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Patriots have a top 10 NFL defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Pessimistic Pete, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. Pessimistic Pete

    Pessimistic Pete Rookie

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  2. PATRlOT

    PATRlOT Banned

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    They're top 10 in points allowed. Which I guess is what matters most at the end of the day - the points you try to limit the opponent to.

    However the defence are "officially" ranked by yards allowed per game.

    They are 24th in that sense

    NFL Stats: by Team Category
  3. sb1

    sb1 Rookie

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    I'm going to hold off on the accolades until they play a lot better than they did on Sunday.
  4. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle Rookie

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    I don't know how "official" it is. I've always heard both, depending on which website you go to the result will default to either category.
  5. PATRlOT

    PATRlOT Banned

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    Whenever you hear a commentator or analyst say "they are the 24th ranked defense in the NFL" ....that's referring to yards allowed/game. That's how the NFL website ranks the teams too. It doesn't tell the whole story but it is what it is.

    We easily have potential to be a top 5 defense when healthy, but the injuries are far too much. The fact we're ranked 10th in points allowed is almost a miracle with all these injuries to be honest.
  6. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    I know it doesn't feel like they do but still... Considering who they've lost and all the other week to week injuries their dealing with, pretty incredible.
  7. Brady_12

    Brady_12 Rookie

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    Last time I checked, yards allowed means nothing. It's about points allowed and takeaways. The rest is noise.
  8. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    This is also skewed from early in the season when the defense was actually good.
  9. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Re: Re: Patriots have a top 10 NFL defense

    This.

    Weren't they allowing low teens through the first three games or something?
  10. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    All I know is they've been terrible as of late with the injuries. They've been bad in the redzone as well so I don't know how long you guys want to hold onto that title.
  11. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I remember seeing numbers like 11.8 and 14.1 around Week 6, but I'm disinclined to go do math right now.
  12. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Re: Re: Patriots have a top 10 NFL defense

    Oops. Disregard
  13. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Re: Re: Patriots have a top 10 NFL defense

    Fair enough. So if we are averaging 22ish now, that means since week six we have been puking up thirty a game or so each week. Granted the quick guestimation math is probably off by a point or two.

    Sure, sounds like a to ten defense to me, lol.
  14. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This couldn't be any truer.

    Since week #6 when both Wilfork/Mayo were out, they've since allowed a whopping 27-28 pts per game on average. Anyone who considers that a top 10 defense is fooling themselves. The numbers are terribly skewed. They may as well be from a different season.
  15. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I look at things a bit differently.

    I view how good the D is based on how many points the opposing team scores on a regular basis.

    Also need to take into account the circumstances (blowouts, short fields, garbage time, etc.)

    Lets say we start with the Jets game.

    Jets scored 23 offensive points. The ave 17...+6
    Dolphins scored 17. The ave 22. -5
    Steelers scored 31. Ave 22. +9
    Carolina scored 24. Ave 23. +1
    Denver scored 24 offensive points. Ave 38. -14
    HOU scored 31. Ave 19. +12
    CLE scored 26. Ave 20. +6

    Overall: +15.

    Steelers game was a blowout.
    A few short fields here and there...

    All in all while the defense is having a tough time stopping people consistently, its functional when you have a high-scoring offense to compliment it....which is a MAJOR question mark with Gronk out.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the biggest adjustment factor is the 17 points handed to Denver when we fumbled the first 3 times we had the ball that you can't really hang on the D.
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This argument has failed time and time again. Just like every other stat that goes into ranking a defense, yards allowed is significant.
  18. TonyTucker

    TonyTucker Rookie

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    And getting worse each week. They were second at one point giving up about 14 PPG, now it's 31, 34, 34, 26, etc.
  19. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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  20. varjao

    varjao Rookie

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    Statistics are like bikinis, shows everything apart from the most important.

