Patriots have a Top 10 defense

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The Titans were abysmal at the time the Patriots played them. Now? Not so much now, as you see by the points scored. The Buccaneers had a different starting quarterback in, and he was not better than Freeman. The Dolphins no longer have Ronnie Brown or Chad Pennington. The Patriots defense allowed Mark Sanchez to beat them.

When this is what's happening, the rankings become useless without context.

Let's just look at the Titans for the most obvious example:

10
31
17
17
9
0

That's the scoring for them to start the season, and up to the Patriots game, where they clearly quit on the game very early on.

30
34
41
20
20
17

That's the scoring for them since. So the Titans have gone from scoring an average of 14 ppg up to the Patriots game to an average of 33.7 ppg since.

To say the Patriots have given up the 7th fewest points is accurate. To say the Patriots have the #7 defense in the NFL is not. It's a below average defense.

Yeah and I don't think Kyle Orton and the Broncos are quite as good now as they were at the beginning of the season. Also Falcons opponents now are enjoying life without Michael Turner and Matt Ryan while we had to face both healthy. Weren't the Dolphins 0-3 before Henne took over, and now back in the playoff hunt? You can talk talk talk and make excuses either way but the #'s are right there. Our strength of schedule is on par with the rest of the league and we're 7th in PPG, deal with it.

 

[condon84]

I prefer to use my eyes to let me know how good/bad we are.

We are not a top 10 defense.

 

[BionicPatriot]

For any apoligists that are out there, ask yourself this. Do you trust the defense with the game in their hands? That tells you how good they are, just answer it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah and I don't think Kyle Orton and the Broncos are quite as good now as they were at the beginning of the season. Also Falcons opponents now are enjoying life without Michael Turner and Matt Ryan while we had to face both healthy. Weren't the Dolphins 0-3 before Henne took over, and now back in the playoff hunt? You can talk talk talk and make excuses either way but the #'s are right there. Our strength of schedule is on par with the rest of the league and we're 7th in PPG, deal with it.

I am dealing with it, because I look at stats in context. Feel free to listen to the analysts, both local and national, rather than just sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "7th in PPG!". It's a below average defense. That's just the reality of the situation. Pretending it's better than that isn't going to make it better, and it's not going to change the 7-5 record miraculously into 11-1.


p.s.
Denver up to the Patriots' game: 19.8 ppg
Denver post Patriots game: 20.1 ppg


P.P.S. Dolphins first 3 opponents: Falcons, Colts, Chargers

Dolphins victories:
Bills
Jets
Jets
Bucs
Panthers
Patriots

Dolphins losses:
Falcons
Colts
Chargers
Saints
Patriots
Bills

6-6 and the only team with a winning record that they've beaten is the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

For any apoligists that are out there, ask yourself this. Do you trust the defense with the game in their hands? That tells you how good they are, just answer it.

Belichick doesn't. (see 4th and 2)

 

[BionicPatriot]

Belichick doesn't. (see 4th and 2)

Well than there ya go. This isn't close to a top ten defense. They're awesome against **** teams, but when that game is on the line, you just know those huge completions are comin' fast.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I am dealing with it, because I look at stats in context. Feel free to listen to the analysts, both local and national, rather than just sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "7th in PPG!". It's a below average defense. That's just the reality of the situation. Pretending it's better than that isn't going to make it better, and it's not going to change the 7-5 record miraculously into 11-1.

I don't listen to analysts. And I dont use this ranking to tell me it's an elite defense. But it definitely says it's not as bad a defense as many of you claim. Unless you've watched every game of each of the other 31 defenses which I doubt any of you have, how can you even be so sure how it stacks up according to what you see?

 

[mb6592]

Moving from 7 to 14-16 seems a bit extreme. 10-12 seems more reasonable.

IN ANY CASE, having the #7 defense or the #10 or even the #14 is NOT terrible.

Top 10? Please. 10-12 or 14-16? Who cares? This defense almost always lets down when it matters most, and has for some time (even against the likes of Orton, Henne & Sanchez). I understand that this defense is not the defense of the last few years, so I guess we have to give it more time - but, I don't think things will change until we get some pass rushers. This is a passing rushing league now, the DB's are less important (unless you have a Revis - I hate to admit). The Saints beat us with CB's that were furniture movers the week before.

 

[mb6592]

I prefer to use my eyes to let me know how good/bad we are.

We are not a top 10 defense.

Exactly....

 

[mgteich]

You're right. The offense can't score more than 3.5 points in the last half of games, half of which were set up by the defense of special.

The defense needs to be one of the top 3 defense in the league to be expected to win when the offense is not scoring any points at all in the second half. Thid would need to be a special kind of defense.

Top 10? Please. 10-12 or 14-16? Who cares? This defense almost always lets down when it matters most, and has for some time (even against the likes of Orton, Henne & Sanchez). I understand that this defense is not the defense of the last few years, so I guess we have to give it more time - but, I don't think things will change until we get some pass rushers. This is a passing rushing league now, the DB's are less important (unless you have a Revis - I hate to admit). The Saints beat us with CB's that were furniture movers the week before.

