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Patriots WR 2014 firepower

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatFanCraig, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. PatFanCraig

    PatFanCraig Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    We all know I'm a big fan of Kenbrell,his extreme work ethic,obsession for more speed/explosion/flexibility,and his potential. I know its just ota/minicamp/early training camp buts its encouraging to see he is consistently standing out and making bigger type plays. We have heard how he and his cousin Antonio Brown have Jerry Rice work ethics,especially Kenbrell who knew he had to get as fast/explosive/impressive as he can being an UFA. Antonio acknowledges his new age workout technique and hard training was the major factor in his breakout. Kenbrell made some nice flashes for a very raw rookie and we hope so far is just the start of how good he will look on the field and the hard work is paying off. Antonio acknowledged Kenbrell had more ability than he did to begin with. I don't think its unrealistic to think Kenbrell could have a breakout somewhat close to Browns. Reporters and coaches alike say he appears faster and quicker than last season with more confidence in his hands.

    This isn't just about KT of course. Dobson showed some very nice deep second gear speed when he pulled away from 2 steelers DBs including Taylor. He showed very good overall ability to get open and separate both deep and intermediate. He showed very sudden breaks and burst as well as dynamic leaping and diving adjustments to the ball. If he didn't have rookie jitters and held onto some if those leaping/diving catches his rookie production would standout and the NFL would be expecting a big year 2 from him in the way of Keenan Allen. While Dobson usually makes those big catches seem routine,it was probably rookie nerves. You can't call his hands shaky because those were not checkdown or 7/8 route drops. But still he is known to make those catches which is exciting because the experience and confidence he will add and then will make those kind of big tough plays seem routine. That's now 2 WRs that could realistically be consistent playmakers intermediate and deep or outside hash along the sideline.

    As consistent as Edelman was last year and we expect at least 80 catches from him this year of the chain moving variety that's slightly undervalued. It would be an improvement to our offense overall if Boyce shows enough progress to win some snaps in the slot. His big time speed and explosion could exploit defenses and take them out of rhythm trying to defend his big play deep speed ability from the slot. Some big plays out of the slot would be a real weapon for us and disrupt the defense or put them on their heels. Trying to defend the speed and playmaking ability of Dobson/KT/Boyce iplaymatype/Gronk/Vereens speed and pass catching talent out of the backfield is some serious speed/size/explosiveness/playmaking ability to rock defenses on their heels and strike some fear in them.

    The potential of the best TE ever, one of the best pass catching RB threats with speed and ability as a RB as well, an established and ready Dobson to make consistent big plays and speed to burn a defense for a TD on any play. The realistic possibility that KT could step up as well and be anything close to his cousin and Boyce could be as feared a big play threat there is in the NFL from the slot. The shorter types of routes will be there for him all because the fear he goes deep. Or those short catches could go the distance on any play due to 4.34 speed the defense must account for. Vereen could burn the defense for a big play if they try covering his 4.45 speed with a LB or slower SS including Chancellor. Lmao could you imagine what Vereen would do to Chancellor. But for all this to click Boyce must earn trust to share snaps from the slot and Dobson and KT have to step up and make that jump. KT has stood out with every opportunity at training camps which gives us some reason for confidence.

    If we make any offensive moves. I would like to trade for Carl Nicks or any standout guard or center with established power/athletic ability to handle NTs or quicker DTs one on one. Rather than all this needed double team blocks to handle the better DTs like pathetic wendall/Connolly. I would trade a #2 round pick in 0.3 seconds to get us an established guard or center and a Superbowl trophy. While knowing Connolly/Wendall could cost us a championship in many ways. They could cause Brady to be injured. They Will sabotage our offense and its timing and limit routes. They will stunt the development of our young WR talent by allowing pressure and throw off their timing with Brady and disrupt their confidence. For just a round2 pick it could be the difference in a dominant oline or a repeat of last years embarrassment of an intetior oline protecting the best qb in the league.While we have some young guys, they are rookies and bill is no fan of coaching rookie OLineman or recoaching them new positions like Fleming to guard or Halapio to center if wendall and stork struggle. While Cannon is an upgrade at RG they are an injury away from Wendall/Connolly again. Its better to fortify our line and know it will be a strength instead of a liability and just part with a friggin draft pick.

