Patriot's HOF question - Moss

[Ive_Killed_People]

Ummm....Mr. Bledsoe, I am sorry, but we must take back that induction from last year. Our apologies.

Bledsoe was a horrible teammate that year,I agree. But at least he had a reason to be a problem,right or wrong. The other guys I listed were just traitors. And yes I have no problem calling them traitors and yes I take football WAY too seriously.

 

[Ring 6]

Vinadouche never tried to get a counter-offer from the Pats. He went to a team that his fan-base detests without giving NE a chance to counter-offer

You should be grateful for his contributions, not upset because the team didn't make him a reasonable offer, and were fine with him leaving.

Law was a "get paid" jerk who never cared about anything but money

Law was a guy we don't win 2 SBs without. You are an idiot if you think he cared about nothing but money, just because he cared about money.

Martin was a "Tuna-sniffer" I am so glad he never won anything. How can you be so loyal to a guy who has no loyalty himself?

I have no loyalty at all to Curtis Martin. I'm just honest about what happened. Are you telling me you would pass up an offer to follow Bill Parcells, who drafted you and led you to a SB, in order to play for Pete Carroll after Bobby Grier essentially laughed in your face and said you have to play out your rookie contract before we even consider a new deal? The Patriots screwed up the Martin deal, whether Parcells was involved or not.

Parcells -If I have to tell you why Parcells should be persona non grata then you obviously are not a Pats fan

Parcells was nominated by the team, and almost voted in by the fans. I do not think he should go in, but perhaps you should get some facts straight before you talk shlt

But remember I never said these players WOULDNT get inducted just that they SHOULDNT

And I just pointed out your reasons are foolish.

 

[patfanken]

Parcells was nominated by the team, and almost voted in by the fans. I do not think he should go in, but perhaps you should get some facts straight before you talk shlt

Actually Andy, the nomination committee, IIRC, is made up mostly of members of the media, and past Pats players. I'm not sure that the Pats FO is even part of it, but if it is, its just one part of the committee.

Also IIRC, Parcells was never close at getting in, with most Pats fans showing the good sense to reject him at the polls. IMHO, Parcell's nominations have been media driven, by guys who are nostalgic for the good old days when they had a guy who would give them the kind of quotes and pressers that made their jobs easy. A stark contrast the great volumes of nothing they get out of BB and his well trained players

 

[PatsDeb]

I agree with OP. He should be in Canton, but the way he left the team (essentially fired for bad attitude) should keep him out of the Pats HOF. There are other more deserving Patriots who should get in.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

You should be grateful for his contributions, not upset because the team didn't make him a reasonable offer, and were fine with him leaving.


Law was a guy we don't win 2 SBs without. You are an idiot if you think he cared about nothing but money, just because he cared about money.


I have no loyalty at all to Curtis Martin. I'm just honest about what happened. Are you telling me you would pass up an offer to follow Bill Parcells, who drafted you and led you to a SB, in order to play for Pete Carroll after Bobby Grier essentially laughed in your face and said you have to play out your rookie contract before we even consider a new deal? The Patriots screwed up the Martin deal, whether Parcells was involved or not.


Parcells was nominated by the team, and almost voted in by the fans. I do not think he should go in, but perhaps you should get some facts straight before you talk shlt


And I just pointed out your reasons are foolish.

How insulting can you be? I mean really calling people idiots and foolish? Does the guy with the IveKilledPeople moniker have to be the one to call for civility here?

Parcells was not close to getting in by the votes. And exactly what facts am I suppose to be wrong on? Parcell's was in talks with the Jets while he was taking their division rival to the Superbowl. He was a HUGE distraction leading up to the game and coached a horrible horrible game. So you can love him all you want but dont expect most Patriot fans to do the same.

Ty Law whined like a little baby and went to KC and the Jets. Money may not have been everything to Mr. Law but winning certainly mattered not at all.

To say we should be grateful for what they did for the team sounds all sweet and all but most people including me dont forgive quite so easily. If your wife porked the plumber would you say: "Look,It's cool I appreciate all the good times we had so I will set up this shrine in her honor, besides he was a hell of a plumber!"

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

How insulting can you be? I mean really calling people idiots and foolish? Does the guy with the IveKilledPeople moniker have to be the one to call for civility here?

Its just Andy, you'll get used to it

I would just like to point out that Martin was a model person while he was here. He was a restricted FA that year, and the jets made a huge offer that the Pats basically laughed at. What was Martin supposed to do? Refuse the offer, and stay a Patriot, knowing that the next season he would be a FA, and the Pats would lowball him on a new contract? He wouldve been gone in 98, or tagged, and miserable. Bottom line, the front office was a joke with Grier. I don't blame Martin. The rest of the players you mentioned, well, im on the fence about.

