Patriots In the Lead of Peppers Pack?

[Rob0729]

I think Peppers would stay at DE for the most part if NE landed him.

Hes 6' 7". That would be one tall OLB, IMO.

He would be a waste at DE and probably not big enough. You do not want an elite pass rusher at DE in the Pats' 3-4 because one of their primary role is gap control and opening up lanes for others to make plays. Why would you want an elite pass rusher to tie up two o-linemen so the LB can rush the passer?

 

[JSn]

I don't think the solution to being caution in a labor uncertainty is sitting it out. You get creative. You can offer attractive contracts to players that have roster bonuses tied to the 2011 season. That way you protect yourself in a work stoppage. I am sure that is how most teams will work.

Hadn't thought of that. Very sensible.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think the solution to being caution in a labor uncertainty is sitting it out. You get creative. You can offer attractive contracts to players that have roster bonuses tied to the 2011 season. That way you protect yourself in a work stoppage. I am sure that is how most teams will work.

Only problem with that is that from a player's perspective, roster bonuses are not considered "guarantees".

 

[chevss454]

Only problem with that is that from a player's perspective, roster bonuses are not considered "guarantees".

With no cap, both Peppers & Wilfork could be signed if their deals were front loaded regarding signing bonus money from what I understand. The 2nd year salary would have to be >50% of the first yr. salary and that could be used to get under the cap in 2011. Of course, this would depend on how much money RK is willing to make available for this year.

There are posters here who know much more than I do about this, so a little input please?!

I agree with Patjew...SIGN THE BEASTS!

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

-The Pats would be better off in signing Peppers and moving to a 4-3 or a one gap 3-4 which is a lot easier to build as you can have smaller players. The Pats have had trouble in the last 5 years finding the right players that fit their 2 gap 3-4 system. LB's that are 6-4 250 and run a 4.5 are not going to walking through the door anytime soon.

-Mayo would be a lot better as a 4-3 MLB than a SILB. Or they need someone nasty to play SILB and allow Mayo to be a roamer.

-They should do one of two things with Wilfork. Either franchise Wilfork and get some trade value out of him, or they can keep Wilfork and have Pryor complement him.

- Use the early picks to select an OLB, DE, or DT (if Wilfork is traded).

 

[Triumph]

He would be a waste at DE and probably not big enough. You do not want an elite pass rusher at DE in the Pats' 3-4 because one of their primary role is gap control and opening up lanes for others to make plays. Why would you want an elite pass rusher to tie up two o-linemen so the LB can rush the passer?

On run downs his primary job would be to control gaps, but not on passing downs when Offensive lineman are backpedaling into a defensive stance.

On pass downs his primary job is simple - sack/pressure/hurry the QB. Thats it.

It doesnt matter who gets there.

Its a myth that NE DEs dont rush the passer. Seymour had 8 sacks in 08 and 8 sacks in 03 when NE had its best D of Belichicks tenure.

Why would you want a 6' 7" pass rusher like Peppers dropping into coverage like NE's OLB's do on so many pass downs?

 

[Grizzafted]

Provided the Patriots let Bodden walk, is there actually enough cap space to sign Peppers to, say a 10 million dollar a year contract and Wilfork to something similar? I understand they'll both get huge signing bonuses, but if we're operating under the assumption that the Pats are going to act "as if" in regards to this year's nonexistent cap, is there enough money to sign those two to long-term deals? I think they're both no-brainers, whereas our other free agents are not very high-priority (with Mankins being an RFA).

Those two are both worth long term deals at 10 million a piece. Add a few linebackers and young cornerbacks and you've got a core defensive unit of Mayo, Meriweather, Warren, Peppers, Wilfork, and Banta-Cain. I think you could get away with a lot of JAGs in the backfield and on the line and have a top five unit with those personnel. I don't understand what logic wouldn't dictate opening up the purse for both Wilfork and Peppers.

We are thin at wide reciever and RB, but if you sign those two you have the pieces to look at some offensive guys on day one of the draft instead of going defense. Fresh young legs at RB would be good, but you can find that in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Maybe Golden Tate and OL with the first few picks (so hard to predict that kind of thing with BB).

This is a big year. Having those two guys happy and well-paid for the next five years, in addition to Mayo and Meriweather, is a recipe for a solid defense. I'd be willing to stay thin at CB and let Bodden walk if we got a real pass rush out of a guy like Peppers.

