Patriots offered Mankins Top 3 Guard Pay

[BSR]

My gosh...this is getting silly. The Pats didn't trick Mankins, they did nothing that could even remotely be considered underhanded.

The fact is that Mankins was under contract in 2009, and as a man of his word, was obligated to play out that 2009 contract. He didn't give up anything by not negotiating a contract extension before or during the 2009 season. The Krafts could have said no to an extension for whatever reason they wanted. And under the terms of the CBA which he is a part of, he is a RFA. Sucks for him sure, but this wasn't an underhanded move by the Krafts. It is them using their rights under the system.

All this, he was promised this and that is just garbage. The patriots weren't obligated to make any sort of promises whatsoever. They didn't trick him out of anything as he didn't have any rights to be tricked out of. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. Would I rather have him on the team? Yeah, I would. Would I forget all about this if he walked back in tomorrow? Yup. But this "pats deceived him" stuff is just baseless.

It comes down to the fact that some people can't handle business negotiations and get too emotional. Like others, I put the blame on the agent. The fact that he couldn't help Mankins come to a reasonable choice is inexcusable. Crying to the media with this team should never have been a viable choice.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm done with you seeing as though you are unable to grasp the notion of what's put infront of you despite being happy to contemplate your own invented truths.

1.) You're arguing about the meaning of "addressed" when you weren't there to ascertain that meaning within the context of the discussion. You're basing your assertion on the notion that forcing someone to work for far less than they are worth by NOT giving them a new contract is "addressing". Apparently, Mankins rejects such a notion.

2.) The information we have so far backs up Mankins' claims.

3.) We don't have all the information.

4.) I've repeatedly noted that Mankins should be pissed at the NFLPA for agreeing to that part of the CBA, even while noting that the Patriots may have been shady on this.


There's nothing invented there, and nothing I've failed to grasp.

 

[ausbacker]

1.) You're arguing about the meaning of "addressed" when you weren't there to ascertain that meaning within the context of the discussion. You're basing your assertion on the notion that forcing someone to work for far less than they are worth by NOT giving them a new contract is "addressing". Apparently, Mankins rejects such a notion.

2.) The information we have so far backs up Mankins' claims.

3.) We don't have all the information.

4.) I've repeatedly noted that Mankins should be pissed at the NFLPA for agreeing to that part of the CBA, even while noting that the Patriots may have been shady on this.


There's nothing invented there, and nothing I've failed to grasp.

There's plenty you've failed to grasp given your penchant for assumption and as I've already written that I won't be continuing this discussion with you further you can consider this my last communique with you regarding the Logan Mankins issue.

 

[SanAngeloState]

If he signed an extention starting next year, if he HAD signed an extension, would the pats have paid the SB right now? If so, what's the difference if he's playing on tender this year?

Anyway, so he has to come back at some point to get credit for the season. Can the pats put him on "suspension" like someone did with TO a few years ago? Just tell him not to show up?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Some people just don't read well or don't read completely. I feel the people arguing that Logan is crappy have more than explained why. I'm not taking either side in the argument, but I was able to read and understand exactly why some are calling him crappy, and it has nothing to do with homerism.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: The next domino to fall in the Mankins saga

I really hate to even comment in these threads, but if mankins can't cut a deal this year, and let's say it looks like there won't be football next year, I wonder what his prospects of cashing in will be with a new cba looming, and that's on top of possibly 2 yrs of lost revenue.

meanwhile, the pats will just roll out whoever's on the 53 this year, and draft another body next year at rookie wage scale.

it's like the guy's pissed at a 10 buck offer, so he's going to end up taking 6 bucks.

Yeah, you're right. I'm not taking sides in this, as none of us really know what's been discussed and how things have gone down between the sides, but it's really looking like a loss for Mankins, professionally and especially financially. There's no way he commands more money a year (and possibly two) than he does right now.

 

[Patjew]

Re: The next domino to fall in the Mankins saga

I'm absolutely certain you're invested in the Logan Mankins process given the PR you try to garner for him in multiple threads over time.

I don't "hate" Logan Mankins but I do resent his comments. What he needs is a new manager who is competent in his dealings, not one who provides him poor advice like Frank Bauer has been.

