Pats bring CB Ty Law in for physical ????

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Does anybody agree with me? That even if his financial demands come down to a reasonable level, that a 33 year old Ty Law probably doesn't help this team?

Yeah, I do. But I've been wrong sooooo many times, I don't think you want me on your side.

 

[marty]

Put aside the price issue, because we all know he's not getting the guaranteed 14-16 mil. he's reportedly asking for.

Do you really want to judge Ty's likely performance in 2006 by what he did three seasons and a major injury ago?

This is a classic example of getting rid of a guy one year to early instead of one year too late. I'm not sold on Ellis Hobbs, but I'd like for him to get the chance. Have you ever been on an escalator going in one direction, and pass the people going the other way? That's Law going in one direction, and Samuel, Hobbs, and Gay going in the other. We have veteran insurance in Warfield that cost us a lot less than Law. I don't know why so many people here think that signing a guy with obviously declining skills is a great move for the franchise.

Does anybody agree with me? That even if his financial demands come down to a reasonable level, that a 33 year old Ty Law probably doesn't help this team?

You've said it better than I could have!:rocker:

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Put aside the price issue, because we all know he's not getting the guaranteed 14-16 mil. he's reportedly asking for.

Do you really want to judge Ty's likely performance in 2006 by what he did three seasons and a major injury ago?

This is a classic example of getting rid of a guy one year to early instead of one year too late. I'm not sold on Ellis Hobbs, but I'd like for him to get the chance. Have you ever been on an escalator going in one direction, and pass the people going the other way? That's Law going in one direction, and Samuel, Hobbs, and Gay going in the other. We have veteran insurance in Warfield that cost us a lot less than Law. I don't know why so many people here think that signing a guy with obviously declining skills is a great move for the franchise.

Does anybody agree with me? That even if his financial demands come down to a reasonable level, that a 33 year old Ty Law probably doesn't help this team?

Well, if the rumours are true and BB is showing interest in him then I'd say that the expert (BB in this case) believes Law to be of some value to the Pats.

Quite frankly, even if his elevator is going in the wrong direction as you suspect, I believe Law would easily be our best CB the second he steps foot out onto the field.

 

[smg93]

I'm for having Ty Law back. Aside from Harrison, none of the guys we have even approach the talent of Ty either as a CB or a future safety. 33 years old or not, he had more interceptions than all of our DB's combined. Say what you want about age and diminishing talent, the fact is, none of our younger db's last year was talented enough to even get near 10 INT's.

 

[dryheat44]

I'm for having Ty Law back. Aside from Harrison, none of the guys we have even approach the talent of Ty either as a CB or a future safety. 33 years old or not, he had more interceptions than all of our DB's combined. Say what you want about age and diminishing talent, the fact is, none of our younger db's last year was talented enough to even get near 10 INT's.

Okay, I give up.

Interceptions is the way to measure a Cornerback's performance. I admit it. Personally, I'd rather have a cornerback that doesn't get burned, doesn't get flagged for PI/holding, and isn't picked on by the opposition's offensive co-ordinator than one who does all of these things but has great hands.

This just in. Peyton Manning threw for more TDs than Brady did. Manning is clearly better.

 

[smg93]

Okay, I give up.

Interceptions is the way to measure a Cornerback's performance. I admit it. Personally, I'd rather have a cornerback that doesn't get burned, doesn't get flagged for PI/holding, and isn't picked on by the opposition's offensive co-ordinator than one who does all of these things but has great hands.

This just in. Peyton Manning threw for more TDs than Brady did. Manning is clearly better.

Give up if you want, but just because I have a different opinion then you do doesn't mean that you're the only one with the right opinion here. Why do you act as if you are the only one who knows everything about football? Excuse me if I have a different view on things. Oh wait, I forgot that the only measure of a CB is by how many times he gets flagged for PI/holding.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wow. That's not even close to accurate. I'd put him behind Barrett AND the two safeties.

In fact, he's no longer with the Jets partly because they have two kids in Strait and Miller who they feel can improve on Law's performance.

He's not with the JETS any more because they gave him that phony one year contract with the huge option clause and they couldn't afford to exercise it if they wanted to. They gave him a $4M roster bonus last December bringing his 2005 compensation up to $6.5M in the hopes he would renegotiate the remainder of the deal out of a sense of goodwill. That was their second mistake. The first was taking him on in rehab mode, although one thing you can never say is that Ty won't play hurt and still manage to be more effective than Duane Starks. BB values that capacity as it has been in short supply around here lately.

Ty will be signed for his talent. That talent is more easily realized here in this system. BB knows how to put Ty in a position to be effective without resorting to freelancing or relying on physicality. Teams that might sign him for his potential leadership are tilting at windmills as the JETS found out. We know he is not a leader, he's a performer. We have others to lead. We need guys who can perform.

He and BB have been talking all along. You've never seen that widespread rumor denied. Over the weekend Herm the Hugger again chose to say something snappy about Ty (the fish story quote) and that may have reminded Ty that Herm also hung him out to dry last November when an entire team was floundering. That is something BB never does.

