Patriots type 3-4 OLB

[WesWelker83]

Brooks Reed, Arizona (in the mid rounds).

Several reviews of Senior Bowl practices have said they have tried him at OLB and he's been fine rushing from a 2-pt stance and in pass coverage. Which to me is impressive considering he's been in that position less than a week.

Id have no problem taking him in rd 3 or 4. He seems like a mini Clay Matthews with the hair, speed around the edge, nonstop motor, and violent hands. Hes a little smaller at 6-2 and a little lighter but he will have a role in the NFL and play in the league for awhile.

 

[alvinnf]

Do NOT sleep on Brooks Reed. It shouldn't surprise if, by the end of the evaluation process, he sneaks into the first round.

OMFG...... Ah No......

 

[TriplecHamp]

I'm not convinced that there's an OLB worthy of #17 right now

Please tell me you aren't just basing this off of Senior Bowl practices...btw you do know that these are only the seniors right?

 

[Sciz]

Please tell me you aren't just basing this off of Senior Bowl practices...btw you do know that these are only the seniors right?

Absolutely. My earlier statement includes Smith, Quinn, and even Bowers.

 

[MaineMan]

Could someone please tell me more about these three players? Their measureables look like they fit our scheme but I don't remember seeing them play many times and I didn't focus on them.

Martez Wilson 6-4 250 Illinois
Thomas Keiser 6-5 257 Stanford
KJ Wright 6-3 250 Mississippi State

I saw Wright a couple times - stood out as a solid playmaker. But I've seen him listed as low as 245. If he weighs in at 255+ at the Combine and puts up decent numbers in the drills, I'd take a shot in the late 3rd.

Saw Keiser a couple times also and wasn't particularly impressed.

Wilson, no clue.

 

[everlong]

Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M: It might be too easy to put Miller on this list, but with all of the hype leading up to this week in Mobile, the A&M linebacker still had to show up and play. He did get a chance to display his ability to rush off of the edge in one-on-ones and you can see his natural speed and athletic ability when he is playing in space—because he can close on the ball carrier. That’s very noticeable. However, what stood out even more was watching Miller drop into coverage. He moves like a strong safety playing the curl-to-flat reads in Cover 3. How high does he go? It is still early in this process, but the talk down in Mobile had Miller pegged as a legit top ten pick after this week. If he tests well in Indy, we should see that happen.

Five players that stood out at the Senior Bowl | National Football Post

SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE, TUESDAY: When watching tight ends, it is nearly impossible not to also watch a team's linebackers, both in their ability to hold up against run blocking, as well as in coverage. The top linebacker on the field today was Texas A&M star Von Miller--and that's not even considering his work as a pass rusher in one-on-one drills. Miller surprised scouts at Monday's weigh-in with his thick lower body, which he used to hold up Williams and Stocker when man-up on run plays. His coverage skills are what really stood out, though, as the quick Williams could not separate from Miller on out routes because of the former Aggie's own lateral agility and speed. A linebacker with Miller's closing speed to the quarterback, who also can be effective in coverage, is destined for a slot in the top 20 overall selections. - Chad Reuter, NFLDraftScout.com

Von Miller, Texas A&M, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

With his 6' 2-3" and 240-245 depending on the source I had kind of written him off for the Patriots and if he's going in the top ten I probably still can but if he's able to gain leverage on the edge in the run game and drop into coverage and has that elite burst along with several pass moves I have to wonder if that moves him into the conversation. Cameron Wake is 6' 3" 250 and does a good, not great, job against the run. 5-10 pounds in the NFL conditioning program....

 

[chevss454]

Von Miller is taller than than the 6'2" Texas A&M has listed him to be. He measured closer to 6'3" at the Senior Bowl. That 1" is enough to make 3/4 teams take him seriously according to Rob Rang who considers Miller the best and most versatile OLB in the 2011 draft. (6'3", 237) Otoh, Shefter says who ever drafts Miller will be very disappointed. If the experts can't agree, how the heck are we to know?