The problem is that you resent them whether they are true or not

You never denied it. I guess we can assume that you are invested in this process. Well, you ain't helping him.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: The next domino to fall in the Mankins saga

IllegalContact made it onto my ignore list yesterday. Judging by everyone's responses to him, looks like I made the right call

 

[Miguel]

My guess would be looking at a measure other than the AAV...which of course is the most meaningless. Could be guaranteed money, guaranteed percentage, first three take...you know that.

Given that the "league source" first characterized the offer as a 5-year $35 million deal I do not know why anyone would believe their current characterization of the deal. Breer blogged that "My understanding is that the offer on the table was a five-year extension off his RFA tender from this year (before it was chopped down), and would legitimately make him the third-highest paid guard in the league, with the requisite guarantees and bonuses." Given what Breer was told, I feel that the league source was using AAV.

 

[Miguel]

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Agent for Logan Mankins on contract negotiations with the Patriots: ”It’s dead.”

provides more details on the Patriots' offers. I doubt that the Patriots' final offer would have paid Mankins close to what Jahri Evans got in the first 3 years of his deal ($25.6 million) if they wanted him to compensate him in 2010 just the RFA tender.

$42.5 million total
$3.2 first year
$16.9 last four years ($42.5 minus $25.6)
means paying $22.4 million in 2011 and 2012 which would be more money than Wilfork got in his contract for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. I doubt that would be ever true.

 

[Miguel]

This is a perspective I haven't heard before, and I can't say it's not the truth.

1. He was called a reach when the Patriots drafted him. Check.

He was called a reach by fans. I remember that the 49ers were hoping to take him with the 33rd pick.
49ers Blog and Q&A: McCloughan's picks: Where are they now?

2. He earned first round money because the Patriots reached. Check.

He earned first round money because he was drafted in the 1st round. The difference between his contract and the 33rd overall pick is small.
[/quote]

3. He made the Pro Bowl because he happened to be on the most insane offense in history. Check.

So his play had nothing to do with his Pro Bowl selections. Mankins was getting mentioned as a top echelon guard BEFORE the 2007 season

 

[vyrago]

So we have a bunch of fundamentalist pats fans who are joining the anti-mankins jihad .

Riddle me this, bat boys......if the pats don't talk, then how did anyone find out about what he was offered? So they tell some message boy to blab some stupidity where some writer with inside info hears it, and you followers consume it like it came from the fountain of truth.

Well this is certainly enlightening and sure to further discussion.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Mankins is a great guard and we could use him. If true (I always worry about "insiders" like Breer), then I agree that Mankins has no beef. $6 or $7M a year is good money - more than I will ever see.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Mankins is a great guard and we could use him. If true (I always worry about "insiders" like Breer), then I agree that Mankins has no beef. $6 or $7M a year is good money - more than I will ever see.

This makes zero sense.

If you think you are the best guard in the league and experts say you're at least top 3, then why should being paid as the 10th best guard make you happy?

Look back at the previous page, Miguel goes into detail that based on the reports, Mankins was set to only make 6.4M per year over 6 years, far from the "top 3 money" that has been widely reported in the smear campaign against him.

As for your argument about 6M being "good money", if you can't separate your own personal life and perceptions about money compared to the best athletes in the world and what they can get in a market, then you'd think the same way for any athlete or entertainer, not just about Mankins.

 

[SanAngeloState]

If he signed an extention starting next year, if he HAD signed an extension, would the pats have paid the SB right now? If so, what's the difference if he's playing on tender this year?

Anyway, so he has to come back at some point to get credit for the season. Can the pats put him on "suspension" like someone did with TO a few years ago? Just tell him not to show up?

I like how I make really good points, but my posts get ignored.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Agent for Logan Mankins on contract negotiations with the Patriots: ”It’s dead.”

provides more details on the Patriots' offers. I doubt that the Patriots' final offer would have paid Mankins close to what Jahri Evans got in the first 3 years of his deal ($25.6 million) if they wanted him to compensate him in 2010 just the RFA tender.

$42.5 million total
$3.2 first year
$16.9 last four years ($42.5 minus $25.6)
means paying $22.4 million in 2011 and 2012 which would be more money than Wilfork got in his contract for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. I doubt that would be ever true.

THANK YOU, again.

