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Pats-Bengals tape breakdown [merged]

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Box_O_Rocks, Aug 21, 2009.

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  1. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    I was looking for patfanken's first impressions 2 thread to post this in, but he's gone AWOL since the overnight server surgery. Per DI's request, I started with a fan favorite.
    12:20 2nd Qtr, NE recovers a Cincy fumble at their 40, Maroney comes in for Taylor:

    1st and 10: NE 2-wide, 2 TE.
    -- O'Connell and Maroney in the backfield.
    -- O-line Vollmer, Wendell, Connelly, Yates, O'Callaghan
    -- Baker in-line on the R, Smith in-line on the L
    -- Lewis R, Galloway L
    - Cin 4-3, CBs up near the LOS. This is still the first unit defense.

    Run, right side.
    -- Yates and Connelly combo the LDT, Yates hands off and blocks the MLB.
    -- O'Callaghan drops like he's in pass protection and waits to pick-up the LDE after Baker chips him.
    -- Baker chips the LDE and releases to block the LOLB.
    -- Lewis locks it up with the CB out past the numbers.
    -- Baker misses his block on the LOLB, who gets past him into the backfield.
    -- Maroney makes the LOLB miss outside, but he still gets a hand on Maroney to spin him around.
    -- Connelly had lost his block on the LDE who got there to wrap Maroney up, but not before Maroney turned his shoulders back and fell forward to the LOS.
    -- It was a slow developing play, Maroney was set up deep and from the snap to the time he was met in the backfield by the LOLB was 3 mississippi.
    -- I think the plan had been for Baker to downblock on the LDE, while O'Callaghan stepped back off the line, then lead Maroney around the edge. The LDE set-up on Baker's outside shoulder and went outside off the snap forcing Baker to release him to O'Callagan and try to block the LOLB. I'm sure Coach Scarnecchia will suggest a correction for this situation if they encounter it again.
    -- Kudos to Yates and Wendell for executing solid combo blocks and picking off the MLB and ROLB respectively. Lewis did a good job blocking the LCB. Yates gets an assist with Vollmer, the two were able to sandwich the MLB and RDT together. Please note Vollmer did not get around inside the RDT as quickly as Britt did in the Philly game when Wendell and Britt had that pretty combo - gotta be quicker big fella, but you stuck with your block and Billy bailed you out.

    2nd and 10: NE 2-wide L, 2 TE R.
    -- Smith is in a 3-point stance 1x1 outside Baker.
    - Cin 4-3, LBs are shifted R to the WR side and the LCB is in the box 1x1 outside the LDE and Smith's outside shoulder.

    Pass, short middle.
    -- Both WR went deep on the L-side clearing out that side of the field.
    -- Smith was forced inside by the LCB, but went straight up the seam sucking the LCB, the MLB, and the LOLB upfield.
    -- Maroney came through the line and camped under the LBs where O'Connell hit him on the dump off. Maroney then made the ROLB miss and got outside him for a 14 yd gain before the MLB and a DB could pull him down.
    -- Baker stayed in to block and did not need O'Callaghan's help with the LDE.
    -- Vollmer checked the outside rush of his man, but was beaten on a counter move to the inside, though O'Connell had a full 4 mississippi to release the ball.
    -- Wendell showed good hustle trailing Maroney upfield looking for someone to hit.

    1st and 10 Cin 46: NE I-form, 2-wide, TE R.
    -- D. Thomas in a FB. Smith out.
    - Cin 4-3, CBs six yds deep, SS 9 yds deep on Baker's outside shoulder creeping up in the box - I think it's a Cover-3 as the CBs are starting to creep back before the snap.

    Pitch out, FB lead off LT.
    -- Vollmer has a nice kickout block on the RDE.
    -- Wendell combos the RDT with Connelly and gets a seal block on the MLB.
    -- Connelly didn't get outside enough on the RDT and was ridden down the LOS to eventually close the hole for Maroney.
    -- Yates and O'Callaghan combo the LDT, but O'Callaghan never comes close to getting around him and getting control of the block. Yates releases to try and get to the LOLB but can't catch him.
    -- Baker cut blocked the LDE, slowing his pursuit.
    -- Thomas led inside Vollmer's block taking the ROLB out.
    -- By the time Maroney got to the hole Connelly had been ridden into the hole, and Maroney was unable to cutback as O'Callaghan had lost the LDT who got Maroney's legs and held him for the swarm. 2 yd gain.

    2nd and 8: NE 3-wide, 2 R, TE L.
    -- Baker 1x1 outside RT, Smith in the L-slot.
    - Cin 4-3 under, looks like a Cover-2 zone.

