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Patriots will take a step back in 2006

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mikey, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    http://www.sportsmemo.com/handicappers/jk/articles/768/

    I just don't understand it.

    We have our "Joe Montana" is his prime and we are taking a step back??

    We are getting rid of John Taylor and Jerry Rice??

    In a few more years, Brady will be in his 30's.

    In a few more years, Big Ben will be older and better.

    In a few more years, Carson Palmer will be in the prime of his career.

    Our best chance to win our 4th Lombardi is NOW.

    What are we saving our millions cap space for?? Matt Cassell?

    .
     
  2. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Deja vu, all over again......
     
  3. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again?????????????????????
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well he lists Sullivan as a key addition, and Bethel J as a key loss, this shows he is clueless. Also Fauria is listed as a key loss. IS anyone worried about replacing Fauria as the #3 TE with Thomas/Mills?
     
  5. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Round and round it goes, when it stops, no one knows.

    And FYI, in a few years Carson Palmer will be 30.

    And Maroney, which I deeply regret being poo-pooing that pick, adds a good 2 years to Tom Brady's prime.
     
  6. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    again, as usual...

    no surprise anymore

    who cares ?
     
  7. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Mikey, you don't know your history at all.

    Jerry Rice was drafted after Montana already won 2 superbowls.

    If anybody is Jerry Rice, it would be CHAD JACKSON. The timing is almost eerily perfect to parallel the drafting of Rice for Montana.

    Deion and Brown are like Dwight Clark and Solomon.
     
  8. sarge

    sarge Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    He also says TBC and Montie Beisel will battle it out for the left outside linebacker position.

    Has Beisel had a single rep at outside linebacker????
     
  9. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Okay, this post is clueless chicken-littlism... I see no problem with questioning the approach at any given time, but the "have they lost their minds?"/"What is going on??? My GOD??!?!??!?" approach is just silly.

    You have a team that incurred the same reaction by:

    1) Benching (then releasing) The Franchise (Bledsoe)
    2) Discarding "The Heart and Soul of this Defense" (Law), resulting in a situation in which "This team hates its coach."
    3) "falling apart" in 2002 after the first SB, because too many key pieces of the puzzle were gone
    4) Trading for a "known discontent" (Corey Dillon)
    5) Losing their best defensive back (Law)....

    And so on, and so on, and so on.

    Regardless of the year, there is a reason that the Pats "will never win another SB." This year, the problems are at LB and wideout, and you call the defensive backfield as you see it. I think it's okay but not stellar.

    I've questioned things and joked around about it before, and I even said hey, maybe BB/SP will look back and say "you know, we really did underestimate the effect of the new CBA on our value chart." But it might also be they're thinking, dammit, this guy this guy and this guy are NOT worth that much to us, and this guy and this guy who are undervalued can be groomed, plus this guy and this guy elsewhere will be available next year... you get the picture.

    When we go to sleep at night, most of us dream of the usual things... being pursued by witches waving court papers or giant staplers from work, or of course the always popular dimly remembered alien operating theater. Well, BB and SP don't. They dream about Xs and Os and depth charts, and then have their sleep monitored, their brainwaves translated, the translations fed through a room full of cray supercomputers, and the digested de-symbolized football content made ready for them as a report in the morning. They break down game film more intently than we stare at Monty Beisel's wife. More intently than HE stares at her.

    Sometimes I see a post like this and I get the impression that because this is a hobby to us, we think it's a hobby to them. (BB/SP). Well, it's not. Sometimes we might not "get" the Pats' actions, and sometimes, they just make wrong reads (I am pretty sure.) But if it were as simple as "the future is NOW... there IS NO NEXT YEAR... oh my God Rothlisburgher might actually have a 2-touchdown game this year..." then NFL personnel would be a pretty simple business. You'd just pay everybody what they asked plus a nice 10% bonus so nobody else has a shot, and then the team that did that most would win the Super Bowl every year.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you your 10-year Super Bowl Dynasty, Washington Redskins.

    It ain't that easy... which should mean to us, when things look bad, it's probably more nuanced than "TIME TO HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!"

    Your reasoning about Big Ben and Palmer is the silliest thing in here. Those guys ain't going away, but I'm pretty sure when Brady came out of nowhere, there was a guy bumping around rewriting all the record books, named Peyton Manning.

    Do you even GET what the Pats have accomplished through the rest of this decade, already??? The single best QB, and the single best DL in the game, are Patriots for this decade (at least.) One of the better DLs in the league, with a great deal of depth, locked down at least for the short term. One of the better backs in the league all set to retire a Patriot from the looks of things, and BONDING WITH -- not fighting with -- one of the more promising draftee running backs. And special bonus, right when our change-of-pace, utility-back is starting to get long in the tooth, "hey mom, look what I found!" -- Patrick Cobbs.

