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Patriots should trade for Tony Gonzalez


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Guys, your problem is that DaBruinz suffers fools lightly and possibly that you're too thin skinned. Don't like the crit? THen fire back with facts, instead of forming a girls pouting group.

He trys to nail someone who doesn't think like him. It's opinion and not facts with him on many occasion like he has inside information. The point is that what gives him the almighty authority on this site to act like he is above everyone else that posts including you that he has taken shots at. This isn't just for ol' DW Toys here, but I feel for some posters that he picks apart just to make him feel better about himself. He has been wrong and I called him on it just like everyone he wacks because he treats people that way. Upon occasion I even agree with the SOB, but not when he gets his sarcasm on which is not what this site is all about. He just needs to lighten up. This is for fun and interest. He can hate on me all he wants. I am wrong upon many occasions and many more to come. He can dish it out but....

I am more interested on seeing what people say about Gonzales than giving Simon the attention he seeks or wasting time on this. Nobody wants to read this garbage.

You know what, Simon is probably a nice guy...Oh well.
DW Toys
 
You lot sound like my kids at kindergarten

Its new year FFS:singing:
 
Anytime what looks like a relatively straightforward thread ends up at 6+ pages it's always a sure sign DaBruinz is schooling some rookie in the art of running an NFL franchise :D
 
I would love to see Gonzalez in a Pats jersey, but i think the chiefs will be asking price will be to high for the Pats. I cannot wait to see Benjamin " Rock Hands" Watson out the door. I thought he would be a stud TE by now.
 
He trys to nail someone who doesn't think like him. It's opinion and not facts with him on many occasion like he has inside information. The point is that what gives him the almighty authority on this site to act like he is above everyone else that posts including you that he has taken shots at.

So what if DaBruinz has unloaded on me on some posts. It's a message board for fans. It's fun to state opinions, criticize and challenge others and respond with facts as you best can.
 
Anyways...

I know we've had some hits with proven talent, but unless he's cheap, I'd say forget it. Try again in the draft.

Also, I may be alone in this, but I don't think Watson has reached his ceiling and I don't think he's half as bad as some here do. I won't shed any tears if we unload Wendy though.
 
Just for the record, DaBruinz is the one who swears at me, and put me on his ignore list, so if anyone needs to have thicker skin, its that lightweight.
As Ethel Merman said in "Its a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World"

"Hes just like your father....a big, stupid, muscleheaded, moron!!!"

* note that the above quote was about **** Shawns character, Sylvester, I never directly called DaBruinz any names!! :)
 
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Sorry, but your evaluation of Watson leaves something to be desired. Watson's route running is excellent. The problem is catching the ball, but its not from stone hands. Its from trying to run without the ball. Its a mental thing.

As for Thomas. He had a promising rookie year. Missed most of his sophomore year to an injury and played his third this year. He hasn't progressed, but then can you honestly tell me that the Patriots passing schemes are calling for lots of plays to the TEs over the middle. Not from what I've seen.

TE seems to be a weakness in this offense. However, much of it could be a scheme issue since they were still having Watson and Thomas stay in and help Kaczur block. If the Pats could feel comfortable letting Kaczur block on his own, with the TE only providing a chip or picking up a blitz, then the TEs could be used more.

In 2006 everyone complained that we didnt have any WRs and Watson was our #1 weapon. We get Moss and Welker, so Watson's role in the passing game is reduced, and now we want to replace him so the TE can catch more passes???????? Makes no sense to me.
 
In 2006 everyone complained that we didnt have any WRs and Watson was our #1 weapon. We get Moss and Welker, so Watson's role in the passing game is reduced, and now we want to replace him so the TE can catch more passes???????? Makes no sense to me.

You have to understand that too many football fans see TE as just a pass catching position. They measure everything by stats. They saw Daniel Graham as a "bust" because he wasnt Tony Gonzalez catching 90 passes. Forget the fact he was an awesome blocker who made a big difference in the running game. Same with Watson, its all about numbers to these people.
And unless your QB throws 50 TDs and your RB gets 1,500 yards, and all your receivers catch 60 to 100 passes, they are "busts".
 
Here is the part I dont get.
The Patriots are renowned for building a team, not collecting talent, which is what most other teams do and almost every fan begs for.
So when a Patriot fan begs for collecting talent, why jump all over him? Sure its not going to happen, and its a lack of understanding the Patriot Way, but its what 99% of all fans think is the right thing to do.