    Run, right side.
    -- Yates and Connelly combo the LDT. Yates stays on the block longer to give Connelly more time to gain leverage. He then releases and misses the WLB, who still manages to fall down and miss Maroney but I'm not sure who he tripped over.
    -- O'Callaghan turns the LDE out.
    -- Baker attempts to block the SLB.
    -- Wendell took the RDT away backside.
    -- Smith came in and got inside position on the RDE to cut off backside pursuit.
    -- Vollmer pulled and led into the right side 'b' gap meeting the MLB whom he wrestled to the ground, apparently without holding.
    -- Maroney had to tip-toe through and over Vollmer/MLB, Connelly/LDT who by this time were on their knees wrestling each other, and O'Callaghan who had been driven to his knees, but still had inside position enough to keep the LDE off Maroney. Once Maroney got through the hole he collided with Baker & the SLB, who was able to wrap him up enough until help came to pull him down.
    -- Maroney literally had to climb over bodies to get through the hole, bouncing outside was not an option, the hole got cluttered just as he got to it and he did the smart thing to keep moving forward and get what he could - if Baker had gotten control of the SLB Maroney could probably have doubled his yardage or better.

    3rd and 5 Cin 40: NE 3-wide, 2 L, TE R, shotgun. Edelman is solo on the R, Faulk to O'Con's R.
    - Cin 4-2 Nickel, man.

    Pass.
    -- Edelman motions inside to slot depth before the snap, delays after the snap, then takes off to try and draw coverage away from Faulk running a slide, the Bengals must have jumped Faulk because O'Con pumps and then looks for Edelman who appears to have run a hitch/stop or more likely, had to do a full wiggle, zig, and twirl to try and get open. Vollmer was beaten to the inside and O'Con is trying to roll away from the pressure and throws at Edelman's feet as he is getting tripped. Edelman does a great job of scooping, but is hit as he gets his hands under the ball and it rolls out - incomplete.
    -- Holding called on Vollmer, declined.
    4th and 5: Punt. Hanson with a nice back bounce at the Cin 4, ball downed at the 7. Penalty. Illegal formation, yardage is tacked onto the kick. -5 yds.
  2. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    I recall this play (or one like it). Maroney squeezed through a tight spot by hitting a small space pretty hard. The local broadcast showed an angle from the backfield that made it look like there was open space where (I am inferring from your analysis) Yates was chasing the WLB he'd just missed. Maroney hesitated and looked at this space, saw the WLB peeking out and charged into the point of attack instead. It looked to me that the cutback offered the possibility of the big play (or at least a comparable play if the WLB met Maroney in the hole with Yates on his hip and still made the tackle). Does a replay suggest LMo missed something there? I ask because I get the sense that he's thinking out there and staying disciplined perhaps to a fault, instead of running on instinct sometimes and that it's limiting his big-play potential. Am I imagining things?
  3. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    Well, that does it for me. Maroney clearly doesn't run hard enough. If we had BJGE in, he would've blasted right through Connelly's fat ass for 13 yards.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  4. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    I am working off the national feed NFLN rebroadcast featuring the Cincinnati broadcasters - how and why NFLN decided to use the Philly team the entire game away and the Cincinnati team the entire game from NE is beyond me, but I digress.

    I did not get an end zone shot of the play and cannot speak to that view, all I have is the sideline camera tracking the play - from that perspective I cannot see what happened to the WLB except that he fell down. The issue for Maroney was the SLB who made the tackle, he came from the outside with Baker in pursuit, Maroney actually plowed into Baker as the TE cut him off in traffic. I can't fault Baker for trying to stay with his man and block him, but it's frustrating to see Maroney on the verge of breaking into the secondary and be cut off by his own man.
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1st Bengals drive

    Kickoff: deep into end zone; McGowan beats block and first man down

    1st and 10: Bengals start w/ trips right but motion to FB and TE strong left; Pats show cover-3 late with Sanders low on LWR, Bodden high; Woods sets nice edge on FB, Guyton meets and greets LT to clog hole; Wilfork and Seymour clean up and collapse inside

    2nd and 8: Cover-1 – 2nd TE motions left to right, so Sanders drops back and Meriweather comes down; CBs press; 3-step drop and slant to Ocho, who faked Butler outside and then found open field inside; why? Thomas blitzed wide and Warren didn’t get a hand in O’Sullivan’s way after he got to him on the rush

    1st and 10: FB left, TE right vs. cover-1 w/ Meriweather on left slot; off-tackle run right; Thomas gets blown off edge and Butler slow to read run, so late on contain – FLAG: holding on RT – Warren had held his ground at POA, RT held when Warren turned around to pursue

    1st and 21: TE right, slot motion to LT; 4-3 wide-split blitz look w/ Burgess at LDE; TBC stands up after motion, Mayo and AD inside; either cover-2 or cover-5 (man under), but CBs pressed; inside trap play with RT blocking down on Warren – Thomas fills and kicked out by pulling LG – Mayo reads and fills to force Benson to cutback; TBC abuses slot WR to make stop on cutback

