Pats acquire TE Michael Matthews from Giants

[Deus Irae]

WTF are you talking about, "disagrees with my analysis". I'm just defending Thomas for what I thought he was and giving you my opinion on why BB did it. I'm quite positive that you don't now why this move was made any more than I do. And I'm quite certain that if Matthews provides an upgrade on ST, that's a huge consideration for BB. We don't have a lot of LBs on the roster and I doubt guys like Burgess and AD will be playing on ST. So the backup TE has to by a good ST player.

And BTW, if you're a TE on this team, you have to be able to block and catch. There are no 2 ways about it. There's no such thing as an "exclusive" blocker or "exclusive" receiver. The TEs might have primary and secondary functions, but they have to be able to (and will all be asked) do both.

At Texas, Thomas broke school records for receptions, touchdowns, and yards by a tight end, as well as for receptions in a single game.

In New England, Dave Thomas: 3 seasons, 32 games, 21 catches

He was vastly overrated as an NFL receiver by a lot of people here, and he was a lousy blocker. I'm sure he was a hell of a locker room guy and liked to help old ladies across the street, though.

 

[Kontradiction]

WTF are you talking about, "disagrees with my analysis". I'm just defending Thomas for what I thought he was and giving you my opinion on why BB did it. I'm quite positive that you don't now why this move was made any more than I do. And I'm quite certain that if Matthews provides an upgrade on ST, that's a huge consideration for BB. We don't have a lot of LBs on the roster and I doubt guys like Burgess and AD will be playing on ST. So the backup TE has to by a good ST player.

I have eyes, and I saw what he was being used as. A blocker. Once again (is this the second time I'm saying this now?), he was being use EXCLUSIVELY as that in both the fullback and tight end roles meaning that's what BB was looking at him for. Or perhaps you can tell me his pass catching stats this preseason?

And BTW, if you're a TE on this team, you have to be able to block and catch. There are no 2 ways about it. There's no such thing as an "exclusive" blocker or "exclusive" receiver. The TEs might have primary and secondary functions, but they have to be able to (and will all be asked) do both.

Again, you're right. You should be able to do both. However, some are asked to do the other a lot more. Hence Daniel Graham being the primary blocking tight end and Ben Watson being the primary receiving tight end.

This isn't that hard to understand: Watson and Baker have proven themselves to be more valuable receiving tight ends than Watson has. Anybody who isn't blind can see that. This would logically mean that Thomas would have to step his game up and REALLY impress in the blocking area in order to make the team and be seen favorably in BB's eyes. Obviously, he didn't do that to BB's standards. Henceforth, he was released and BB brought it someone who is a better blocker than Thomas was and would be more useful in three tight end sets to open holes for the RBs.

 

[Kontradiction]

BB didn't cut Thomas. He traded Thomas to the Saints.

My mistake.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think BB traded Thomas because what Thomas brought to the table was matched and exceeded individually by Watson, who has been getting better as a blocker, and Baker. Aiken comes close to doing what Thomas was able to do at his best (rookie season). BB was able to take the 7th he got for Thomas and trade for a true upgrade as an in-line blocker. I do agree with Bucky that Thomas was a much better blocker (when healthy) than given credit for by this forum. He's in a good place to develop his career and BB made the team better by upgrading the blocking TE slot. win-win-win (Matthews on becoming a Patriot.)

Something else along that line of thinking:

Thomas:
Special Teamer - Replaced by Matthews
Back-up Long Snapper - replaced by Ninkovich
Blocking TE - Replaced by Matthews. Was the lesser of the three on the roster.
Pass Catching - Watson and Baker are better than him

Basically, Thomas, though a good player and had a lot of skills, those skills were redundant to what other players brought. And, in acquiring Matthews, BB actually IMPROVES the in-line blocking as you mentioned, Box.

 

[Ring 6]

Thomas was used as a blocking tight end, and that definitely doesn't necessarily mean he would still be a member of Patriots. He could both block and catch, however he recently hasn't been getting the blocking done. Like I recently stated, he provides more flexibility than Matthews who is a pure blocking FB type of TE.

When did he do all of this blocking you are talking about?
At best he was medicore as a blocker.
Where is his contribution in the passing game?
We have 2 TEs who are better receivers. The 3rd TE needs to block.
Thomas is a medicore, at best blocker. By all accounts Matthews is an extremely good blocker for a TE.
What dont you understand.