It will still all come down to money. How much we are willing to pay vs. whatever else the Poston's are able to finagle out of any other bidder. Tennessee is out of it until they figure out the McNair situation, and even then with the #1 QB in the draft to sign they won't have much left to work with. In KC he will have Surtain's contract gnawing at him. Here at least he would be the highest paid and lone pro bowl CB on the roster. If Ty is back in shape 18 months post injury BB would most definitely be interested. And while it won't be for stupid money or phony money, and would likely include lots of incentive based money, it won't be for chump change either. We were willing to trade a draft pick for the pleasure of paying Duane Starks 2/$7M to replace him when we had a lot less cap to work with.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Okay, I give up.

Interceptions is the way to measure a Cornerback's performance. I admit it. Personally, I'd rather have a cornerback that doesn't get burned, doesn't get flagged for PI/holding, and isn't picked on by the opposition's offensive co-ordinator than one who does all of these things but has great hands.

This just in. Peyton Manning threw for more TDs than Brady did. Manning is clearly better.

I can't speak for the others but I'm not basing my desires to see Law back in a Pats uni simply on how many INT's he posted last season. Given how woeful our DB's were last year picking off opposing QB' (8 altogether - 10 team total if you include Vrabel's 2 picks) no doubt it's a factor that I value highly, but I want Law back because I think adding him improves our secondary considerably which should translate into an improvement in our chances to win the super bowl.

 

[TaxPlaya]

Why Not Ben Coates? Or Sam Gash?

Well, if the rumours are true and BB is showing interest in him then I'd say that the expert (BB in this case) believes Law to be of some value to the Pats.

Quite frankly, even if his elevator is going in the wrong direction as you suspect, I believe Law would easily be our best CB the second he steps foot out onto the field.

Too many people on this board are making fatal, losing-era mistakes. Ty Law isn't 1998-Mr. Wonderful anymore. He's old, greedy, and should probably be making a transition to free safety for less money.

Hell, why not bring back Ben Coates and Sam Gash? They were great for us in 1996! It has been two seasons since Law was helpful to us, and he's approaching his mid-30s.

He made the Pro Bowl last year? Sure. The Pro Bowl is a joke. Michael Vick made the Pro Bowl. You get into the Pro Bowl because of the market (New York), some eye-popping stat (10 ints), and name recognition (because of age). Bledsoe probably should have been in the Pro Bowl over Vick.

Get a grip, people. This is the "sane money" and "rational decision" era. No need to re-live the scummy past methods.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Too many people on this board are making fatal, losing-era mistakes. Ty Law isn't 1998-Mr. Wonderful anymore. He's old, greedy, and should probably be making a transition to free safety for less money.

Hell, why not bring back Ben Coates and Sam Gash? They were great for us in 1996! It has been two seasons since Law was helpful to us, and he's approaching his mid-30s.

He made the Pro Bowl last year? Sure. The Pro Bowl is a joke. Michael Vick made the Pro Bowl. You get into the Pro Bowl because of the market (New York), some eye-popping stat (10 ints), and name recognition (because of age). Bledsoe probably should have been in the Pro Bowl over Vick.

Get a grip, people. This is the "sane money" and "rational decision" era. No need to re-live the scummy past methods.

If BB felt that Coates and Gash could help his team win I'm sure he'd consider bringing them back. The fact that BB has never asked either to un-retire probably means he doesn't think they have a place on this team

 

[dryheat44]

Give up if you want, but just because I have a different opinion then you do doesn't mean that you're the only one with the right opinion here. Why do you act as if you are the only one who knows everything about football? Excuse me if I have a different view on things. Oh wait, I forgot that the only measure of a CB is by how many times he gets flagged for PI/holding.

I respect your opinion. It's simply that this is the third thread where I've had this debate, and I choose not to participate in the "He had 10 INTs last year which would have led our team, so he'd be our best cornerback" argument again. It's not personal. Your opinion, and others who share it, is certainly a valid one. I tend to view INT numbers as almost worthless when evaluating CBs in anything other than fantasy football. For me, it's 1) How many times does your man catch the ball or would have without interfering, 2) How much help do you need, and 3) What can you do in run support. I find Ty to be excellent in the last category, but sorely lacking in the first two. Some people believe that INTs are a good measure of coverage ability.

These people usually are the same ones that say Ray Lewis is the best LB in the game because he's made the Pro Bowl the last seven years. Valid opinion, but I disagree with it.

 

[Brownfan80]

Okay, I give up.

Interceptions is the way to measure a Cornerback's performance. I admit it. Personally, I'd rather have a cornerback that doesn't get burned, doesn't get flagged for PI/holding, and isn't picked on by the opposition's offensive co-ordinator than one who does all of these things but has great hands.

This just in. Peyton Manning threw for more TDs than Brady did. Manning is clearly better.

Until Ellis Hobbs stepped in our CBs were almost never close enough to get a PI call, so all I take from Law's penalties is "at least he was closer to the WR than 8 yards behind!"

I'm being partially tongue in cheek, but anyone that thinks that the play of our secondary last season couldn't stand some improvement simply wasn't watching. Ty Law is on his way down, but he's still higher than any CB we've got.