    The fact that the Pats are in the middle of a youth movement AND are driving seriously in the direction of the super bowl again is proof that these guys are accomplishing a lot more than you give them credit for, and that the approach has bonuses you just don't "get."

    I'm not one of those guys saying this is the best Pats team to have taken the field ever, or some crap like that. I see it as a team with problems. But it's also a team with a shot.... I guess what I am saying is...

    Dude, stop being a panicky little baywatch. (I think that's the phrase. I can't keep up with kids these days and their retro TV references...)

    PFnV
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fortunately someone who knows football IS building a team around Tom Brady.
    Lets review for the slow.

    RB. Traded for an elite RB in 2004, and won a SB, giving 'the franchise' a strong rb to open the passing game. Drafted RB #1 as soon as the elite RB show signs of wear and tear.

    OL. Locked up the LT that has protected him his entire career to a long term deal in 2004. Drafted 2 backups plans at LT in 2005, both of whom are/will be starters at other positions. Resigned Neal. Drafted 2 more OL this year.

    TE. Drafted a receiving TE #1 in 2004 to go along with the previous #1. Drafted another receiving TE in the 3rd this year. Drafted another receiving TE, who may be a FB or Hback in the 4th.

    WR. REPLACED the 7th round draft choice that may well have been successful BECAUSE of Brady with arguably the best WR in the draft, who is an immense upgrade in physical skills over Givens. Added another WR in FA who is starting caliber, and no telling what he can do with Brady throwing to him.
    When Brady became the starter, the WRs were Troy Brown, David Patten, Charles Johnson, and Fred Coleman.
    They are now Branch, Caldwell, Jackson, Brown.

    The offense since Brady first started has done the following:

    LT- Same, with better depth
    LG- First round pick
    C- 4th round pick
    RG- Developed a started, and drafted depth.
    RT- Developed a starter and drafted depth.
    WR- See above
    TE. Went from Rod Rutldege and Jermaine Wiggins to 2 #1s Graham and Watson, a #3 and a #4.
    RB. Went from Antowain Smith to Corey Dillon and Lawrence Maroney. Kept Faulk around for Brady to throw to on 3rd down.

    I understand that BB doesnt run a fantasy football team, and that disappoints people who wish we could have LT, Tony Gonzalez, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. Its easier to like your team if you dont have to know anything about football and can rely on guys the media say are talented (then watch them not be a good football team) but anyone who thinks BB has not devoted a boatload of resources to surrounding Brady with talent either isnt paying attention or doesnt understand what they are paying attention to.
     
  11. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    And he also lists Chad Brown.... as a key departure... in a story posted August 14th... Research, apparently, is a little used tool in online 'journalism'.. all this from a website that claims to be a sports-betting blog. Anyone taking advice on how to spend their money from those guys better be prepared to lose a chunk.
     
  12. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Minor quibble: "C - 4th round pick" - Koppen was drafted in the fifth round, was he not?
     
  13. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We lost Bethel Johnson and Christian Fauria? Mikey is right, we're doomed.
     
  14. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NOOOOOO!!!!! Where will we EVER find the TE depth to recover from the Fauria Loss??!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!! This is just like when we lost Wiggins!

    PFnV
     
  15. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know if this team will take a step back in 2006 but I see
    a dangerous trend beginning.

    I have followed the Pats since 1959 when they did not even have
    a name. I would read the paper each day to see what player Mike
    Holovak had signed.

    Prior to the BB/Pioli era, the Pats had a few good teams but they did
    not have any staying power. Ownership would intefere (Chuck Sullivan)or the general manager was inept(Bobby Grier). The Pats would lose good
    players and replace them with inferior ones.

    Free agency this year was not a good year for the Patriots. They lost
    good players and signed players that other teams had discarded. I'm
    fearful that our policy may be to discard players like Deon Branch, Daniel
    Graham, Dan Koppen,and Assante Samuel after their rookie contract expires.
     
  16. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    as you surely know i really love the posts that regards our past and i thks you for it too but i think that we can not compare present years with the past (that, again, i love too).
    our 'today's' organisation is probably the best in the NFL
    i think we never had in our history :
    1 - a strong ownership like Mr Kraft
    2 - probably the best Nfl head coach (BB)
    3 - probably the best Nfl executive (SP)
    4 - probably the best Nfl qb (TB)
    5 - probably the best Nfl dl (RS)

    this is the reason why i believe in the New England Patriots organisation

    but i love the post from the 'beginning fans', really !
    compliments to you to be a fan from day zero.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2006
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the "policy" is to set a value for each player. With 31 other teams also able to set a value for that player, and many of them without the same level of fiscal discipline, it is more (rather than less) likely in any given case that the Pats "lose" a guy to free agency, assuming the player has anything to bring to the table.