At least there is a good chance that Matthews wont commit a stupid penalty that absolutely cost us the Colts game, and therefore the playoffs last year. Syonara Wendy, your claim to fame will be the 2nd most harmful penalty in Patriots history. Of course the first was a bad call, and yours was stupidity.

 

[JSn]

I'm excited to see 3 TE sets with Moss and Maroney (or whoever) out there. Watson and Moss could blaze whilst everyone else keeps the blitz at bay...

 

[bucky]

At least there is a good chance that Matthews wont commit a stupid penalty that absolutely cost us the Colts game, and therefore the playoffs last year. Syonara Wendy, your claim to fame will be the 2nd most harmful penalty in Patriots history. Of course the first was a bad call, and yours was stupidity.

That right there is just sour grapes. It's not like Gaffney didn't drop that wide open TD pass in that game. Or the 3rd and almost 20 against the Jets when the LBs forgot to cover the TE and Merriweather couldn't tackle him. No, those plays had nothing to do with us making it to the playoffs.

 

[JSn]

That right there is just sour grapes. It's not like Gaffney didn't drop that wide open TD pass in that game. Or the 3rd and almost 20 against the Jets when the LBs forgot to cover the TE and Merriweather couldn't tackle him. No, those plays had nothing to do with us making it to the playoffs.

Agreed, that loss isn't on Wendy (alone). Still, I won't lose any sleep over him moving on to another team.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm excited to see 3 TE sets with Moss and Maroney (or whoever) out there. Watson and Moss could blaze whilst everyone else keeps the blitz at bay...

If there is a three tight end set, Moss would be the only WR in and Watson would be blocking along with Matthews and Baker since it's a 98% chance that the play the Pats are calling is a running play.

 

[Kontradiction]

That right there is just sour grapes. It's not like Gaffney didn't drop that wide open TD pass in that game. Or the 3rd and almost 20 against the Jets when the LBs forgot to cover the TE and Merriweather couldn't tackle him. No, those plays had nothing to do with us making it to the playoffs.

Gotta say I agree with this. I'm not sure how you can point to Thomas' boneheaded decision to block somone late as the thing that cost us the playoffs when there were so many other missed opportunites last season that killed us just as much, if not more.

 

[JSn]

If there is a three tight end set, Moss would be the only WR in and Watson would be blocking along with Matthew and Baker since it's a 98% chance that they play the Pats are calling is a running play.

Ya, I know Moss would be the only one. It's the 2% I'm excited about...

Incidentally, what percentage of the time would you say you invent statistic out of air and pixels? I'm going with 32.8% of the time...

 

[Kontradiction]

Ya, I know Moss would be the only one. It's the 2% I'm excited about...

Incidentally, what percentage of the time would you say you invent statistic out of air and pixels? I'm going with 32.8% of the time...

28.7% of the time. Though, seriously, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw this or any team pass out of a three tight end set. I'm sure it's happened, but I just can't remember the last time I saw it. On top of that, if the team does pass out of it, chances are that it's a goal line situation and Moss wouldn't be burning down the field.

 

[bucky]

I have eyes, and I saw what he was being used as. A blocker. Once again (is this the second time I'm saying this now?), he was being use EXCLUSIVELY as that in both the fullback and tight end roles meaning that's what BB was looking at him for. Or perhaps you can tell me his pass catching stats this preseason?



Again, you're right. You should be able to do both. However, some are asked to do the other a lot more. Hence Daniel Graham being the primary blocking tight end and Ben Watson being the primary receiving tight end.

This isn't that hard to understand: Watson and Baker have proven themselves to be more valuable receiving tight ends than Watson has. Anybody who isn't blind can see that. This would logically mean that Thomas would have to step his game up and REALLY impress in the blocking area in order to make the team and be seen favorably in BB's eyes. Obviously, he didn't do that to BB's standards. Henceforth, he was released and BB brought it someone who is a better blocker than Thomas was and would be more useful in three tight end sets to open holes for the RBs.