 

[bucky]

-The Pats would be better off in signing Peppers and moving to a 4-3 or a one gap 3-4 which is a lot easier to build as you can have smaller players. The Pats have had trouble in the last 5 years finding the right players that fit their 2 gap 3-4 system. LB's that are 6-4 250 and run a 4.5 are not going to walking through the door anytime soon.

-Mayo would be a lot better as a 4-3 MLB than a SILB. Or they need someone nasty to play SILB and allow Mayo to be a roamer.

-They should do one of two things with Wilfork. Either franchise Wilfork and get some trade value out of him, or they can keep Wilfork and have Pryor complement him.

- Use the early picks to select an OLB, DE, or DT (if Wilfork is traded).

I agree. Getting Peppers might mean having to let Wilfork walk - and those 2 things in combination would mean the Pats are better suited to play 4-3. Which is fine with me.

I would be weary of paying Peppers Freeney/Haynesworth type money ($12 mil/yr for 4+ years) since he is 30 and probably has 2-3 good years left. But if we can get him around 4 years, $36 mil, I would rather have Peppers that Wilfork.

Just to chime in on that AD contract, he signed for 5 years and $35 mil. And I bet in 2007 people were thinking he's a bargain. He had 1.5 pretty good years here, but was a major disappointment last year.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i can't see signing a 30 year old pass rusher who takes plays off. and asking him to play a new position. that he has never played befor. in a system that he will be asked to stop the run and cover just as much as he will be asked to rush the QB i see him as AD #2

 

[Rob0729]

Only problem with that is that from a player's perspective, roster bonuses are not considered "guarantees".

The players may not have a choice. I can almost guarantee you that most of the teams are going to look for insurance if there is an uncapped year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The players may not have a choice. I can almost guarantee you that most of the teams are going to look for insurance if there is an uncapped year.

Oh I agree 100% that teams will insert various safeguards in contracts if there is a lockout in 2011. I just think players will insist on the money as guaranteed in 2010 as opposed to it being deferred in 2011.

It'll be interesting.

 

[Rob0729]

On run downs his primary job would be to control gaps, but not on passing downs when Offensive lineman are backpedaling into a defensive stance.

On pass downs his primary job is simple - sack/pressure/hurry the QB. Thats it.

It doesnt matter who gets there.

Its a myth that NE DEs dont rush the passer. Seymour had 8 sacks in 08 and 8 sacks in 03 when NE had its best D of Belichicks tenure.

Why would you want a 6' 7" pass rusher like Peppers dropping into coverage like NE's OLB's do on so many pass downs?

That is not neccessarily true. Many times in passing situations, the DE in the 3-4 is responsible for tying up blockers so other can make plays?

Why would I want a former North Carolina Tar Heels basketball player now NFL DE or OLB in the Pats' system dropping into coverage and covering TEs like Antonio Gates who is 6'4" or Dallas Clark who is 6'3"? Other than he can run fast and jump high and is strong enough to fight for balls, I don't know what Peppers could add to the coverage game.

Seriously, guys like Peppers usually become TEs, not DEs. I don't see how his size would hurt his ability to drop into coverage. In fact, I think it would help because it would make it more difficult for the QB to get ball over him even if he is throwing beyond the guy he is covering.

Peppers was a sprinter in high school. He was a high school and college basketball player (and even played in the Final Four). The only reason I could see his height being a problem would be that it would make him slow, but he isn't slow. A fast tall guy is an asset in coverage because it is harder to pass on a tall guy as long as he can cover.

 

[condon84]

That is not neccessarily true. Many times in passing situations, the DE in the 3-4 is responsible for tying up blockers so other can make plays?

Why would I want a former North Carolina Tar Heels basketball player now NFL DE or OLB in the Pats' system dropping into coverage and covering TEs like Antonio Gates who is 6'4" or Dallas Clark who is 6'3"? Other than he can run fast and jump high and is strong enough to fight for balls, I don't know what Peppers could add to the coverage game.

Seriously, guys like Peppers usually become TEs, not DEs. I don't see how his size would hurt his ability to drop into coverage. In fact, I think it would help because it would make it more difficult for the QB to get ball over him even if he is throwing beyond the guy he is covering.

Peppers was a sprinter in high school. He was a high school and college basketball player (and even played in the Final Four). The only reason I could see his height being a problem would be that it would make him slow, but he isn't slow. A fast tall guy is an asset in coverage because it is harder to pass on a tall guy as long as he can cover.

