but better than I expected.

I'm kind of hypercritical about the young linebackers, because I really feel we need to develop talent at that position and we haven't spent picks there.

If this kid "gets it" and puts up that kind of production too we might really have something since I've been a Woods fan from the beginning.

Here's the play I saw and he knows he blew it. Sounds conscientious and sincere and he certainly moved around well for a DE.

I'll continue to be a "tough dad" until I see us with a full slate of replacements for our veterans and special teamers (Izzo) too.

Snipped from T-shirts post.

One area of concern for Rogers was setting the edge in the running game, a key responsibility for outside linebackers in the Patriots’ 3-4. He blamed himself for a 20-yard run late in the game.
“I should have set the edge on that play,” Rogers said. “That was one of the things I messed up. I really need to work on that.”

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/pat...format=&page=2

 

[AzPatsFan]

Izzo should be quaking in his boots.

There are a lot of ST/DBs and one might steal a ST/LB job. Woods looked good in camp, cementing his stay. Rodgers looked like he might be worth developing. Ignored by all, is that Rodgers had a very nice ST tackle as well.

Alexander was always a very good ST; that's why he stayed. Larry has to keep his job against Mays, and Lua and maybe Mills, and Mel Mitchell.

And ST coverage sucked last year. He was ST captain. His ST tackles have fallen off the last two years. He is 33. And he can't play regular snaps on D.

 

[DaBruinz]

You may not know diddley, but you are one of my favorite posters. Rodgers got run around all night. You forgot to mention that Lua got faked out of his jock on the TB TD. In fact, the entire linebacking core just could not make a play. The Pats front generally holds their ground, but the LBs do not step up. Tampa threw over the middle at will as well. Other posters have been praising Meriwether, but I saw him miss tackles including one which would have been a ten-yard loss. The team to me just looked flat. I do not recall one truly hard hit or one pass deflected. As for Rcihardson, hhe had that pass thrown to him but dropped it. I can't believe the coaching staff would be happy with the team's effort this evening.

OK.... I think you made some drastic over-statements. I watched most of the game and will be re-watching this coming weekend.

Rogers played very well. And to say he got run around all night isn't really the case because the Bucs were running at different spots on the line all night. Yet Rogers was getting over there. Which is a GOOD SIGN. If Rogers is over there when the guy is brought down on a run away from him (which happened several times) that means his pursuit is good.

As for Richardson, he didn't so much as drop it as the receiver knocked it out of his hands.

To say the linebackers couldn't make a play is just silly. Who caused the forced fumble? Who recovered it?

Now, you praise the D-line, but they are the first one who are supposed to be controlling the gaps so that the LBs don't get eaten up. Yet, on several plays, that's exactly what happened. The LBs weren't able to get to the ball carrier because someone made it to the second level and they were sprung for a long gain.

While Meriweather did miss a couple of tackles, the one that would ahve been a loss, wouldn't have been for 10 yards. Maybe 4 or 5, but not 10. Also, what was the result of that play? it was still no gain because someone else followed up.

 

[DaBruinz]

I bet with Walt Coleman as the ref John Gruden was glad it was a preseason game.

Did anyone noticed that they called the TUCK RULE during the game in favor of Gruden?

 

[DaBruinz]

One player that I liked was Quinton Smith. He had a couple of nice runs. And, at one point, they announced that it was Smith with the run back, not Williams. Yes, it was a mistake on the announcer's part.

Its going to be interesting to see how Smith continues to work out.