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Patriots Offseason Has Potential to Wow

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  1. PatsFans.com Article

    PatsFans.com Article Rookie

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    Patriots Offseason Has Potential to Wow
    By: Christine Roy

    After yet another heartbreaking loss in the Super Bowl, Bill Belichick has a fresh offseason in front of him. According to the USA Today, an unbelievable 600 free agents could hit the market when their contracts expire on March 31. Compared to the hurried offseason of last year, this one has potential.

    Instead of hurrying up to make moves, owners and coaches are able to take a more detailed look at the available players. Preseason planning can get underway sooner and the all important, quarterback/receiver relationships can being to develop. It’s a chemistry thing and this offseason should be full of it.....

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2012
  2. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I am going to respectfully disagree with this assessment. The Patriots pass rush in 2011 was light years ahead of where it had been the previous three years; you can't lump the '11 pass rush in with the pass rush of those other teams. If you had to pick only one area on this team that lagged behind and needed to be upgraded then that would without a doubt be pass coverage, not the pass rush. In fact it was the pass rush that helped hide the glaring deficiencies of the secondary, helped along with schemes by the coaching staff.

    Granted the pass rush cannot be ignored this off-season since Anderson and Carter are free agents. Plus, there are other free agents that would be huge upgrades - whether they big money, big name players like Mario Williams or less costly options - but in my opinion the Pats defensive line did a much better job than the secondary did this year.
  3. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Can't argue that. Based on 2011 performance. But, the secondary is getting players back. Patrick Chung shouldn't miss half the season. Ras-I Dowling will be back. I feel Devin McCourty will be better than he showed in 2011. All we need is a FS imo and some depth.

    The DL is losing their two best pass rushers. Warren and Ellis aren't long term answers. We need two 2-gap de's. And, one or two olb's. One if we keep Anderson.
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the cap number is going to be important, because players haven't yet adapted to the slowing of the growth.

    At $101 million, with a cap of $125 million, and the $6 million carryover, the Patriots would effectively have a cap of $131 million, giving them $30 million to spend. At that point, the team should be able to re-sign anyone it wants (financially speaking), plus sign the draftees, plus sign a WR and S in free agency.

    Heck, they'd even have another $2 million they could borrow from next year's cap if they chose to use it.
  5. Joker

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    I read that the Pats have 6 million of cap space and the Jets have 8.8 million...once again proving how far greater the Jets are than the Patriots...of course, the post comes from Sewerhole Insider and its "cap expert" guy...so,I mean, they are so screwy over there it's probably utter garbage...BUT...does anyone have THE definitive numbers from an impeccable source???
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  6. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Doesn't the cap pop up to approx. $160 mill in a couple years....once the new TV money kicks in. If this true, it would be in the Pats best interests to get the Gronk done early before the spicket opens. Of course his agent will recommend patience...Boras style
  7. ATippett56

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  8. Lamanai

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    Those figures do not include unused 2011 cap space. The amount of Pats and Jets unused cap space are the $6 million and 8 million referenced earlier. So the Pats actually have a bit more, say about $30 million. That sounds like a lot, but about half of it gets taken up by Welker (franchised?) and the draftees.

    I'd characterize the Pats as being in comfortable cap shape, but not exactly rolling in it.

    I heard something interesting the other day. Are there really going to be about 600 free agents looking for work? Adding in the 250 or so draftees and a plethora of UDFA players is gonna be close to 1,000 players in a mad scramble for not really that much cap money. Some teams will not use it all. If so, there may be a lot of decent players that have not yet realized that they have played their last NFL game.
  9. Wilfork#75

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    Then you add in cuts to Chad Johnson-OchoCinco, Mike Wright, Josh Barrett and the bottom of the roster guys that won't make the final 53, its closer to $40mil in cap space. Minus $5-6 for draft picks and you still have plenty of room to re-sign Welker, Sign Lloyd, make a spash with Mario Williams and maybe even take a look at guys like Kendall Langford and Adrian Wilson (if he gets cut). And with the cap expected to increase in 2014 with the new TV deal, none of these contracts, even a big one to Super Mario would handcuff the team long term.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  10. 102 Pat

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    I expect there to be a moment or two when I read about a Pats signing this off-season and have a "OMG" moment.
  11. ATippett56

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    Cutting Johnson, Wright, Barrett only saves about $4 million in cap space.

    Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2011 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page
  12. patsinthesnow

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  13. jsull87

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    101 with a cap of 125 and a carryover of 6 mil.

    Leaves us with 30 mill. 10 for franchise of Welker (7.5-8 if we sign a deal) add another 5 for rookies.

    We should have about 15 mill to sign our and other FA. (ihaven't included cuts e.g ocho gets cut we save 1.5 mil)

    Is 15M enough to get Lloyd and Mario Williams? Does this seam unrealistic as it would leave us without much cap room to sign Vet FA?

    Tell you what is awesome tho the below teams are going to have to get very creative and fast and hopefully a team with some room like the pats can take advantage of some cap casualties.

    Pittsburgh Steelers – $149.9

    Oakland Raiders – $140.9

    Carolina Panthers – $130

    Dallas Cowboys – $128.9

    New York Jets – $128.1

    New York Giants – $124.7
  14. IllegalContact

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    The pats pass rush still needs help.

    Simple too many stretches where opposing QBs have all day
  15. PatsWickedPissah

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  16. DonBlackmon55

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    Steelers have already lopped off 15mill via restructuring without having made any significant cuts.
  17. Wilfork#75

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    With the numbers I have, those three would save just under $5mil ($4.987). Then you account for the bottom of the roster guys that likely won't make the final 53 (Polite $700k, Underwood $615k, Thomas $750k, Ohrnberger $573k, Hartline, Rivera, Hix, Cox etc.) would all save about $5mil more. While those probably aren't real cap savings because those players need to be replaced, what it does do is cancel out most of the draft budget, where most of these players would be replaced.

    New England Patriots Salary Cap 2012

    I think thats enough to sign those two, especially if we can sign Welker to a long term deal instead of franchising him. I posted a hypothetical contract for Super Mario in another thread (7 years, $80mil, $35mil guaranteed, $21mil signing bonus) based on the DeMarcus Ware deal, accounting for inflation. Where his cap hit for year 1 was only $6mil and his cap hit for year 2 was only $6.9 mil. With a jump in salary in 2014 when the salary cap is expected to increase due to the new TV deal. So I definitely think we have the cap space for Williams, Lloyd and possibly more.
  18. NEP4Life

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    "Wow, I can't believe they didn't sign <this guy>."
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  19. Smokeeye123

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    Why get Mario and Lloyd when you could probably get Lloyd, Mathis, and sign a few vet min players.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  20. jsull87

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    ... so that puts them at 134 million still 9 million over before factoring in rookies... add another 5-6 mil. So they need to some how drop $14-$15 million just so they can sign some rookies.
  21. jsull87

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    Because Mario is a guy you can build a top 5 defense around and Mathis is a solid vet.

    Thats why Mario will get paid more.
  22. patsfan-1982

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    Ocho and Haynesworth were WOW moves they both sucked, Carter Anderson and Waters had the biggest impact on the team and they came to the pats as two vets no one wanted and a JAG that could not even find a back up roll on a team,

    WOW moves look great on paper and make us fans happy but most of the time they dont make you a better team you can ask the 2011 eagels that
  23. SeymourTrophies

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    You could ask the 2007 Patriots the same thing. Ocho and Haynesworth were salvage efforts. That situation is not comparable to signing Mario Williams, but he's going to command low teens per year which is just too much, regardless of whether or not he's worth it. Jared Allen could want an opportunity to win and take a paycut :D. Elephant role returneth.
  24. MoLewisrocks

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    Before people start adding in and spending the $6.6M in carryover, understand that much if not most of it will be eaten up by escalators and incentives met in several player contracts and not yet accounted for. We likely have a lot of guys who exceeded playing time projections this season... We've had rookie deals in the past where projected player salaries doubled as a result. Mike Wright was one example. As Andrew Brandt tweeted yesterday some teams with carryover and currently under the cap could still find themselves over it once those are factored in. We won't, but that isn't straight free additional 2012 cap space. It may already be accounted for.
  25. Rob0729