    2nd and 21: TE right, FB motions to TE left; 3-4 blitz look with Burgess at LDE, TBC at ROLB; Guyton and AD show blitz, Guyton backs off at snap; cover-3 with Meriweather down on RWR, Butler back; Burgess stunts inside to pick up RT, Thomas blitzes outside to get FB and pulling LG, Mayo comes free on delayed blitz in Burgess’ hole and makes sack

    3rd and 27: shotgun trips left; same 3-4 blitz look w/ Burgess down and TBC up – Seymour and Green inside; Butler in left slot showing blitz w/ AD in press – Springs at LCB, Sanders shows cover-1 but drops at snap to 2-deep; definitely c-2 with Bodden, AD, Butler, Mayo, and Springs in short zones; Seymour beats LG to hurry screen – Springs had released WR deep so ready for screen, but was too aggressive and whiffed on open-field tackle on Benson; Butler raced across field to contain

    4th and 14: OOB – Meriweather and Wheatley couldn’t contain puntside gunner
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  6. pencilneckgeek

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    I only saw the game through once, so my first impressions probably have the same sharp focus as a drunk looking for his lost keys under a streetlanp, because that's the only place he can look, but just the same:

    Players who made a good impression amidst a not-so-pretty game:

    Ty Warren - What a stud. Good to see him back. Pryor and Brace have looked good, but Warren is flat-out dominant. He completes the best starting D-line in the game.

    Darius Butler - He can change direction and close and has a nose for the ball. Great set of skills for the CB position.

    Hoyer - Kid got in his first NFL game and looked like an NFL player. Wherever he ends up, his next few years will be more interesting than a 9 to 5 job.

    Fred Taylor - He's still got it (at least until he gets banged up). Great pick-up.

    McGowan - Made some hard tackles, forced a fumble, was in the right place on special teams (on the occassions that I noticed him that is). Everybody has had him on their roster, it seems. Looked like he belongs there.

    Players that stood out as having a particularly bad day amidst an overall bad game:

    Wheatley - Got juked trying to close down a quick out for the second week in a row. Got thoroughly outclassed by Chris Henry. Picked up a fumble though. I'll give him the out-of-practice excuse one last time, but he's gotta improve next week or I'll start calling him names.

    Crable - Invisible other than getting beat downfield by the TE and then ambling about aimlessly while McGowan and Wheatley made the play. Hope he's not hurt.

    O'Connell - Looked like he was just going through the motions on that last drive. Running up the middle doesn't give you a chance to win. He needs to focus better than that, even if it means throwing into coverage on the sidelines, since that gives you a chance of winning.

    Pass protection - Went completely south on a number of plays.

    Alex Smith - Anybody home? That $1.5M salary is looking like an awfully tempting resource for the reserve/shadown roster/contract extensions.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks, Box. For me, the real shame about Maroney isn't even the fans posting on message boards. What gets me is the members of the media, especially the ex-players who should know better, taking the lazy route and just blasting Maroney instead of actually looking at the plays.

    We may need a sticky for an "Analysis of Maroney's runs" thread come the regular season.
  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AWTE may suggest we get Zolak someone to read them to him and explain the bigger words.
  9. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    throw in slater to the disappointment list. i can't imagine him being around much longer.
  10. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Rookie

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    The Cincy broadcasters were brutal. Based on their expert game calling, Cincy had a good night against New Orleans last night, but Marshall Faulk looked good for the Saints :rolleyes:

    I thought Brady looked a bit more jumpy in the pocket last night, and had several pressure-induced overthrows.

    I thought Slater looked good in the return game (in contrast to someone else's impression of him).

    Warren and Mayo had some nice plays on defense. Wheatley was giving me Ellis Hobbs flashbacks.

    Are the Bungles that shifty or did the Pats just have a bad tackling night? I can think of at least 5 occasions where a defender was juked out of his jockstrap on open field tackle attempts.

    Interesting stuff on the Maroney runs. It seems he never has much room to run; can't help but wonder if it's a scheme thing where defenders are selling out for the run whenever he's in the backfield.
  11. Synovia

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    I actually thought Wheatley looked ok. Receivers weren't getting a whole lot of separation on him, and it was taking good throws to get the ball to them. Didn't look great, but looked like he's just raw.

    That play where Ochocinco burned him for about 20 had the potential to be a huge stop, but he just over committed. Really good coverage though. Every completion isn't necessarily bad coverage.