Otoh, Sam Acho Texas OLB, came in a full 1 1/2 inches shorter than his listed height of 6'3". This won't help him at draft time, says Rang. 6' 1 3/8", 257 lbs.

Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma OLB, measured 6' 2", 268 lbs rather than his listed 6'3".

Rang says Acho's shorter stature and Beal's sloppy build will hurt them in the draft.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/news/no...php?genpos=OLB

Smith, Ayers and Houston are alternatives to watch closely.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I saw Wright a couple times - stood out as a solid playmaker. But I've seen him listed as low as 245. If he weighs in at 255+ at the Combine and puts up decent numbers in the drills, I'd take a shot in the late 3rd.

Saw Keiser a couple times also and wasn't particularly impressed.

Wilson, no clue.

To follow up on this response to WW83:

I've also seen Wright play in several games, good kid, but he wasn't used much as a rusher and he wasn't asked to take blocks on a lot - he's a better fit for a team like Chicago.

Keiser never really grabbed me at OLB for Stanford, I'd argue he needed another year and more weight room time.

Wilson I haven't seen, opinions vary, but he isn't coming from a defense which has a lot in common with NE's.

As for the thread premise and the arguments for or against a one trick pony at OLB:
-- BB has made it clear, if you are only going to do one thing well, you need to be the best.
-- With that in mind, Miller & Kerrigan are two players whom people recognize as explosive and disruptive edge rushers. There are questions for both about other assignments NE asks of it's OLBs. The one thing I do see with both is consistency in what they do well, and a strong work ethic. Both reportedly responded well to coaching at the Senior Bowl, both received mixed reviews in their attempts to play or practice at a new position.
-- If either are there at #17 I believe NE will take a hard look at them, I think they both bring intangibles which will help them excel in the NFL. There is an issue with reports starting to circulate indicating teams bracing for a lockout and shortened offseason may prefer to use higher draft picks on proven players who are "NFL ready" as opposed to project players, which both would prove to be for NE.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

To follow up on this response to WW83:

I've also seen Wright play in several games, good kid, but he wasn't used much as a rusher and he wasn't asked to take blocks on a lot - he's a better fit for a team like Chicago.

Keiser never really grabbed me at OLB for Stanford, I'd argue he needed another year and more weight room time.

Wilson I haven't seen, opinions vary, but he isn't coming from a defense which has a lot in common with NE's.

As for the thread premise and the arguments for or against a one trick pony at OLB:
-- BB has made it clear, if you are only going to do one thing well, you need to be the best.
-- With that in mind, Miller & Kerrigan are two players whom people recognize as explosive and disruptive edge rushers. There are questions for both about other assignments NE asks of it's OLBs. The one thing I do see with both is consistency in what they do well, and a strong work ethic. Both reportedly responded well to coaching at the Senior Bowl, both received mixed reviews in their attempts to play or practice at a new position.
-- If either are there at #17 I believe NE will take a hard look at them, I think they both bring intangibles which will help them excel in the NFL. There is an issue with reports starting to circulate indicating teams bracing for a lockout and shortened offseason may prefer to use higher draft picks on proven players who are "NFL ready" as opposed to project players, which both would prove to be for NE.

If I had to pick one player in this draft that in our defense has tremendous upside, it would be Keiser. He is not a ready made player in our defense, but with a red shirt year of working with Woicik and his position coach, in a year he could be a better version of Mathews or out of the NFL.

I am waiting until I get solid combine and pro day numbers before assessing him more.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Von Miller is taller than than the 6'2" Texas A&M has listed him to be. He measured closer to 6'3" at the Senior Bowl. That 1" is enough to make 3/4 teams take him seriously according to Rob Rang who considers Miller the best and most versatile OLB in the 2011 draft. (6'3", 237) Otoh, Shefter says who ever drafts Miller will be very disappointed. If the experts can't agree, how the heck are we to know?

