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Patriots trade way up, per Draft tek

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PATSNUTme, Mar 4, 2011.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Green.............:rofl:
  3. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

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    fail, fail is obvious.

    They don't have pouncey going in the 1st round at all?! So by this scenario if we do nothing, we could have both JJ Watt and pouncey in the 1st. Wait till the second to grab brooks reed or kerrigan for the OLB spot.
  4. Dufflebagz

    Dufflebagz Rookie

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    We trade two 1st round picks for an unproven rookie WR......yeah, that has BB written all over it :rolleyes:
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's all about getting eyeballs to the site; one of the admins admitted as much on their message board.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW, in their main no-trade mock, they actually have Kerrigan at 15, and Watt at 16, but they have Reed at 38 and Pouncey at 48(!) to Oakland.
  7. Dufflebagz

    Dufflebagz Rookie

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    Everyone who came for that article will now see that site as a joke, that doesn't help too much.
  8. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Most people who visit draft sites just hear Mel Kiper say "I hear the Pats are thinking of moving up for AJ Green," and therefore would find it credible. :bricks:
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Marcel Dareus at 12?

    I would be surprised if he is not gone by 10
  10. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    [​IMG]
    take Pouncey with 33 and Acho with 60.
  11. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    There is almost zero chance that BB trades up... but if he does, I think Dareus is the only guy that he might think about doing it for.
  12. 3rd and Long

    3rd and Long Rookie

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    It depends how the draft unfolds, I could see us moving up to around 10-13 to grab a DL or OLB if they start flying off the board. I could even see us going up to around 6-9 if there is a guy we really want, we certainly have the ammo and with a rookie wage scale coming in the new CBA we wouldn't have to give a big contract to whoever we pick.
  13. fxkane

    fxkane Rookie

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    I say WAIT. I will bet that at least 3 of the consensus top 16 players in this draft, will be available to us at 17. And the same will be true for the top 16 on draft day. Happens every year---at least 3 and maybe more.

    We have about 5 need positions--just grab the best of the falling stars, and for less money too. We've never been about the guys at the top, so why start now.
  14. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

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    I think that this is a year that the Patriots will be sorely tempted to move up...especially if there is a rookie wage scale (please please). Moving up makes sense because the price will be reasonable and the Patriots have the picks to play around with.

    Whether they do move up will depend on their board; if they think that the blue chips will not last until 17 then I see them moving up.

    As far as taking Green or any WR...ha. They would take a pass rusher or CB instead. They got burned on the Chad Jackson move; hopefully they learned their lesson.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  15. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Yeah, but who? You dont trade up for a position, you trade up for a player.

    I just dont see many players that fit. I dont want Quinn. I'm not on the JJ Watt bandwagon either. Peterson would be nice, but I'm not going to trade up for a CB with our depth chart as it is. DL and OLB seems deep, but not as deep as it seems. Allen Bailey is not a fit. Kerrigan looks legit... but as a 4-3 end.

    Dareus is a legit top-10 talent, and a fit for our system at a position that could use some healthy legs and youth.

    The rest of em... QBs, CBs, WRs and over-drafted OLBs like Ayers and Von Miller. Not interested. I'm intruiged by Aldon Smith, but not at 17.

    I'd rather trade back, take an OL or three, take Justin Houston or Jeremey Beal late in the 1st.
  16. sevengables_2207

    sevengables_2207 Rookie

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    If we could grab one of those two with a second round pick (Kerrigan with the early 2nd/Reed with the late 2nd) after addressing the OL/DL in the first round, I would be very pleased.

    Trading up for Green would not be prudent, IMO, when this draft is so deep in prospects who play in the trenches, which are among the team's biggest needs.
  17. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

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    That was expressed with LOVE, Brother Rook!! :D
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With respect, Beal in the first is a bigger overdraft than anyone else who might be drafted in the first or second round.

  19. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

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    You may want to check out some of the combine drills these guys ran while standing up. Houston pretty much proved to everyone he is a 4-3 end weighing in @ 270. Beal was horrific in drills. He had to fall down 3 or 4 times trying to change directions, combine(no pun intended) that with his poor senior bowl performance thats a DO NOT WANT recipe.
  20. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    On the NFL Network, Mike Lombardi cites a field stretching WR as a major need for the Patriots. He's bought into the hype that Defenses were able to figure out the Patriots offense without Moss later in the season.

    If BB made this move for Green, I would be bull****.
  21. Steve1iron

    Steve1iron Rookie

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    I don't see any significant trade up. The Pats would have to give up too much compared with what they have to gain with picks they have. Only time I see trade up is if they have eyes on Jordan or Watt at 17 and they see someone at 14 to 16 moving to take them. Then I could see trading 17 and a 4 to go and grab one of those guys. To me that's the number one priority ..... a pass rushing DL.
  22. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One possibility you didn't address is Cameron Jordan, who I think could make a big impact on the Patriots defense playing a role that's part Willie McGinest, part Jarvis Green.

    But in general, I agree that the OLB pool in particular isn't as rich as it's made out to be this year. (3-4 DE & NT are much stronger...especially if you're not too particular about "character.")

    I don't see either of the guys you name, Houston & Beal, as close to 1st-round values for the Patriots. Houston can only move forward and seems to rely an awful lot on the speed rush. He's a nice situational player, but IMO definitely not at 28. And Beal has done just about everything possible in post-season practices, games, drills and measurements to convince the world he shouldn't be drafted before day 3.