    If they really are considering Johnson and want another WR I'm against Johnson. He is 33 and I like our young WR talent. And we could get Denarius Moore for a Round6 pick. He has shown ridiculous talent but lacks discipline/coaching/work ethic/craft in that trainwreck of an offense ran by Pryor. He is youngandst talented and Sterling Sharp said he believes he has top10 talent and some well ran offense with a real QB and coach are going to get a major Steal. He said it when they were reported willing to trade Denarius Moore. While I like our young WRs you can't argue against getting a wr with that much talent for a late round pick. Especially if reports are true they are interested in Andre Johnson adding another WR. I don't care for Lafell at all. He isn't fast or athletic to separate and he drops passes. He is the definition of mediocre at best. The panthers were much higher on the WR they got in round6 the same year Lafell was drafted before the other WR was injured.
     
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  2. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Like your analysis. Question: Has Boyce been clocked at 4.34 speed? Last I saw it was 4.38.
    Still fast enough. What do you think his major problem was last year?
     
  3. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    you do realize that 4/100ths of a second equates to a runner's foot being 2 inches off the ground as opposed to 6 inches in the same stride.....or do you?
     
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  4. Hael

    Hael On the Game Day Roster

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    The biggest problem with KT is that his route running lacks accuracy. He was often open last year (especially against m2m and non probowl corners), but just in the wrong spot. You could see in many of the bad plays from last year that KT was breaking to the wrong spot, and there was frequent drive killing miscommunications and incompletions. Small things of course, but mistake free football trumps talent in this league.

    The other worry is that his hands are a little bit inconsistent. He doesn't have huge monster hands like some wr's and the ball can wobble a bit (which is why he uses his body sometimes). This can lead to losing some speed after the catch.

    Still, his nice explosion, ball tracking and knack for big plays could make him easily a solid 2 in this league. (Unfortunately I don't think he is a real 1, but he is an UDFA and we aren't going to get AJ Green where we draft)
     
  5. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #15 Jersey

    What if was actually 41/1000ths? I think I should check my metric conversion chart to get Euro-accurate. 4.4 is cookin', that's about how I see it.;)
     
  6. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is this a Joke , Joker? No I did not realize that. But what does it matter if it is 2,6 or 12 inches?
    This is something else I do not realize.
     
  7. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    my remark was aimed at your seeming disappointment that he clocked 4/100ths of a second slower at 4.38. My point is 4.34 and 4.38 only differ in the amplitude of the stride by mere inches. For all intents and purposes in a real life football scenario that would be a dead heat.
     
  8. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, I believe there is a big difference between 4.34 speed and 4.38 speed.
    Let's take two WRs one has 4.34 and the other is 4.38
    WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec
    WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec
    also lets take a CB with 4.4 speed ( fairly fast for a CB)
    CB = 40/4.4 = 9.09 yds/sec

    So lets see how long it will take our WRs to gain 1 yd on our CB

    WR1 - CB = 9.22 - 9.09 = .13 yd/sec
    so it will take WR1: 1yd/.13yd/sec = 7.7 secs to get 1 yd separation
    compared to
    WR2 - CB = 9.13 - 9.09 = .04 yd/sec
    which will take WR2: 1yd/.04yd/sec = 25 secs to get 1yd separation

    7.7 secs vs 25 secs is a BIG difference.
    (check my math --- maybe I did something wrong)
     
  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1/100 of 9.22 is .09...times 4 is .36

    1/100 of 9.13 is .09...times 4 is .36

    uh...that's math. Rounding up thousandths of a second for a comparison like this is more than justified.

    I have no idea what kind of math that is you are using.
     
  10. woolster22

    woolster22 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Do these WR's run the same in pads? How do they handle a jam? More importantly, when was the last time you saw a QB stand in the pocket for seven seconds (and change, granted, by your math I did not need to check given it is irrelevant on a football field) waiting for the WR to gain separation?

    You must be a Raiders fan.

    "Dude, our first round draft pick ran a 4.2 forty!"
    "That's awesome sauce bro! Hopefully Craig can get him to lean down, the extra explosion would make him all pro! Can he catch?"
    "Twenty drops last year, but if he bulks up he can definitely fix that. Plus he can gain a yard of separation in like just under sixty yards!"
    "Let's go buy our jerseys dude!"
     
  11. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do realize your error don't you.
    Your math says 9.22 x 1/100 = 9.13 x 1/100
    .... and I have no idea what kind of math that is you are using.

    "Rounding up thousandths of a second for a comparison like this is more than justified."
    Not at all justified ... unless you want to justify your assertion that there is not much
    difference between the two speeds.
     
  12. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    we speak different mathematical language....9.22 x 1/100 = . 0922

    9.13 x 1/100 = .0913

    you are being ludicrous trying to assert that 8 thousandths of a second makes any REAL TIME OBSERVABLE DIFFERENCE when multiplied by 4...it's .032 difference..or about as much as the amplitude of a step in a runner gait.