Ellis Hobbs has great potential, but he's not there yet and he's only one guy. Asante turned into Duane Starks for much of the season after Starks was benched/injured/whatever (he had a few Sportscenter big hits, sure, but in general last season his coverage was awful). Gay and Scott are question marks because of their injuries and lack of experience in our system and Hank Poteat has nothing but his Bongos. Who knows what Eric Warfield brings to the table.

If we sign Law it's a huge upgrade for us. He's got tons of experience in our system and his skills, while declining, are still higher than any other CB on our roster at the present time.

 

[BradyManny]

Does anybody agree with me? That even if his financial demands come down to a reasonable level, that a 33 year old Ty Law probably doesn't help this team?

We've always relied heavily on veterans. If we don't sign Ty Law, I think we have a good secondary. Hobbs, Samuels, Warfield and Gay make a pretty good and deep combination. I think Hobbs could become a #1 oneday, he seems to have all the skills. Samuels seems like he's topped out as a very solid #2 guy. But as for next year, I do think we basically have 4 number twos, which a lot of people say doesn't matter, and while I still think we could win the Super Bowl with four number twos, a number one (which I still believe Ty is) can't hurt.

Look at what we got out of Rodney, we've never been afraid of age (in either direction, of course). Everyone would move one back on the depth chart, meaning either Asante or Hobbs at nickle looks pretty damn nice.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Until Ellis Hobbs stepped in our CBs were almost never close enough to get a PI call, so all I take from Law's penalties is "at least he was closer to the WR than 8 yards behind!"

I'm being partially tongue in cheek, but anyone that thinks that the play of our secondary last season couldn't stand some improvement simply wasn't watching. Ty Law is on his way down, but he's still higher than any CB we've got.

Ellis Hobbs has great potential, but he's not there yet and he's only one guy. Asante turned into Duane Starks for much of the season after Starks was benched/injured/whatever (he had a few Sportscenter big hits, sure, but in general last season his coverage was awful). Gay and Scott are question marks because of their injuries and lack of experience in our system and Hank Poteat has nothing but his Bongos. Who knows what Eric Warfield brings to the table.

If we sign Law it's a huge upgrade for us. He's got tons of experience in our system and his skills, while declining, are still higher than any other CB on our roster at the present time.

Exactamundo.

And, for the benefit of dryheat44 , the fact that Law can also pick off QB's with the best of em, is an added bonus.

 

[spacecrime]

No one can sit here and tell me that adding Law wouldn't improve the talent level on this Patriot team.

Adding TO would improve the talent level. Javon Walker, Sean Taylor, Pacman Jones. None would inprove the team.

Dan Snyder is about collecting talented players. BBSP is about building a team

Not saying that Law would not be a good addition, just that there are more important criteria to the Pats than mere talent.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Adding TO would improve the talent level. Javon Walker, Sean Taylor, Pacman Jones. None would inprove the team.

Dan Snyder is about collecting talented players. BBSP is about building a team

Not saying that Law would not be a good addition, just that there are more important criteria to the Pats than mere talent.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Law is a known commodity to BB and the Pats brass. They know intimately well what Law can and can't do for team chemistry. If BB felt that Law couldn't help his team win then he'd not be bringing him in for a physical.

 

[spacecrime]

Ty Law belongs in a Patriot uniform. To my mind, with the possible exception of Mike Haynes, Ty is the best cornerback in Pats history - hands down. He deserves to retire as a Patriot and he will always have my respect. My favorite Law memory is the iconic image of him limping 70 yards to the house in the pivotal game against the Titans. Ty is the man!! Anyone who says otherwise is a damn fool.

And yes, I mean You!!

Ty Law WAS a great CB. He is no longer. It is telling that your best image of Ty comes from the 2003 season, his last good year.

All he can do now is free lance on defense, gambling for INTs, giving up htge big play gladly and the game if it will get him one more INT.

People who judge by stats love him.

I do enjoy your reasoning, though: Anyone who disagrees with my opinion is a fool. Pretty impressive logic, there. Too bad another guy also unable to back up his assertions already used this in this thread.

 

[PaulNEPats]

All I know is, the last couple years that we've supposedly been set at CB, we've had catastrophic injuries each time. It just goes to show you can never have enough depth in the secondary. If we can get Ty Law at a decent price, then by all means they should go for it.

 

[spacecrime]

This is a classic example of getting rid of a guy one year to early instead of one year too late.

Does anybody agree with me?

Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli make a good living doing that.

 

[spacecrime]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not comparing anything to anything.

You said,

Frankly, if the goal is to improve the talent level on the team, I'm perplexed why anyone wouldn't want to see Law back playing for the Pats

and my reply is that your premise is wrong. Sorry if I mis-stated. I was trying not to be blunt.

The goal is not to improve the talent level on the team. The goal is to build a better team.

My example was that Dan Snyder belives the two are the same. Snyder has shown that merely improving the talent level is pointless.

I also gave examples of players, like TO, whose acquisition would improve the talent level on the Patriots, but would not improve the Patriots as a team.

I did not and do not compare Snyder to BB/SP, or Law to TO.

Just giving examples of why improving the talent level on a team is the wrong goal.