Otoh, Sam Acho Texas OLB, came in a full 1 1/2 inches shorter than his listed height of 6'3". This won't help him at draft time, says Rang. 6' 1 3/8", 257 lbs.

Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma OLB, measured 6' 2", 268 lbs rather than his listed 6'3".

Rang says Acho's shorter stature and Beal's sloppy build will hurt them in the draft.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/news/no...php?genpos=OLB

Smith, Ayers and Houston are alternatives to watch closely.

Ouch. I didn't catch the part about Acho being only 6'1. He does make up for it somewhat with freakishly long 35.5" arms (if that's not a typo) but still the height thing is a problem. That makes him a rotation 'pass rush specialist' at bet for us.

And Von Miller at 237 lbs AND under 6'3? That formula doesn't equal 1st round pick for BB. All of these OLB prospects are just measuring in too damn short for BB. Oh well, so which DE are we drafting?

As for the thread premise and the arguments for or against a one trick pony at OLB:
-- BB has made it clear, if you are only going to do one thing well, you need to be the best.
-- With that in mind, Miller & Kerrigan are two players whom people recognize as explosive and disruptive edge rushers. There are questions for both about other assignments NE asks of it's OLBs. The one thing I do see with both is consistency in what they do well, and a strong work ethic. Both reportedly responded well to coaching at the Senior Bowl, both received mixed reviews in their attempts to play or practice at a new position.
-- If either are there at #17 I believe NE will take a hard look at them, I think they both bring intangibles which will help them excel in the NFL. There is an issue with reports starting to circulate indicating teams bracing for a lockout and shortened offseason may prefer to use higher draft picks on proven players who are "NFL ready" as opposed to project players, which both would prove to be for NE.

So Box, did Kerrigan display any better ability to get off/shed blocks?
Because from what I've heard once the OL get their arms into him, Kerrigan has a hard time getting off the block.
Stacking and shedding will be important skills if we're going to project Kerrigan as a 3-4 2 gap OLB.
He sounds impressive enough rushing the passer but how does he set the edge against the run?

 

[mrscruff]

Ouch. I didn't catch the part about Acho being only 6'1. He does make up for it somewhat with freakishly long 35.5" arms (if that's not a typo)

That does look like a typo according to these sites:

Senior Bowl weigh-in results | National Football Post
WalterFootball.com: 2011 Senior Bowl Weigh-In: Defensive Linemen
Sideline Scouting - 2011 Senior Bowl - Weigh-In Results

However his arm length (33 5/8") is not that different from that of Jermaine Cunningham (33 3/4") and he has shown that he can set the edge on the limited viewing I have seen.

 

[Water Boy]

Here's a possible late round prospect:

Bruce Miller DE/OLB Central Florida
ht: 6' 2" (maybe a little short for the BB prototype)
wt: 259
40: 4.75
Verticle: 34"
225 Bench: 42 reps


Check out some highlights on Youtube.

YouTube - 2011 NFL Prospect Highlights: Bruce Miller


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rs96yDkxS0&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t3nSjp7ub4&feature=related


Bruce Miller*|*Central Florida,*OLB*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

 

[IllegalContact]

KJ Wright......an SEC sleeper......runs a 4.59, 6'3", 246, 34" arms....weaknesses can be adjusted with a bit of coaching

Overview
Athletic, productive defensive leader who tallied 252 tackles in his last three years with the Bulldogs - was second-leading tackler in each of those years. Quick and disruptive, he led the team in tackles for loss (24.5 in his career) since he was a sophomore.
Strengths
Strong and physical outside linebacker who plays with very high energy. Great combination of size and speed. Very durable with 47 consecutive games played in his career. Great lateral quickness and able to play sideline-to-sideline - can cover sweeps and bubble screens with success. Plays with hands up and often deflects passes or forces QB to redirect pass. Able to recognize draws and screens. Good strength and toughness shown as he can shed blockers and make tackles at the LOS - plays downhill against the run. Closes quickly and tackles effectively with long arms and strong grasp. Capable pass defender with speed to match most TEs and RBs - drops well into assigned zone.
Weaknesses
Sometimes over-aggressive and will over-pursue and take himself out of the play; will bite on play-action fakes (but can usually recover.) Sometimes will take too flat an angle in pursuit causing him to miss and allowing carrier to turn the corner.