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    They are just idiots. They still think it is 2011. They read the Pro Football Talk article that said the Jets have $8 million left in money to carry over to this year's cap and the Pats have $6.6 million and they think that is this year's cap figures.
  26. Rob0729

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    By the time the Pats are done cutting guys like Ochocinco and Barrett and Mike Wright retiring, the Pats will be around $35 million under the cap. What they do with Matt Light (they could give him an extension just to spread his cap money over two years) and whether Waters retires or not could free up another $5 million.

    The Pats will have plenty of money to spend. I would assume that it will take about $15 million in cap dollars to lock up the free agents they want to retain (assuming Welker is franchised) and a few million less if Welker gets a long term deal. Assume that it will take $5 million for rookies. That means that the Pats will have between $15-25 million to acquire new players. Not a huge amount, but the Pats are likely to structure any long term deal so that the cap numbers are relatively low this year and next and let most of the cap hit occur in 2014 and beyond when the new TV deals kick in and the cap goes up a lot.
  27. NEGoldenAge

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    That's a good point, but I think in a significant amount of those cases, guys not counted by the cap get the escalators and bump someone off, making a small difference in cap hit. No matter how you slice it though, the Pats are in great cap shape even without any contract restructuring.

    The massive expanse of salary cap in a couple of years will get a lot of teams out of cap hell. The Patriots won't be in cap hell, instead, they'll be able to resign a solid core of young players coming off of their initial contracts (Gronk, Hernandez etc...), and still have plenty of money to make the team better.

    A play shy of winning the superbowl and in great cap shape with the cap about dramatically expand is a pretty unique situation. How will this affect BBs drafting strategy? I think the long term outlook for the Patriots has never been so bright.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  28. MoLewisrocks

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    The $6.6 is probably largely gone, spoken for in escalators and incentives. They will net around $3.5M in space if Wright and Ocho go, but their replacements will cost that and possibly more (although Lloyd may be off the grid since he apparently signed on with Tom Condon). They can eek out a couple of million more with back of the roster cuts, but since they are already at 52 the replacement cost will negate most of that saving. They aren't as inclined to postpone the inevitable as you think contract wise, they prefer to pay as you go. Pushing off any of Light's hit into 2013 would be unwise as they have lots of signings to deal with by then and the cap will remain flat.

    They'll have around $25M to work with and can manufacture another $5+ if needbe, but they won't manufacture it unless they need to. They will need at least $5M to sign draftees and another $5M or more in excess to cover end of season needs and potential rollover to cover next year's escalators and incentives met. They will need $9.4M to tag Welker and $2M+ to tender RFA and ERFA. They will do their due diligence but they won't be big players in top tier FA. They will shop the second wave and hit the bargain basement for closeouts in what will be a deep FA class as the draft approaches. In reality they will have about $5-$10M to play with. That will likely land them 4-5 FA in the mid level to JAG category as opposed to one let alone 2 perceived impact players. A couple of those are likely to be our own. This is how they remain competitive while staying out of the kind of cap bind some competitive and even non competitive teams persistently find themselves in. Much of any talent infusion will have to come via the draft.

    Bill liked this team on the whole so you aren't going to see wholesale changes, just some tweeking to add talent and reinforcements to make necessary replacements. Guys like Mario who will require nearly double digit to mid teens average deals won't get them here. We will have our quota of them already in Brady, Welker, Mankins and Wilfork. Add many more to that list and you will limit flexibility going forward to retain significant pieces of the core like the TE's and the experienced middle class.
  29. sieglo

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    I am looking for a big name DL pickup. Someone like Albert Haynesworth, maybe.
  30. reflexblue

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    Cater and Anderson are old in foot ball years, there is absolutely no guarantee that they could play up to the same level as last year, especially Carter. The D-line and pass rush have been ignored for many years now. The last time the Pats had a Really effective, consitant pass rush was when Vrable and Willie Mac were on the field at the same time.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
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