I don't disagree with you. IMO, Thomas has the potential to be the more complete TE of the 2. But he hasn't shown it in the 3 years he was here and I absolutely agree that he's behind Watson and Baker. Matthews is more along the lines of what this team needs right now. If Watson was to go down for the year, that may change though. The other thing I'm trying to point out is if Matthews was this incredible blocking TE, I'm sure the Giants would have found a spot for him instead of Darcy Johnson and a 7th round pick (presumably what they got from the Pats).

 

[Ring 6]

That right there is just sour grapes. It's not like Gaffney didn't drop that wide open TD pass in that game. Or the 3rd and almost 20 against the Jets when the LBs forgot to cover the TE and Merriweather couldn't tackle him. No, those plays had nothing to do with us making it to the playoffs.

Do yu dispute that play cost us the game?
That is Dave Thomas' legacy here, because the 21 passes he caught didn't exactly lead us to the promised land.
Sour grapes? The guy committed a stupid game costing penalty, and it is the most memorable moment of his Patriot career.
Please detail all the positives he brought so I can go to sleep tonight karmatically even toward his contributions to the team.

 

[Ring 6]

Gotta say I agree with this. I'm not sure how you can point to Thomas' boneheaded decision to block somone late as the thing that cost us the playoffs when there were so many other missed opportunites last season that killed us just as much, if not more.

There is simply no question we win that game over the Colts if he doesnt commit that penalty. They were incapable of stopping us, we were set up to run out the clock. The game was in hand, and he turned a 2nd and 1 (converted) into 2nd and 16.
Yes, I understand there were 100 plays in that game, but we win without that penalty.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't disagree with you. IMO, Thomas has the potential to be the more complete TE of the 2. But he hasn't shown it in the 3 years he was here and I absolutely agree that he's behind Watson and Baker. Matthews is more along the lines of what this team needs right now. If Watson was to go down for the year, that may change though. The other thing I'm trying to point out is if Matthews was this incredible blocking TE, I'm sure the Giants would have found a spot for him instead of Darcy Johnson and a 7th round pick (presumably what they got from the Pats).

The Giants have possibly the best offensive line in all of football. They're concentrating on developing pass catching tight ends to go along with the threat they have in Kevin Boss (that son of a *****).

 

[Ring 6]

28.7% of the time. Though, seriously, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw this or any team pass out of a three tight end set. I'm sure it's happened, but I just can't remember the last time I saw it. On top of that, if the team does pass out of it, chances are that it's a goal line situation and Moss wouldn't be burning down the field.

All of Vrabels TDs, but you were talking about throwing down the field mostly. We do it alot on the goalline, and Moss catches them too. But from the 40? Nah.

 

[patriot lifer]

Let's remember that NYG disposed of Matthews the same way BB disposed of Thomas and if you go on their board (which I'm not about to do), you'll probably find a bunch of people badmouthing him.

The other thing I'm trying to point out is if Matthews was this incredible blocking TE, I'm sure the Giants would have found a spot for him instead of Darcy Johnson and a 7th round pick (presumably what they got from the Pats).

sorry to pile on, but on the Giants' boards i've glanced through, they've had positive things to say about the guy. it's just that they have a lot of depth on the team with 3 other quality TE's

 

[Kontradiction]

All of Vrabels TDs, but you were talking about throwing down the field mostly. We do it alot on the goalline, and Moss catches them too. But from the 40? Nah.

The thought of Vrabel's last receiving TD (was it '07 or '06?) did come to mind but I didn't want to speak on it for fear of being made fun of or being called an idiot.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't disagree with you. IMO, Thomas has the potential to be the more complete TE of the 2. But he hasn't shown it in the 3 years he was here and I absolutely agree that he's behind Watson and Baker. Matthews is more along the lines of what this team needs right now. If Watson was to go down for the year, that may change though. The other thing I'm trying to point out is if Matthews was this incredible blocking TE, I'm sure the Giants would have found a spot for him instead of Darcy Johnson and a 7th round pick (presumably what they got from the Pats).

Good point buried in there.
We do not need the best 53 players, but the 53 that play best together.
We have 2 versatile TEs who are better receievers than blockers.
A versatile TE who is a complete player but not as good as those 2, is worth a lot less to us than an excellent blocker with stone hands who will never be a complete player.
Somehow this thread seems to be comparing the 2 guys as who would be better as the only TE on your roster, and ignoring the role they would fill.