 

[MaineMan]

That does look like a typo according to these sites:

Senior Bowl weigh-in results | National Football Post
WalterFootball.com: 2011 Senior Bowl Weigh-In: Defensive Linemen
Sideline Scouting - 2011 Senior Bowl - Weigh-In Results

However his arm length (33 5/8") is not that different from that of Jermaine Cunningham (33 3/4") and he has shown that he can set the edge on the limited viewing I have seen.

Acho is 6018/257, so nearly 6'2", with 33.6" arms. Brooks Reed measured 6025/257 with 32.6" arms. Reed also has 10.1" hands. Acho's were a more "ordinary" 9.4".

BTW - Bruce Miller (promoted above) measured 6014/258 with 30.25" arms. Biggest knock on him in Shrine game practices was that he couldn't shed. No such criticism emerged from Senior Bowl practices WRT Acho.

 

[MaineMan]

KJ Wright......an SEC sleeper......runs a 4.59, 6'3", 246, 34" arms....weaknesses can be adjusted with a bit of coaching

Overview
Athletic, productive defensive leader who tallied 252 tackles in his last three years with the Bulldogs - was second-leading tackler in each of those years. Quick and disruptive, he led the team in tackles for loss (24.5 in his career) since he was a sophomore.
Strengths
Strong and physical outside linebacker who plays with very high energy. Great combination of size and speed. Very durable with 47 consecutive games played in his career. Great lateral quickness and able to play sideline-to-sideline - can cover sweeps and bubble screens with success. Plays with hands up and often deflects passes or forces QB to redirect pass. Able to recognize draws and screens. Good strength and toughness shown as he can shed blockers and make tackles at the LOS - plays downhill against the run. Closes quickly and tackles effectively with long arms and strong grasp. Capable pass defender with speed to match most TEs and RBs - drops well into assigned zone.
Weaknesses
Sometimes over-aggressive and will over-pursue and take himself out of the play; will bite on play-action fakes (but can usually recover.) Sometimes will take too flat an angle in pursuit causing him to miss and allowing carrier to turn the corner.

I've liked watching Wright play - very energetic with mostly good instincts. Apparently also a film rat. A little coaching/direction and another 10 lbs and he could be good for us.

 

[IllegalContact]

I've liked watching Wright play - very energetic with mostly good instincts. Apparently also a film rat. A little coaching/direction and another 10 lbs and he could be good for us.

brooks reed from arizona is another one although he may be a bit more of a project......6'3"/257......great motor and good pass rush skills......just not much time as an LB.......but then again, neither was tedy bruschi.....reed basically played to the same level as kerrigan in the senior bowl. and he will able to be had in the 4th round

 

[Ochmed Jones]

brooks reed from arizona is another one although he may be a bit more of a project......6'3"/257......great motor and good pass rush skills......just not much time as an LB.......but then again, neither was tedy bruschi.....reed basically played to the same level as kerrigan in the senior bowl. and he will able to be had in the 4th round

I like what I saw of Reed at Mobile. He is not as violent with his hands as Kerrigan, but looked better in space than Kerrigan did.

 

[Defsoul]

I wouldn't mind drafting Brooks Reed. We could use another defensive end from Arizona to salvage our linebacking corps.