As for the OPs question......There's a long list of great Pats that should get in, long before anyone ever mentions Moss. I would personally say no. One great season doesnt make you worthy of such an honor. IMO

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Which 5 fans said yes?

You really have to be a total buffoon to believe that he deserves the HOF from one great season,2 fairly good seasons and a 2 game season of FAIL.

He will surely reach Canton.....not NE

Hell,he deserves more into the Vikings HOF than he does here.

 

[ausbacker]

Which 5 fans said yes?

You really have to be a total buffoon to believe that he deserves the HOF from one great season,2 fairly good seasons and a 2 game season of FAIL.

He will surely reach Canton.....not NE

Hell,he deserves more into the Vikings HOF than he does here.

I voted yes. Despite whatever personal feelings you have toward Randy Moss and the way in which he left the Patriots, the fact is he produced record setting performances in a juggernaut offense. That deserves recognition. That doesn't mean he goes in straight away, it just means he goes in at some point.

He put up over 1000 yards and 11 TDs with Matt Cassel, a QB who hadn't started since High School.

That reminds me, damn Welker and Moss were immense for the Patriots in 2008.

 

[Peachhead]

No. He had one or two really great years. That's it. The guys who belong in the Pats HOF were key members of the team for far longer and most had better attitudes while doing it.

 

[jlu52]

Randy had a great season and some other fine moments in a Patriots uniform. He was also the epitome of selfish during the course of his last season here, the exact opposite of a team player. Canton, yes, Patriots Place, no way!

 

[eagle eye]

Which 5 fans said yes?

You really have to be a total buffoon to believe that he deserves the HOF from one great season,2 fairly good seasons and a 2 game season of FAIL.

He will surely reach Canton.....not NE

Hell,he deserves more into the Vikings HOF than he does here.

Buffoon really? How dare you call me a buffoon because my opinion differs to yours. When you mature a bit and can make a good argument without slinging insults come back to me.

 

[ausbacker]

No. He had one or two really great years. That's it. The guys who belong in the Pats HOF were key members of the team for far longer and most had better attitudes while doing it.

It seems quite clear that Moss' 2010 is being held against him when subjectively rating his on field performance.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Actually what seems quite clear is most folks are assessing the question in historic perspective, as always should be the case, with the benefit of hindsight and not choosing to selectively remember his first season here and overvalue it relative to his entire body of work here. He had pretty pedestrian stats in his Cassel season (while Welker's actually improved) and when Brady returned those didn't rebound significantly. Welker led the team in receptions and yards in each of those two seasons.

And down the stretch in 2009 Brady and Welker spent significant time in their post game podium pressers reiterating how players needed to dig deep and push through whatever ailed them - largely to no avail. It was pretty clear to anyone who was open to grasping it at the time who they were attempting to address. We now know via comments in various outlets that Brady and the coaches were battling weekly to retain Moss' focus by continuing to game plan to target him even as his increasingly inconsistent performances flumoxed those attempts (something many here incorrectly attributed to Brady stubborness).

Randy returned to the post game podium following game 1 of the 2010 season, but only to articulate his well documented discomfort with his looming contract situation, which had been on display throughout the off season. After that game all game plan attempts to target him ceased as he had perhaps inadvertently shot his way out of town. He'd had one season for the ages here, followed up by two statistically acceptable but not stellar seasons as a #1 WR who had just been rewarded with a 3 year contract at top 3 average salary. Which is why he was traded 4 weeks into the last season of that deal. And that's simply not the resume of a teams HOF player.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

ehhh..no.even though that season was amazing

 

[eagle eye]

I've highligted one little sentence there but its running through your whole post as well. I have a question.
Since when was 1264 yards and 13 tds not a stellar season?

In three full seasons here Moss averaged 1255 yards and 15.6 tds per season. Even if you take out the phenomenal 2007 season he still averaged over 1100 yards and 12 tds which is well ahead of an average season for a no.1 receiver. And one of those years was when Brady was out and Matt Cassel was there. He had to share looks with Welker too which makes those numbers exceptional.

Actually what seems quite clear is most folks are assessing the question in historic perspective, as always should be the case, with the benefit of hindsight and not choosing to selectively remember his first season here and overvalue it relative to his entire body of work here. He had pretty pedestrian stats in his Cassel season (while Welker's actually improved) and when Brady returned those didn't rebound significantly. Welker led the team in receptions and yards in each of those two seasons.

And down the stretch in 2009 Brady and Welker spent significant time in their post game podium pressers reiterating how players needed to dig deep and push through whatever ailed them - largely to no avail. It was pretty clear to anyone who was open to grasping it at the time who they were attempting to address. We now know via comments in various outlets that Brady and the coaches were battling weekly to retain Moss' focus by continuing to game plan to target him even as his increasingly inconsistent performances flumoxed those attempts (something many here incorrectly attributed to Brady stubborness).