As you noted on a prior page, all the reports are that they offered a 5 year/35M deal, for after the RFA year where he would play at 3.5M, ultimately making it 6 years for 6.4M per year at average. That would only make him paid like a top 10 guard, not the top 3 guard as widely reported. It's the same smear campaign that Wilfork experienced last year mid-season, when pre-emptive reports came out (who knows if they were true) that Wilfork was offered X dollars and didn't re-sign to paint him as the bad guy if he didn't re-sign.

If you're Logan Mankins and unlike a lot of other players from your class, you played out the entirety of your long, crappy underpaid rookie deal, and expected to get re-upped without playing the RFA offer. Then, you find out that the team expects you to play one more year way underpaid again, and after that to get offered a salary 1/5 below that of where you think you are worth.

I think a lot of people here would completely change their positions if they were actually Logan Mankins.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Here comes the inevitable smear campaign and character assassination of Logan Mankins!!

No matter what spin the Patriots and the media try to put out there, the most detailed reports still suggest that Mankins was offered 1/5 lower what the highest paid guard was offered.

Bill Simmons newest article covers a similar situation where John Hannah held out from the Pats, for similar reasons:
Bill Simmons: NFL training camp means holdouts - ESPN

That article also went into how Brady basically got screwed by the Pats because he took a massive discount with his 2005 deal, and the Pats didn't really use that extra money to help keep the core around (like Branch).

On the radio a few weeks ago, one of the hosts recounted how after that 1st championship, when they renegotiated with Brady the Pats still insisted on not paying a paltry $20,000 bonus. In the 2005 deal, Brady never forgot this and made them re-add that bonus into the contract!!

Do not quote Yippee Simmons if you want to be taken seriously. Bottom line is Mankins was the one who ran his mouth in the media and made some very strong comments in which he accused the Patriots of being liars. Now his lawyer is once again running his mouth because now they're getting nervous.
The Patriots aren't calling, the games on the field are starting to be played, his boy is at home with his thumb in his mouth and the Patriots are in the process of replacing him. Mankins and his lawyer are the ones who've engaged in character assasination. The Patriots have released contract info to the media only after Mankins and his lawyer ran their mouths.

 

[PATSNUTme]

FWIW, Pro Football Weekly has Mankins rated as the 5th best guard.

Many have said we should just trade him.Here is the problem. Is there any team that would be willing to pay Mankins what he wants and give up a player or a high draft pick for him?

Personally I don't think there would be unless they are stupid.

 

[upstater1]

He was called a reach by fans. I remember that the 49ers were hoping to take him with the 33rd pick.
49ers Blog and Q&A: McCloughan's picks: Where are they now?


He earned first round money because he was drafted in the 1st round. The difference between his contract and the 33rd overall pick is small.

So his play had nothing to do with his Pro Bowl selections. Mankins was getting mentioned as a top echelon guard BEFORE the 2007 season[/QUOTE]

What's the difference between #32 and #45?

The entire Patriots line practically made the Pro Bowl that year, even Koppen. Brady was a large part of their success. Do I believe Mankins makes the Pro Bowl if he's not blocking for Brady or Manning or Rivers? No. I don't think he does.

 

[upstater1]

This makes zero sense.

If you think you are the best guard in the league and experts say you're at least top 3, then why should being paid as the 10th best guard make you happy?

Look back at the previous page, Miguel goes into detail that based on the reports, Mankins was set to only make 6.4M per year over 6 years, far from the "top 3 money" that has been widely reported in the smear campaign against him.

As for your argument about 6M being "good money", if you can't separate your own personal life and perceptions about money compared to the best athletes in the world and what they can get in a market, then you'd think the same way for any athlete or entertainer, not just about Mankins.

What makes Mankins more deserving than Seymour, Warren or Brady? All of them had their final year averaged into their re-ups. It's common practice for teams who hold your rights to give you a new contract KNOWING that the first year is going to bring the average down precisely because the team holds your rights. And this isn't a one way street either. Picks fail. Some of these guys get the money up front, and then they proceed to do nothing. Jon Burch was picked only 10 picks after Logan Mankins. Heck, Ben Watson had an even longer contract than Mankins, and by the end of his time here, I can't say he exceeded his contract. In retrospect, it was a good deal for him.

I put Mankins in Deion Branch's class. He won't acknolwedge that the Patriots own his rights for the last year, and by regular practice, that should figure into the contract negotiations.