    Which raises the question: who ARE the OLB prospects from 28 on? Probably a good thread topic on its own.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  23. 3rd and Long

    3rd and Long Rookie

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    Jeremy Beal in the 1st? Didn't he run like 5.10 at the combine? I agree with you on Dareus though, he is going to be a monster, but I do think he is gone in the top 5. Why you are down on Quinn? He is a freak athlete, he was a beast on the field in 09, and he has overcome a lot to get where he is. Quinn would be a perfect fit.

    Overall, I think the best fits for us in the 1st round are: Dareus, Jordan, Miller, Quinn, Smith and Wilkerson. Depending on how the draft goes I can see scenarios with Smith and Wilkerson being available at 17, but I think we will have to trade up to get any of the other 4. Quinn might be available around 10, where we could trade up rather easily (17 +60). My ideal scenario would be to come away with Quinn and Wilkerson with our 1st 2 picks (Smith and Wilkerson wouldn't be bad either).
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  24. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I have no problem with BB trading up and taking Green high. Green is a play maker and was the best WR in the SEC last year hands down. Taking Green allows us to spin Welker off to Atlanta and we can always draft Sanabacker,with his excellent 3 cone score to groom behind Eledman.

    However if BB goes way up and Dareus is still on the board, then I have a huge problem if we take Green over Dareus.

    If Carolina takes Newton #1, then they will be doing us a huge favor, and it gets even better if Buffalo takes Gabbard at #3, Arizona takes Mallett at #5 and Washington takes Locker at #10.
  25. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

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    So, in this scenario we trade up and mortage many picks to draft an unproven WR, a position where Pats have shown their inability to draft and develop anyone since Givens, Branch. Then, we trade the best slot WR in NFL, thereby weakening an established position to have Larry, Moe and Curly be our 3 WR's

    Heck, while we're at it let's trade TB also and line up for Andrew Luck nex year.

    :bricks:
  26. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    While I would never trade Brady, I have zero reservations about just how good Green will be in the pros. The kid was all state in high school as a freshman. He was nearly all SEC as a freshman. He makes plays and has excellent hands and routes. He understands how to use his body to wall of defenders as well as any defender not named Andre Johnson coming out of college in a long long time.

    I am solid with Green. As for Welker, the thought of trading him is tough, but between him, Branch, the TE's and the RB safety value, we have a lot of receivers in a small area of the field.

    We need to back the safeties out of the box and Welker is not the guy to do that for us.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  27. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    The wallpaper on my desktop is a picture of Welker torching the Ravens for a long run. I'm a fan.

    That said, there is a nugget of plausibility in the idea of trading Welker. BB is an economist. He makes valuations of players with absolutely no sentimentality, as we must all recognize by now: Bledsoe, Milloy, Law, McGinest, Vrabel, Vinatieri, Seymour, Moss... all elite players that he's escorted off the roster in various ways. When he feels a player has underplayed their salary cap, he exits them.

    Now, Welker deserves to be considered a star in the league, and BB himself gave up a 2nd round pick for the guy. But, here's the inconvenient truth: Edelman could hardly find the field last year because of the depth at WR and the gap between Wes and Julian on the field is not as big as the salary gap. Julian is the better value. Wes will command elite compensation in terms of draft picks, presumably from a crummy team. So, although I cant get excited about the idea, I recognize trading Welker is consistent with BB's MO.

    Buy low, sell high.

    HOWEVER, the idea of drafting Green as Welker's replacement, however, is not "buy low". An early first rounder at a point where the sky's the limit on Green's potential is "buy high". "Buy low" is drafting Givens in the 7th round or Branch in the 2nd (I remember the reaction to that pick on this board was a very loud "WHO?!?") or Edelman off the street. BB loves filling his roster with guys like BJGE, Woodhead, Arrington, Wright, Neal... undrafted talent with the right attitude.

    I think BB would draft Green early if he believes the kid is a once-in-a-generation talent, like Moss or Fitzgerald. That's the only way it feels like value. But, is Green a sure thing? I'm not sure... maybe?
  28. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Everything hinges on "if" BB goes up for Green. And as we both know, a BB draft is all about value. So really, I am putting this discussion in a context that we both doubt BB would ever consider doing because it violates his #1 drafting philosophy.

    At the same time I have to explore why he would do something like that if he chose to actually pursue this draft strategy and in my mind, I think the Atlanta wanting Welker rumors are indeed true.

    So it becomes #17, #28 and Welker for Green and Atlanta's second or third round pick? Still doesn't work in my book.
  29. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Remember, though, there's also the issue of what the player can do for you v. what that draft pick can do.

    I find it hard to believe that no one at all, for example, made an offer for Asante in 2007, but the Pats decided to keep him and pay $7M+ for 2007 knowing that they were going to lose him after that, and get only a comp pick in 2008 in return.
  30. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I don't find the notion of the Patriots trading up to grab any player Belichick wants odd at all - he's got the ammunition of lots of picks that he can't trade for proven veterans (assuming there's no new CBA and thus no free agency prior to the draft)

    But with some of the recent losses at OL I think Belichick, knowing its a deep draft, will cast the fishing net wide, use nearly all the picks he has and attempt to replenish.

    The draft being what it is, he might hit on more than half if he's good and lucky.
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