    Let's face the reality, this defense can't hold $h.it
  21. BlueThunder

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    The D still has too many moving parts due to injuries. I think giving the D a few games with the same cast of characters in the starting lineup might improve things just a tad.
  22. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    Or the past few games overall.
  23. KamikazeKnight

    KamikazeKnight Rookie

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    That's a pretty stupid thing to say. You don't take bits and pieces and claim that one piece is more relevant than the others. You should be taking the entire body of work into consideration, and right now their body of work places them at #10 by points allowed.

    Simple concept, really.:rocker:
  24. aztecafut

    aztecafut Rookie

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    Maybe 'skewed' isn't the correct word but he still makes a valid point.. If we were top 5 defense after five weeks when we had everybody healthy and we've dropped down to top 10 after all the injuries, the way the defense is playing now they'll probably drop out of the top 15 by the end of the season.

    Especially once the playoffs start, the only thing that matters is how you're playing at the moment not how good you were at the beginning of the season. Even though some people might hate to admit it, we're not playing like a top 10 defense right now. Maybe not even top 20.
  25. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    Points Allowed
    - First 5 games: 21, 10, 3, 23, 13 = 14.0 per game
    - Last 8 games: 27, 30, 17, 31, 24, 31, 31, 26 = 27.1 per game

    So, uh, yeah. That 27.1 per game would put them 27th in the NFL. In other words, the defense was outstanding at the beginning of the season, but injuries have really caught up to them (Kelly, Wilfork, Mayo, Gregory, Talib, Dennard, etc.) and right now they're one of the worst defenses in the league by almost any reasonable measure.

    Doesn't mean they can't make a run at the Lombardi….Heck, the awful 2006 Colts' defense played well in the playoffs.
  26. aztecafut

    aztecafut Rookie

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    Another thing to add... Patriots defenses in past years seem to improve as the season goes on. Unfortunately this year due to the amount of injuries they've had they seem to be regressing. As the playoffs get closer and closer, that is not a good thing.
  27. PP2

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    How so?

    Yards aren't significant if you continually pile it up yet end the majority of your drives with FG's or turnovers.

    And as far as BB's defensive philosophy goes, we give up plenty of yards.
  28. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    No, the rest is not noise. Take a look at Tedy Bruschi's Defensive index:

    Tedy Bruschi's defensive index - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    Red Zone % is below average, and 3rd-Down % is absolutely putrid. They're no longer
    creating turnovers, and their Points Allowed average is increasing.

    As others have mentioned, this defense is getting worse, not better (which used to be
    the case in years past).
  29. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    The 2006 Colts D sucked in the regular season and got lucky with great matchups in the playoffs. The KC offense was terrible. So was BAL. They let up 27 offensive points to the WORST BB/TB Pats offense in the BB era and the Rex Grossman-led Bears were a joke.
  30. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pretty simple, actually. If your defense is giving up more yards to the opposition, it's giving up more first downs, which gives up more T.O.P. which, in turn, keeps your offense off the field where they cannot churn up yards, T.O.P. and score. Look at the game last night for a good example. San Diego didn't put up a 40burger, but they were moving the ball slowly and eating up yards throughout drives which, in turn, kept the league's top offense off the field. Those yards played their part in San Diego winning the game. Look at our defense for another example. At the beginning of the year, we were allowing less total yards per game than we are now. As the yards per game went up, so did the points per game.

    That was in the rebuilding period. In the dynasty years, even after the rules changes too effect, the defense didn't allow a whole lot of YPG. From 2010-2012 the team was allowing a lot of YPG but the red zone defense was going enough to keep the PPG down. Coach apparently wasn't happy with that because he made a lot of moves (such as bringing in Talib and moving McCourty to safety) to limit the yards, and it was effective until injuries took effect.

    Look, I'm not saying that yards is the most significant stat. As a matter of fact, I would put it like this in terms of importance...

    1. Points
    2. Turnovers
    3. Opposing QB rating
    4. Yards

    Bottom line is that ever stat that goes into rating a defense is significant. Yards are no different.

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