 

[mb6592]

Belichick doesn't. (see 4th and 2)

Exactly. Please, if Belichick thought this was anywhere near a top 10 defense, no way he makes that call.

 

[mb6592]

You're right. The offense can't score more than 3.5 points in the last half of games, half of which were set up by the defense of special.

The defense needs to be one of the top 3 defense in the league to be expected to win when the offense is not scoring any points at all in the second half. Thid would need to be a special kind of defense.

Alas, you hit on another major problem (of which this team has many).

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't listen to analysts. And I dont use this ranking to tell me it's an elite defense. But it definitely says it's not as bad a defense as many of you claim. Unless you've watched every game of each of the other 31 defenses which I doubt any of you have, how can you even be so sure how it stacks up according to what you see?

I believe the only team I haven't seen play this season is the Rams, and I'm pretty sure that I don't need to see them to know about where they fall. The Patriots defense is below average right now, regardless of the scoring totals. That's just the way it is.

Hopefully that will improve over the remainder of the season. Keeping Butler in as a starting corner would probably help with that as he gains more experience, since Wilhite has shown pretty convincingly that he's not starter material to this point in his career.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I believe the only team I haven't seen play this season is the Rams, and I'm pretty sure that I don't need to see them to know about where they fall. The Patriots defense is below average right now, regardless of the scoring totals. That's just the way it is.

Hopefully that will improve over the remainder of the season. Keeping Butler in as a starting corner would probably help with that as he gains more experience, since Wilhite has shown pretty convincingly that he's not starter material to this point in his career.

They definitely need to improve. But you've seen this defense every minute it's performed, at its best and at its worst. You probably haven't seen the same from the other 31 teams. I'm just saying to label it below average without seeing other defenses to the same extent is a long assumption, when the #'s say otherwise.

 

[Deus Irae]

They definitely need to improve. But you've seen this defense every minute it's performed, at its best and at its worst. You probably haven't seen the same from the other 31 teams. I'm just saying to label it below average without seeing other defenses to the same extent is a long assumption, when the #'s say otherwise.

And I'm saying that you're wrong. I don't need to see every play or see every team as often. The notion that I do is absurd. Most teams are pretty easy to slot as great, above average, average, below average or horrible, with some flexibility in the creases.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

And I'm saying that you're wrong. I don't need to see every play or see every team as often. The notion that I do is absurd. Most teams are pretty easy to slot as great, above average, average, below average or horrible, with some flexibility in the creases.

So in one corner we have cold facts that have us ranked in the top 10 in PPG suggesting we are at worst an average solid defense. And in the other corner it's Deus Irae telling people they're wrong and insisting some highlight reels convince him he can name 15+ better defenses. Decisions, decisions who shall I believe.

 

[dhamz]

So let me see if I've got this - the defense isn't a problem. They are top 10, ranked 7th, exactly what we hoped they would be, etc.

The offense is the problem. What confuses me about that logic is that offense is 5th in points. And it is on pace for 437 points this year, the 3rd most in the history of the franchise. Clearly they aren't the problem then if the logic applied to the defense is applied to them, right?

Of course, the offense has been a problem this year. They have beat up on bad teams and not performed as well against the better teams - specifically relating to the second half of games against teams with a pulse. They have also failed to come through with the type of situational football that wins close games.

The offenses problems exist, they just don't somehow make the defensive issues this team has (and has had for a couple years now) cease to exist.

 

[mb6592]

So in one corner we have cold facts that have us ranked in the top 10 in PPG suggesting we are at worst an average solid defense. And in the other corner it's Deus Irae.

and the collective eyes of millions of Patriots' fans. Average solid defense? Isn't that an oxymoron? Solid D would be top 10. This is not a top 10 defense in any traditional sense.

 

[mb6592]

So let me see if I've got this - the defense isn't a problem. They are top 10, ranked 7th, exactly what we hoped they would be, etc.

The offense is the problem. What confuses me about that logic is that offense is 5th in points. And it is on pace for 437 points this year, the 3rd most in the history of the franchise. Clearly they aren't the problem then if the logic applied to the defense is applied to them, right?

Of course, the offense has been a problem this year. They have beat up on bad teams and not performed as well against the better teams - specifically relating to the second half of games against teams with a pulse. They have also failed to come through with the type of situational football that wins close games.

The offenses problems exist, they just don't somehow make the defensive issues this team has (and has had for a couple years now) cease to exist.

damn good post.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

and the collective eyes of millions of Patriots fans. Average solid defense? Isn't that an oxymoron? Solid D would be top 10. This is not a top 10 defense in any traditional sense.

Like I said, how many other defenses in the league have your eyes watched this season enough to override the facts? You've seen 10-15 that are consistently better than what we have and never falter?