    You seem to need to win this anal argument so you win....4.34 is STAGGERINGLY faster than 4.38 and a1 TREMENDOUS difference maker. You win.

    That other BS you put up is PURE SPECULATION built on flawed assumptions, the main one being Runner A,.04 a second slower than runner B can actually be FASTER over 80 yards. Try Olympic sprinter comparisons.

    Have a good night, JR
     
  13. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course both WRs will not run there basic 40 time when, jamed, with pads and other factors.
    But if they suffer the same relative speed reduction, one will be faster than the other.

    No a QB doesn't wait 7 secs but he may wait 3 to 4 secs before launching a pass to hit a receiver
    30-40 yds down field.
    As for the WR, there is the time to get off his block and then time to juke a defender
    so may take the fast WR 5 to 6 secs to get 40yds down field even if he can run 4.38 speed.
    Don't forget to factor in the time in the air before the rock gets to the receiver.

    "..waiting for the WR to gain separation"

    Also a QB knows his receiver and anticipates where he will be. He doesn't always need to see
    separation only that there will likely be enough separation by the time ball arrives.
     
  14. woolster22

    woolster22 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    No way, the QB actually has an idea of where the receiver will be open? But what if the receiver is running his slower forty time? What if the defensive back is running his fastest forty time ever?! What if Craig trained the safety coming over the top? Surely the lean mass would help him recover and lay out that work out warrior punk who ran than four hundredths of a second faster!

    What if some tiny little dude, say 5'6" 165#, could run a 3.9 forty?!

    He'd be like, the most awesome WR ever. He could get a yard separation in like five seconds bro. All-Pro, from day one, drafted by your Oakland Raiders, or the Jets.
     
  15. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What is ludicrous is trying to side step the fact 7.7 seconds is significantly different than 25 seconds.
    Even if the time is reduced by 2/3 to give a 2 ft separation, 5 secs is still
    significantly different than 16 seconds.

    "A,.04 a second slower than runner B can actually be FASTER over 80 yards."
    How did you come up with this? The .04 figure in my original post is the yds/sec difference between
    the WR2 and the CB. I think you need to re-read my initial post.
    Nothing in that post supports your above assertion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  16. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe Tom Brady anticipates where his targeted WR is suppose to be open most of the time.
    He throws BEFORE the WR is open.
     
  17. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    it's YOU that cannot read or understand... I am referring to the WIDE RECEIVERS and their times...there is a 4/100 of a second difference...in real time that is a a dead heat in the 40. Stop trying to push these outlandish suppositions about 7 seconds and 25 seconds and all the rest of that speculative garbage. The point is 4/100ths of a second is just that...an inconsequential difference in REAL TIME when looking at it.
     
  18. woolster22

    woolster22 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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  19. woolster22

    woolster22 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Hey dumb ass: say receiver a runs an incredible ten yard split and then plods along topping out at a relatively slow top speed. Receiver b stumbles out of the gate, but his his proverbial "extra gear" while accelerating through the forty yards, with a gear to go past the all important underwear Olympics finish line. Receiver b could very well have a better eighty yard time, and that is about as relevant as my aunt's dinner roll recipe. However, your inability to decipher the difference between what could theoretically impact a players acceleration and top speed, and said impacts on forty and eighty yard splits (but hey, you managed the math to figure out it will take the guy running the 4.38 will take three to four times as long to create a yard of separation...with no pads, contact, wind, etc) has lead me to wonder what kinds of mind altering substances you enjoy, or have enjoyed, in your spare time.

    I apologize for my grumpy demeanor. A newborn, patsfancraig (gymrat), and now this nonsense have provided me with a decent outlet for lack of sleep. JR, you seem alright, just put the shovel down, I'll do the same :)
     
  20. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    Perhaps I have underrated the skills of Thompkins. Only time will tell.

    As another poster stated, he has many examples of poor route running, where the beat writers and insiders were referring to very "rounded" as opposed to the "sharpness" that we need here in the exact, timing based system where practice makes perfect.

    I also don't believe that he dominated his coverage either, as a matter of fact I saw him mediocre vs coverage--although I am by no means an expert, and wasn't dedicating the same amount of time and effort as I will be this year.

    Hopefully, he can continue to improve on some of these weaknesses, and parlay his (so far) good offseason into a good regular season. I'm also questioning the amount of opportunities that he receives as well though, although I assume that some injuries will add to his amount of reps.
     

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