Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Nov 23, 2006.
The suit could do a lot more damage than the article listed.
The teams set their ticket prices to do 2 things, cover costs and make a profit, and thats fine. But if the reason for high prices is fair market value or what the market will bear, they will be in real trouble. If it comes out that they funnel tickets to re-sellers who sell them at inflated values, and then form the basis for setting fair market value, then the owners are probably engaging in fraud.
The owners can set their ticket prices for whatever value they want, but it is the behind the scenes manipulation of the market that may get them in trouble.
The way tickets sell, it's a really difficult argument to make that they're manipulating them high. The Krafts could probably charge $200 per ticket for every non season ticket seat and be sold out before the season started.
If the teams really wanted to crack down on scalping they'd just raise their prices. Scalpers exist because the teams aren't selling the tickets at what the market will bear.
Then again I don't know what the value is of ticket revenue that all comes in before even the first kickoff of the season, as opposed to revenue that trickles in as each game is played. Also I suppose security costs are less when you have the ability to punish someone by taking their season tickets away. Considering the history of security problems in Foxboro, I'm sure effective security as cheap as possible is very important. We are still the only group of fans in history that knocked down a goal post and carried it several miles away from the stadium as far as I know
Hypocrites. They sell Super Bowl tickets through PrimeSport. $2000 for air, hotel, transportation. With a game ticket it's $4000.
Who cares? And you guys think that Maroney getting more touches is a useless thread? Ok
I'm not going to stick up for ticket scalpers, but IMO, when a fan resells his tickets, the team got what they wanted for them, so how are they hurt? I went to the Vikings game and the tickets were bought on Ebay for more than face value and I was happy to get them. The Vikings already got what they wanted for them so how are the Vikings hurt by that? IMO, reselling tickets is a victimless crime. No one is forced to pay the higher price. The team got what they wanted for them. The buyer got what they wanted and the seller, too. If people don't want to pay ticket scalper prices, don't buy the dam things. Duh.
That's how I feel. I'll pay scalper's prices to go to a game once every few years, if someone makes a profit more power to them. If the Patriots want that money they can sell them at those prices and risk them going unsold.
LOL. The first time a person buys a ticket at a price he hasn't agreed to will be the first. Maybe Congress should get involved
You buy the product at the available price or you forgo the product, it works across the economy.
Actually it does happen that people buy tickets they didn't agree to, or at prices they don't want.
If you buy tickets at Ticketmaster, they use some new stupid computer routine that doesn't lock in the ticket being offered. I am talking about their outlets, not on-line. They offer you the ticket, you say yes and while the financial transaction is going through those tickets are sold somewhere else. What comes out of the printer are different seats than what you agreed to. They don't fix it either, you are stuck with it. I paid top dollar for great seats to a concert, and ended up with lesser seats. I might still have bought them, but not at the top price.
There are so many outlets working off the same ticket pool and things move so fast that they may even be offering tickets that are already sold, but haven't been updated as gone.
I guess you know now, then, and should go through Ticketmaster on-line. I have no idea if what you said is true, I have no reason to leave my house to buy tickets. On-line you have two minutes to buy the exact seats they offer.
But we were talking about Patriots tickets, I believe, not concert tickets.
I have a wireless connection and can't get their on-line site to work. It gets all the way to the end of a purchase and then has a technical error, and the tickets I was trying to buy are gone.
'You have no reason to know if what I said is true' .... OK. So what is the point of the forum then ?
No, your comment was about it being a first if someone paid for a ticket they didn't agree to the price of, you may have assumed it was a Pats ticket, but you lacked specificity.
It's a Patriots forum and the thread is about Patriots tickets. Duh.
The original poster was talking about NFL tickets in general and Patriots tickets is particular. How much you paid for a concert ticket or a parking ticket isn't germane to the question at hand.
Unless... have you ever purchased a ticket for a Patriots game and never gotten the seat advertised?
It happened to me twice. End zone tickets, three of them. The seats were set up wrong after a concert and one of the seats didn't exist. They offered to give me one ticket way in the back, but I said I wanted three together. The guy gave me better seats, 8th row on the goal line.
Another time I received a call from the pats ticket office. The seats I bought (third level) were not available. THey offered me three is section 109. It didn't take long to say yes.
All that said, I have never bought tickets for one seat and received different seats when I picked up my tickets. All were mistakes caught by the stadium people.
Who cares? Not everyone is an STH. When StubHub has hundreds of tickets but at anywhere from 3x to 10x their face value, and you're trying to find tickets, it pisses you off. Especially when it's blatant illegal activity.
(But is it TIGHT?)
I don't understand the logic behind scalping being illegal. We live in a capitalistic society. We are talking about a luxury item, not something like food, health care, medicine or heating oil.
If I buy $500 worth of Tom Brady cards and he wins another Super Bowl and someone offers me $1,000, that's perfectly legal. If I wait in line 72 hours to buy a PS3 for $600 and sell it on eBay for $2,000, that's perfectly legal. If I am a car dealer and buy 200 cars from Volkswagen for $20,000 each and sell them for $25,000 each, that's perfectly legal.
But for some reason in many states, tickets do not fall into our capitalistic system... go figure...
Set aside the legality of scalping and answer me this: Why does it "piss you off" that Chicago-NE tickets sell for what people are willing to pay...? Where's the logic in getting mad at the free enterprise system at work...?
And I am sure they are all losing a fortune as the Cardinals have exploded into a 2-8 season.
That's an absolutely brilliant point, and it explains why every single Pats STH I know (and I know about 20 of them) wasn't offered any tickets for any of the 4 Super Bowl NE has gone to during the Kraft era. The team scalps the tickets themselves, only through another shill company. It's one of the dirty little secrets.