    On the other hand, I completely disagree with you about Hoyer. I thought he looked terrible.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When I listen to Zolak talking football, I'm generally clued in as to why he never became either a great QB or coach in the NFL. It seems to me that 'prep' is not something he considers important.
  13. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    That whole commentary was horrible. And why on earth are they doing interviews with the game in a little square in the corner? So lame. I'd even say it was gay, but that would surely spark some controversial off-thread...
  14. pencilneckgeek

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    Check. More deserving than O'Connell, even if that last drive left a bad taste. Interference on the punt and then that kickoff muff where TBC held to spring Slater for a face-saving run that called back. Not a good showing. Somebody is going to have to return kickoffs, though. Until I see Maroney, Butler, Wheatley, or somebody else get some time in as the primary KO returner, however, it's hard to give away Slater's spot.
  15. pencilneckgeek

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    Re: Mods: pls merge w/patfanken's first impressions 2 when recovered - Cincy analysis

    Every completion isn't bad coverage, and 85 and Henry are certainly beasts to cover, but the pattern still needs to break.

    As for Hoyer, RFA QBs are expected to look bad, but he looked composed (maybe too much so in the sack-taking dept) and showed the ability to deliver the ball. I don't expect him to find a spot on the 53, but he looks like he's going to get a salary to play football for a couple of years. Can't complain about that.
  16. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1st Patriots drive

    1st and 10: 4 WR split vs. 4-3 OLBs slot, cover-1 look to 2-deep at snap; misdirection draw allowed Light to ride RDE inside; RLB ignored Welker and bit on Taylor unblocked – run that play again and you have Welker running free in the seam

    2nd and 5: shotgun 4 WR split vs. nickel c-1 (SS slot); LCB gave Moss cushion – Moss sat down underneath at FDM; 4-man v. 5 OL = rushed contained; Lewis danced around with RCB to keep him underneath; Welker got nailed by waiting SS Crocker when trying to release deep at 10 yds – FLAG: illegal contact

    1st and 10: shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-1 (SS seam); Light tried to cut the RDE but it turned into a wrestling match and Light failed to get him on the mat; RDT stunted inside – Mankins blocked down, then RLB came in on delayed blitz; Taylor released outside on screen but RDE was on his feet (after cut) and Brady had to throw it away – Taylor was about to get nailed by the LLB anyway

    2nd and 10: shotgun 4 WR split; nickel blitz zone – LDE drops, LLB blitzes, RLB shows but drops, SS blitzes; NB drops to 2-deep; screen to Welker – Lewis blocks out on RCB, Light gets free (RDE stunted) and blocks down on RLB; Welker avoids FS and picks up yardage down sideline until NB knocks OOB in backside pursuit

    1st and 10: shotgun 5 WR (3 right incl. Taylor) vs. nickel c-1 (SS seam, RLB slot); 4-man rush, clean pocket; Moss beats NB inside numbers and gets behind FS, but Brady just simply overshoots his target – would have been an easy TD

    2nd and 10: shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-4 look (CBs way off); OL slide protect right, Taylor in empty BP left; with RCB deep, Lewis sits underneath, then avoids RCB before RLB pushes OOB just short of FDM

    3rd and 1: shotgun 4 WR split vs. nickel over, RLB on LOS backside; OL hard blocks left – RG and RT cut; Taylor cuts back as designed, hurdles over trash and beats backside DE for FD

    1st and 10: no huddle, shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-4 look; Brady tells Joey to “move in a little” in right seam, moving LLB a few steps inside; Welker clears man outside, Moss deep; Galloway shadows Welker on out-cut and, because of Brady’s adjustment, has ample room to make a clean catch beating LLB

    2nd and 6: shotgun 4 WR split (Lewis inside, Welker outside in screen look) vs. nickel c-1 look (SS slot); Welker and Lewis execute off-snap screen technique, but SS doesn’t bite – Welker can’t get the separation he was looking for on wheel route; thinks he was held on release but ball was overthrown anyway

    3rd and 6: shotgun trips left vs. nickel c-1 (SS seam); both LBs blitzed inside – 6v6, Taylor picked up delayed RLB blitz; LCB was off before snap, then came up – wasn’t to press but to force Moss to an outside release; with ball on right hash, Moss had little room to work with, LCB jumped the route and broke up the pass

    4th and 6: Gostkowski 32-yd FG good
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  17. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    tom curran said brady's passes sailed over wide open receivers and he didnt step up and into his throw like usual and could be the mental thing people talk about. anyone notice it ?
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He looked as off as everybody else did, he didn't get enough reps for me to try and psychoanalyze him unless I'm drawing the big bucks Curran is and need to type something catchy for an editor's deadline.
  19. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mr Box scores again. :rofl:
  20. Box_O_Rocks

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    2nd and 10: shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-4 look (CBs way off); OL slide protect right, Taylor in empty BP left; with RCB deep, Lewis sits underneath, then avoids RCB before RLB pushes OOB just short of FDM

    "BP?" Did you mean to type 'BF' for 'backfield' or is this another acronym I should recognize and will feel silly about when you explain?
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