IF we do end up getting Peppers and he ends up covering TEs and RBs like AD does for the most part, then that would be idiotic. Yes, he can be a disruption in coverage but taking him away from doing what he does best is nonsensical.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IF we do end up getting Peppers and he ends up covering TEs and RBs like AD does for the most part, then that would be idiotic. Yes, he can be a disruption in coverage but taking him away from doing what he does best is nonsensical.

Peppers will not be covering TEs. He'll be on his feet or a hand on the ground 500 times, ears pinned back ready to mame somone with a number in the teens.

 

[Rob0729]

IF we do end up getting Peppers and he ends up covering TEs and RBs like AD does for the most part, then that would be idiotic. Yes, he can be a disruption in coverage but taking him away from doing what he does best is nonsensical.

Well, you don't always have to rush your best rushers. I don't think it is nonsensical to drop Peppers into coverage especially since he has a high amount of pass defenses and INTs for a DE. Some of the best defenses are ones where the QB doesn't know where the rush is on passing downs. If Peppers is rushing every play, that takes away some of the predictabilty. Heck when the Pats defense was at its best, it wasn't all that uncommon to see Seymour drop into coverage from time to time.

 

[Rob0729]

Peppers will not be covering TEs. He'll be on his feet or a hand on the ground 500 times, ears pinned back ready to mame somone with a number in the teens.

I don't agree with that. If Peppers does come to NE, there will be times he drops into coverage. Belichick has all his OLBs do it from time to time and even some of his DEs.

 

[bucky]

I don't agree with that. If Peppers does come to NE, there will be times he drops into coverage. Belichick has all his OLBs do it from time to time and even some of his DEs.

He'll be like Willie Mac. Though if Peppers comes and Vince leaves, it could mean more 4-3.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't agree with that. If Peppers does come to NE, there will be times he drops into coverage. Belichick has all his OLBs do it from time to time and even some of his DEs.

I agree but I don't think hes ever had (hopefully!!!) a pass rushing threat like Peppers before (except LT who did drop into coverage now and then but for the most part, rushed the passer 400-500 times a year.).

Athletically, is he capable? Absolutely. Scheme/intelligence-wise can he do it? I assume so and with his experience I assume he could. Willingly? Don't know but my guess is yes. It's not like he'll be like Rodney or Roman or Willie Mac chasing TEs on seam patterns 10 times a game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He'll be like Willie Mac. Though if Peppers comes and Vince leaves, it could mean more 4-3.

That is exactly what will happen IMO. He'll be upright on 3-4 sets too.

 

[Triumph]

That is not neccessarily true. Many times in passing situations, the DE in the 3-4 is responsible for tying up blockers so other can make plays?

Why would I want a former North Carolina Tar Heels basketball player now NFL DE or OLB in the Pats' system dropping into coverage and covering TEs like Antonio Gates who is 6'4" or Dallas Clark who is 6'3"? Other than he can run fast and jump high and is strong enough to fight for balls, I don't know what Peppers could add to the coverage game.

Seriously, guys like Peppers usually become TEs, not DEs. I don't see how his size would hurt his ability to drop into coverage. In fact, I think it would help because it would make it more difficult for the QB to get ball over him even if he is throwing beyond the guy he is covering.

Peppers was a sprinter in high school. He was a high school and college basketball player (and even played in the Final Four). The only reason I could see his height being a problem would be that it would make him slow, but he isn't slow. A fast tall guy is an asset in coverage because it is harder to pass on a tall guy as long as he can cover.

All I can tell you is that watch the tape when NE plays a team like Indy. NE will rush 3 DL vs 5 OL because its a numbers mismatch in NEs favor dropping everyone else into coverage. Wherein the problem lies is that those 3 have to enventually get pressure. And, thats where Peppers comes in.

Peppers is used to be being double teamed as a DE and still he creates pressure.

Wouldnt it be counter productive to take your stud pass rusher and drop into coverage vs a TE? Manning and Rivers would be sending Belichick gift coupons to Mortons steak house if he used Peppers like that. One of the best pass rushers in the NFL is chasing 1 TE around the field. At this point, thats not his strength at all even if he can grasp the concepts of OLB in a 3 - 4.

How much coverage has Peppers played in the NFL? I'm not really convinced because he played basketball back in college that he can automatically pick up where he left off.

It makes the most sense to put Peppers in Seymours old spot and conduct business as usual for the time being. The transition could be almost seamless because Peppers doesnt have to learn an entirely new position.