    And these past few years, each player has something to bring to the table in most years -- the SB ring. Even Branch, a year and a half removed from being SB MVP, is basically trying to get cleared for Free Agency based on the bloom staying on that rose. He knows he has low #1/high #2 numbers, and is likely to have again, under the Pats' system, and he wants #1 money or the right to look elsewhere. Well, nowhere is it written the Pats have to do that.

    Okay, let's get some perspective -- I remember Sam "Bam" Cunningham. I don't remember if he ever played for another team, but to me he is a Patriot forever. Loved the guy.

    But I loved him the same way I loved those lovable losing Sox teams all those years. Loved following his stat line and watching him in action, as often as not in losing efforts. Loved Grogan the same way, loved telling people how he's the best running QB in the league but he can throw too, how much more valuable he was than Bert Jones was to the Colts... etcetera. What I really hated was having to shut the hell up when someone dropped the A-bomb, which they usually did pretty quick, to wit: "yeah um did the Pats make the playoffs this year?" Sometimes they did, sometimes they did not, but they hardly ever made it past the first round. These days losing in the second round is the disappointment, not the promised land.

    The model for winning is different from the model of loyalty, like elsewhere in society these days. Just like one company will discard you like a rusty sprocket if you try to do your whole career there, one team can only carry you on the roster year in and year out if you really do take a hit to stay (the Troy Brown example.) I am not "for" labor or management in this issue, for the league. I am just "for" my team - the Patriots.

    In practice this means I can't really go off too much on "greedy" players, but I sure can't go off on "stupid" management because their approach lacks loyalty. Most players don't show it, management sure doesn't show it. It's a business, different from the fan experience of the league in that way....

    But the way the Brown deal works, well, that just gives me warm fuzzies. Regardless of anybody else, Troy Brown has reacted to free agency by unabashedly saying "me? I got paid fine... just let me retire a Patriot." I don't call that foolish, I don't call it the "model" for anybody else... I just call it a beautiful exception to the current environment.

    PFnV
     
  18. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The key to winning in the salary cap era at least in terms of longevity is to draft well and develop your own talent. The way to not win or stay mediocre is to go and sign big name players every year that come with a big cap hit. The Patriots have drafted well and they mix in an affordable vet from time to time and they refuse to over pay for the players they developed for various reasons. So far with the exceptions of Woody and Law, I can't think of an ex-Patriot who left for the riches who ended up playing better for his new team than he did for the Patriots. I am hesitant to put law into that category because the Patriots insulted him with an offer that would have paid him more guaranteed money than he has secured in the last two years via FA.

    For the record and the horse that represents this subject has already been fed to the dogs, we lost an aging OLB that was a fan favorite who did a lot of great things over the past 5 seasons. Then another former fan favorite, who is a kicker and a number 2 WR who left for number 1 money. I don't see how we lost anything substantial, I will concede the fact that I would still like to have Givens and it would make the WR corps look better as of this moment. But give it time the WR corps will work itself out its only August.

    Don't let one of the one of the more notorious idiot's on this board get you down with one of his constant "the sky is falling" threads.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2006
  19. pats-blue

    pats-blue Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    How many players that were on the 2001 SB WINNING team were still on the Pats when they WON the SB in 2004? There was substantial "turnover" wasn't there? Every year the Pats "lose" players and plug new ones in and have had success. Hey the Pats didn't WIN the SB last year...they are taking a "step back". The season hasn't started and the roster isn't even set yet and we are "giving up". Last year we didn't have a great FA season, I don't think anyone "worked out" for us of our sigings....yet with all the injuries throughout the season that decimated our O line and secondary we had to have Brady and other reliable vets make mistakes and some terrible calls to stop our play off run in Denver. Take away the mistakes or the calls and we probably win that game and more liely than not go on to the SB.

    Wait I know let me go find a BLOG with "homer" opinions to counter mikeys chicken little BLOG. I would have hated to see what you people would have said during the "bad" years of this organization. No one needs to be rah rah all the time but really the level of whining is amazing you would swear this is a AZ Cards board.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2005
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    No, It not an apt comaprison. Wiggins was at least slow youngster, who could catch and when everyone slowed down to his speeed in a snowstorm, he went wild.

    Fauria was a receiving TE who turned 35 after slowing down each of the last two seasons. He received a retirement present from Dandy Don Snyder and signed as a "blocking TE". Proving he has Not a Clue.
     

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