That's exactly how I feel. The funny thing is what people fail to realize is that if scalping is illegal, the people that are hurt the most are the consumers.
I was able to go to Super Bowl 39 because I went to eBay and bought tickets. I paid a small fortune but it was worth it to me. Where's the problem in that...?
"People are willing to pay?"
Nobody in their right mind would pay $500 for a 300-level seat to a regular season game. The only reason they do is because those are the only seats left (thanks to the scalpers).
It pisses off the consumer when buying the tickets legally costs face value - $49-$125, but buying them from illegal dealers costs $250-$1500. Insane. When one is able to purchase tickets directly the week of the game for face value through Ticketmaster or the TicketExchange, but there's another outlet on the Internet that is selling hundreds of tickets that could be face-value, that pisses the consumer off.
It should piss the Patriots off as well. These scalpers are making money off the Patriots, but there's nothing the team can do about it. The scalpers, by charging absurd amounts for the tickets just because they can, are driving up the market price. But to keep up with that inflation, the Pats would need to obviously make face value the market price of $300 or so. And that would easily piss off the fans, whose incomes aren't keeping up with the amount the tickets are being re-sold for. Through that, the Patriots are losing money and have a right to be pissed off. They're being forced to charge below market price to keep good relations with fans.
I worked with a guy whose dad has season tickets. He used to go to all the home games and tell us about it on Monday.
They got super bowl tickets for all of the recent ones. His dad didn't use them and he got them. He said something about a lottery for STH (no details), and I always thought it odd that his father would keep winning every time. Perhaps some STH are more favored than others.
Here's a little perspective on the issue. In January of 1986, Super Bowl tickets were offered to every Patriots season ticket holder who wanted them (no lottery, if you wanted them, you showed up at the box office to buy them). Ironically enough, there were not enough takers so the Pats opened up the sale to the public.
....Supply and demand.
[It pisses off the consumer when buying the tickets legally costs face value - $49-$125, but buying them from illegal dealers costs $250-$1500. Insane. When one is able to purchase tickets directly the week of the game for face value through Ticketmaster or the TicketExchange, but there's another outlet on the Internet that is selling hundreds of tickets that could be face-value, that pisses the consumer off.
* Then they shouldn't buy them. How do consumers have a right to buy tickets to a sold out event at face value? If it's sold out they are shut out except thru someone selling thier tickets.
It should piss the Patriots off as well. These scalpers are making money off the Patriots, but there's nothing the team can do about it. The scalpers, by charging absurd amounts for the tickets just because they can, are driving up the market price.
* The team got the money they wanted for the tickets so why should they be mad? It's not scalpers who drive up the price, it's the people who pay that price. If no one bought those scalped tickets, they wouldn't sell for such high prices.
Frankly, I'm surpised Kraft doesn't go after the guys scalping parking spaces at Gillette. You go to a Rev's game and they cost $15. Then some scalper buys them all up for a Patriots game and the same parking spot costs $35 -
wow, i never thought i'd see sports fans arguing in favor of ticket scalping.
capitalism isn't always the best way, and it isn't this perfect system people want to make it to be. The government kills monopolies and restricts trade; it's not like laws restricting capitalism are out of nowhere. besides, sports aren't your run-of-the-mill commodities.
now let's have more people explaining why the Patriots should jack up the ticket prices themselves, the only capitalistic way for them to stop scalping. that's sure to work for everyone involved!
now if only the red sox could care
Well, that's for the free market to decide. What right does the government have dictating what people can or can't pay...? Who are you to tell me that I am not "in my right mind" if I am willing to pay such an amount...?
Well, I agree. It is insane that it is illegal to scalp tickets. It should be a free and open marketplace with market forces determining equilibrium prices. But here's a newsflash that people like you need to realize: For every big ticket game like the Bears or Colts, there are plenty of duds like the Lions or Buccaneers.
You don't seem to know much about how economics works.
You don't seem to know much about how economics works.
I think your friend's dad is telling some pretty tall tales, because the mathematics behind that are infinite improbability. Unless he's a club seat holder - they have guaranteed Super Bowl tickets.
Well, it's the smart sports fans who know that legalized and open scalping benefits the consumers more than it does the scalpers. The only sports fans that oppose legalized scalping are the fools who think that if scalping is illegal, they will somehow suddenyl have plenty of access to cheap tickets.
Which is why I make it a point of mentioning that we are talking about a luxury item here. We are not talking about health care, food, shelter, heating oil, medicine, etc.
Well, here's the dirty little secret... the Patriots do scalp tickets. They do it through their authorized, official "travel agency". Just check out how much that agency was charging for Super Bowl tickets a few years ago...
That's what the Cherokee said to Daniel Boone as he was about to scalp him: This benefits you more that it does me
Seriously, there's a reason they call it scalping.
Scalping is legal: I give a guy $1600 for two tickets he paid $99 each for.
Scalping is illegal: The original ticket holder can sell for face value only: I pay $198.
So how does being scalped benefit me more?
This open market setting the price is a bunch of hooey. They people pushing it are the same ones who have been complaining about high Gillette ticket prices. The fact that there is a waiting list of over 50,000 people says that the price of tickets is below market value. If Kraft let the market determine the price, he would keep raising the price until there was no waiting list anymore. If he didn't sell out one year, he'd lower prices. People get on a waiting list to buy, he's raise prices.
Who wants that?
Get rid of this thread! Let's talk football, not about lawsuits. Sorry Bra!
Separate names with a comma.