Randy returned to the post game podium following game 1 of the 2010 season, but only to articulate his well documented discomfort with his looming contract situation, which had been on display throughout the off season. After that game all game plan attempts to target him ceased as he had perhaps inadvertently shot his way out of town. He'd had one season for the ages here, followed up by two statistically acceptable but not stellar seasons as a #1 WR who had just been rewarded with a 3 year contract at top 3 average salary. Which is why he was traded 4 weeks into the last season of that deal. And that's simply not the resume of a teams HOF player.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Moss had one of the most dominating seasons of all time in a Patriot uniform. He had 3 very productive seasons for the team in which he registerd over 1,000 yards each season as well as a mindblowing 47 receiving TDs. It is unlikely we will ever see a receiver dominate for 3 consecutive years like that for the Pats. Moss fell off in year 4 and got traded as a result, but so what? It's about what he did on the field. Irving Fryar had most of his productive years outside of a Pats uni, but I don't hae any problem with him joining the Pats HOF. When it comes down to it, how important is the 16-0 season in Patriots lore? Because Moss was an integral part of making that season.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Its just Andy, you'll get used to it

I would just like to point out that Martin was a model person while he was here. He was a restricted FA that year, and the jets made a huge offer that the Pats basically laughed at. What was Martin supposed to do? Refuse the offer, and stay a Patriot, knowing that the next season he would be a FA, and the Pats would lowball him on a new contract? He wouldve been gone in 98, or tagged, and miserable. Bottom line, the front office was a joke with Grier. I don't blame Martin. The rest of the players you mentioned, well, im on the fence about.

RE: Martin: I guess my biggest problem with him was for years after he left he openly recruited Pats players in the media to join the Jets. That always rubbed me wrong.

 

[chicowalker]

No. Maybe if we had won the SB and gone 19-0, given his role that year. But no.

(Canton yes)

 

[Ron Sellers]

I noted earlier that it is virtually useless trying to compare stats between players from different eras, so take the following with a grain of salt. But for what it's worth here is how Randy Moss ranks in some all-time categories in the history of the Patriots franchise.


Career:

• 12th in receptions with 259 (was 11th when he departed; Deion Branch has since passed him)
• 10th in receiving yards with 3904 (was 9th, again since passed by Branch)
• 14th in yards per reception with 15.1
• 2nd in touchdowns and touchdown receptions with 50 (tied with Ben Coates)
• 2nd in receptions per game with 5.0
• 2nd in receiving yards per game with 75.1
• 7th in total points scored with 302

Season:

• 6th in receptions with 98; only Wes Welker (4x) and Troy Brown had more; also 14th (83) and 22nd (69)
• 2nd in receiving yards with 1493 (was 1st, since passed by Welker); also 6th (1264) and 16th (1008)
• 2nd in number of 1000-yard receiving seasons (3), tied with Stanley Morgan
• 1st in touchdown receptions (23); also 3rd (13) and 5th (11)
• 7th in receptions per game with 6.1
• 3rd in receiving yards per game with 93.3; also 9th (79.0)
• 1st in all touchdowns (23); also 5th (13)
• 7th in points scored (138); the next closest non-kicker ranks 24th

 

[Gumby]

Buffoon really? How dare you call me a buffoon because my opinion differs to yours. When you mature a bit and can make a good argument without slinging insults come back to me.

First, I think there is a difference in calling someone a 'buffoon' in direct response to them/quoting versus calling a group who voted a particular way 'buffoons'.

second, while name calling is not exactly a call to reasoned discourse and is unlikely to win over the opponent to your opinion.....
at the end of the day, THIS IS JUST A MESSAGE BOARD and he expressed the opinion that he thinks your opinion lacks foundation in reality or at least proportionality with a HOF goal. (a sentiment I would agree with).

It isn't like he made threats to track down your IP, & meet up with you in a parking lot or something. Your seemingly overblown indignation seems to speak that you arent that confident in the opinion you are defending - otherwise you could laugh off a silly insult like 'buffoon' which was not even directed specifically at you personnally. And how is calling someone 'immature' that much different name-calling than buffoon. (and yours was directed at a specific poster).

A HOF should be a limited pool of guys who had a DRAMATIC IMPACT on the Pats franchise over its 40+ year history. Moss just doesnt fit that bill. One year wonder, 2nd yr good team-mate, 3rd year chaos just isnt enough to rate bumping somebody like a Bledsoe or a Hannah, or Brown, Bruschi etc etc who had a decade long impact on the franchise.