By the way, this does not mean BB would turn away a Gonzalez or that he doesnt want all the talent he can get, it means that he needs to get the most TALENT PER DOLLAR. The reason BBs team building approach is not to collect talent (i.e. no bidding for Jason Taylor last year to name one) as a fan would like is that the 'talent' a fan sees is already overpriced.
By the time fans recognize a 'great talent' or shortly thereafter, they have already begun or moved close to declining. To acquire those players you must pay for what they are, or even worse (I think Gonzalez has already declined) what they used to be. While you have them, they will decline further. In other words the bigger the 'name' the more you overpay, because you are paying for their PAST accomplishments, and they are no longer at that level.
We will continue to bring in the so-called damaged goods such as Dillon and Moss, because when they are 'damaged' they are cheaper and therefor better value.


The rule of thumb I've learned to look at with BB is that the better known, and the higher the reputation of a player, the less likely BB is going to be interested. If other teams love the guy, his value per cost will be worse. If we are the only bidder his value per cost will be higher. There are some exceptions, such as Colvin and AD and I think those are just a case of BB placing SO much value on their abilities that they were still worth even the high price because BBs opinion of them was higher than the market even though the market opinion was pretty high.

Look back through most all of the transactions under BB and almost every player brought in was either not well known, or not considered at their peak (i.e. Moss considered over the hill when BB felt he was not). BB typically buys when the price is discounted.

The other part of this that I think gets missed a lot is fans few each potential transaction in a vaccuum. "Imagine what Gonzalez would do for our passing game". Fans tend to consider a transaction good or bad, and not better or worse than the alternative, and in fact, tend to ignore that their are alternatives. (Opportunity costs for the economists out there). Fans think its yes or no to Gonzalez, then tend to think we 'have to have him' (same thing in the draft) where BB looks at each player as part of an alternative.
I think BB has shown over the years that the alternatives all add up similarly, and there is no reason to 'have to have' anyone.
So it isn't Gonzalez yes or no, but Gonzalez is worth X out of the value of the entire team, and there are 10,000 other ways that add up to X. If Gonzalez costs X+1 bringing him in, no matter how good he is, HURTS the team, because the other options that add up to X value cost X (or maybe even less)
 
You have to understand that too many football fans see TE as just a pass catching position. They measure everything by stats. They saw Daniel Graham as a "bust" because he wasnt Tony Gonzalez catching 90 passes. Forget the fact he was an awesome blocker who made a big difference in the running game. Same with Watson, its all about numbers to these people.
And unless your QB throws 50 TDs and your RB gets 1,500 yards, and all your receivers catch 60 to 100 passes, they are "busts".

Thats fine though. Those type of fans are half right. They are absolutely right that our team would be better with Gonzalez. Just as it would with a pro-bowler at all 22 positions.
But that is unrealistic. We can theoretically upgrade many spots, and many fans desire those upgrades. They just seem to miss the fact that trading away resources and paying the amount of money you would pay Gonzalez to upgrade over Watson would result in a larger downgrade elsewhere because of the cost of the trade and the salary cap room.

If I have 53 slots and an exactly average player at all 53, you are absolutely correct that any above average player would upgrade the team UNTIL you accept that you now must downgrade another spot or spots to pay that cost.

I think the most important talent an NFL GM can have is being correct at deciding what 'good enough' is, because there are only 22 players in the NFL that the best at their position, 682 'upgradable' starters in the NFL. The team that think it needs to upgrade evey upgradable player (that team is also known as the Redskins, and recently the Jets) is never going to win, because they are chasing an unrealistic goal, and paying a heavy price with each chase.
 
It's been tried. It rarely works.

It does work.. I've come out with apologies on numerous occasions for when I was wrong. PWP has corrected me on things..So has Box, Miguel, MG, etc, etc. And I've apologized to them in kind and thanked them for the correction.
 
It does work.. I've come out with apologies on numerous occasions for when I was wrong. PWP has corrected me on things..So has Box, Miguel, MG, etc, etc. And I've apologized to them in kind and thanked them for the correction.


unless he doesnt agree, and then he continues to call them dolts and dumbarses and worse. When he apologized to those people I wonder if he called himself a dolt or a dumbarse?
 
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