 

[WesWelker83]

Kerrigan Purdeue 6'4" 260 (1st round grade)
Houston UGA 6'3" 260 (1st round grade)
Smith Mizzu 6'4" 260 (1st round grade)
Ayers UCLA 6'4" 255 (2nd round grade)
Beal Oklahoma 6'4" 265 (2nd round grade)
Sheard Pittsburgh 6'3" 260 (2nd round grade)
Acho Texas 6'3" 260 (3rd round grade)
Wright Miss State 6'3" 250 (3rd round grade)
Keiser Stanford 6'5" 244 (3rd round grade) [2nd round if he gets his weight up to 250 plus]
Allen Nebraska 6'4" 265 (4th round grade)
Romeus Putsburgh 6'5" 270 (4th round grade)
Mathews SC 6'4" 265 (5th round grade)
Elmore Arizona 6'5" 250 (5th round grade)
White Florida State 6'4" 260 (6th round grade)
Chinasa Oklahome State 6'5" 255 (6th round grade)
Winterswyck 6'4" 260 (6th round grade)
Bair Oregon 6'5" 270 (7th round grade)
Jones TExas 6'3" 260 (7th round grade)
Marshall South Florida 6'4" 265 (UDFA)
Lockett Ole Miss 6'5" 260 (UDFA)
Parr Virginia 6'6" 270 (UDFA)
Reed Arizona 6'4" 260 (UDFA)
Albright BC 6'5" 250 (UDFA)

Going off this initial list I think the best pure fits going by size, speed, style and versatility are:

KJ Wright Miss St 6-3 or 6-4 250-260 pounds 4.6-4.7 forty
The thing I like about KJ is that it seems all his weaknesses are fixable. He struggles with leverage, using his hands, instincts, and overpursuing which can all be fixed by good coaching. Depending on how he does at the combine I would be fine taking him at 60 or 74. I know he only had 7 sacks in college but Clay Matthews only had 5 and hes turned out to be a pretty good player. ESPN lists him with 34.5 length for arms which is good as well. Hes a strong tackler, great motor, above average athlete, three yr starter, good range, good change of direction skills, and has experience dropping into coverage.

Martez Wilson 6-4 250 4.6 forty
I like Wilson's versatility for our team as hes played DE, OLB, and ILB in college. He has the size and speed we covet at this position with great productivity vs the run. He has proven he can stack and shed OL. He needs to improve his instincts and while hes a great sideline to sideline player he does have some stiffness in his hips. I love his pass rush abilities as he uses his hands well and has a good closing burst. He also has experience dropping into coverage but its not a strength because he lacks ideal man to man cover skills.

Wilson has an injury history as he missed all of 2009 with a herniated disc in his neck.

I am concerned with his off the field issues though. Suspended in 2008 vs Northwestern for violating team rules. Doesnt seem like a Patriot type there because football doesnt seem like a priority. He was also involved in a fight outside a bar last December.

Wilson has talent but has a lot of red flags. I definitely don't see BB picking him but I think he fits our system in that he has the talent to execute a lot of the things we ask our OLBs to do. Here is some game film from youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyQyGwR9KjI vs Michigan 08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_kX-cfzjjw&feature=related vs Ohio St 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCcIIuMGi2M vs Michigan 10 (I think he looked like crap in this game. I just watched this one after posting and it makes me take back everything I said LOL. He looked horrible.)

 

[WesWelker83]

That does look like a typo according to these sites:

Senior Bowl weigh-in results | National Football Post
WalterFootball.com: 2011 Senior Bowl Weigh-In: Defensive Linemen
Sideline Scouting - 2011 Senior Bowl - Weigh-In Results

However his arm length (33 5/8") is not that different from that of Jermaine Cunningham (33 3/4") and he has shown that he can set the edge on the limited viewing I have seen.

The following game tape is why I don't like Sam Acho. Once an OT engages him he can't shed the block when teams run at him or get around the block on the edge on a pass rush. He also never drops into coverage and he seems like a one gap penetrator in a 4-3.

YouTube - Sam Acho vs Baylor