Patriots draft plans exposed

[patchick]

Every one of those players you mention are artificial turf-type players.

and the Patriots play on...?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, how could I possibly argue with somebody who is so committed to indecision? As for Samuel, newsflash: He's gone!

Why the Eagles cap numbers intrigue Pat fans so much is beyond me.
Are you holding out hope of his return? I don't follow. It makes no sense.

But what I do get is that there is a small crowd of Pat fans who think that somehow the Pats had a choice of either paying their #1 rookie top dollar or giving that same money to a veteran: namely, Asante Samuel. That's wrong.

I think I've thoroughly disputed that argument in My Finalized Mock Draft. The Pats never had the option of paying what they might to their #1 pick to Samuel (dollar for dollar, or not)! I don't know how many times I have to repeat it.
The only question is, how do they move on from there and replace Samuel? My best bet is DRC.

I read your other thread in more detail.

I think you're under the mistaken impression that the Rookie Cap is extra money that teams have to spend.

I don't think that's the way it works. And if indeed you're wrong about that would pretty much undermine your contention that its more cost effective for teams to spend $10 million on a rookie than $10 million on a player like Samuel.

$10 million for a rookie is exactly the same in terms of overall cap space and real moey as $10 million for a veteran. The only difference is the rookie at worst could be a bust, or could easilly need a year or two to fully develop. No doubt there's some rookies who are excellent immediately - but there are many many more who need time to develop.

 

[cubedoggy]

You seem to misunderstand what free agency means. The Patriots were not prohibited from making an offer to Samuel.

They were not and are not prohibited from making an offer to any other free agent CB.

They might well not deem the CB position worthy of a salary and/or cap space of @ $7 million a year either - but if your assertion that the Patriots were prohibited from making Samuel an offer approaching that of what the Eagles offered then you're just wrong.

The notion that our top CB can only be replaced by a player - be it a rookie or a veteran - earning $7 million + a year on average is wrong as well.

I'm sure many people felt that we needed to spend a ton of money to replace Ty Law when he left too, but the 4th round draft pick who took his place did OK, and even wound up earning himself a decent salary as a free agent.

Right on, which is why Bryant and Webster were signed. Perhaps only one of them ends up on the final 53, but I still am unconvinced that a rookie CB is worth the $ in the vicinity of what Asante ended up getting.

If the braintrust thought a guy who understood the system wasn't worth the $, why spend it on someone who MIGHT get to understand the system?

I wasn't a true believer that Asante was as good as his numbers would make one think, but does anyone really believe, w/ some sort of credible evidence, that any of the potential 1st-round CBs are going to be better in the next two years?

Please don't paste in links to other threads, guys. Make your point here.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

But what I do get is that there is a small crowd of Pat fans who think that somehow the Pats had a choice of either paying their #1 rookie top dollar or giving that same money to a veteran: namely, Asante Samuel. That's wrong.

I think I've thoroughly disputed that argument in My Finalized Mock Draft.

In this case, they're talking about an entirely different sort of calculus: not whether or not you can take money out of the rookie pool to pay Samuel, but rather whether DRC (or, for that matter, Rivers or Ellis or McFadden or . . .) is worth the money they would theoretically earn over the length of that rookie contract.

That number is roughly equal to what it would have cost the Pats to keep Samuel, and you didn't answer that question.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Right on, which is why Bryant and Webster were signed. Perhaps only one of them ends up on the final 53, but I still am unconvinced that a rookie CB is worth the $ in the vicinity of what Asante ended up getting.

If the braintrust thought a guy who understood the system wasn't worth the $, why spend it on someone who MIGHT get to understand the system?

I wasn't a true believer that Asante was as good as his numbers would make one think, but does anyone really believe, w/ some sort of credible evidence, that any of the potential 1st-round CBs are going to be better in the next two years?

Please don't paste in links to other threads, guys. Make your point here.

I think the My2Cents is under the mistaken impression that rookie salaries don't count towards the overall salary cap - i.e. that rookie salaries represent "extra" money that we couldn't offer to someone like Asante - and therefore we're better off filling a CB position with a rookie than a veteran.

That's what he appears to be saying - but that's not my understanding of how it works.

I think he's confused about what the Rookie Salary Cap is all about but am hoping he'll clarify his statements.

 

[cubedoggy]

It would appear that My2Cents is, er, spent.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It would appear that My2Cents is, er, spent.

I think so too - he had quite a bit riding on his belief that the Patriots were prohibited from negotiating with Samuel, and then quite a bit riding on his belief that the rookie salary pool was "extra" money that doesn't count against the cap, making it more cost effective to pay a rookie than to pay a veteran (also overlooking the fact that after year 1 of the contract, they're no longer rookies)

That doesn't mean there's no way the Pats will take a CB at #7 - but nor is it the sure thing that My2Cents would like to assert.

 

[DaBruinz]

Don't tell the Jets :scared:, but I think I'm exposing the Pats draft.
The theme being upgrading speed, versatility and athleticism.

1. CB, DRC, TSU
It will take a team with a lot of balls to draft this guy early. But the Pats love of athleticism will help start an early run on CB's. Having trained with both Sanders and Darrell Green, he's NFL ready. And let us not forget bloodlines!

2. WR/KR Dexter Jackson, AS
There is a big void left by Donte' Stallworth. Granted, Chad Jackson could finally step up and contribute. But Jackson is known for his hands, not his speed. This Jackson, Dexter, is known for both big plays and speed.

3. OLB Marcus Howard, UGA
Compares favorably to USC's Keith Rivers in many respects. Highest rated speed at his position. After being stuck behind 2 NFL caliber DE's, Howard exploded on the scene, notching 10.5 sacks and dominating the SugarBowl.

4. MLB Stanford Keglar, Purdue
Despite serving mostly spot duty, Keglar caught the eyes of scouts at the Combine with excellent measurables. Has the build you look for in a 3-4 MLB.
Unfortunately, the Pats have to draft him early since he has many suitors.

5. FS Thomas Decoud, Cal
Decoud doesn't do any one thing great. But he does everything so very good. He doesn't get any media play but ask the people who play and practice against him and they insist he's the most feared hitter around.

6. CB Orlando Scandrick, BS
While Ryan Clady headlines at Boise State, Scandrick was a shutdown corner and ST standout. Could step right into the hole left by Gay at CB. Only a Junior, with room to get better. Good ball skills but teams mostly avoided him.

7. LT Chad Rinehart, N. Iowa
Scouts have fallen in love with his teammate, OG Brandon Keith, but Rinehart has the drive, determination and toughness that the Pats generally love in late round lineman. Will likely see some time at the Right Tackle position.

8. OG Jordan Grimes, Purdue
Doesn't look particularly strong. Didn't do very well in the benchpress. But engulfs defenders at the point of attack before they even react to the snap.
Very quick jump despite being slow. Will provide extra push up the middle.


And that's a wrap, folks. See you next year!

WOW. Talk about spewing dumbness and falloing in love with combine players.

1) DRC is not all that. This has been mentioned numerous times and you continue to ignore it. It doesn't change the fact that you seriously over-rate DRC.

2) Jackson isn't worth a 2nd round pick to the Patriots. For a variety of reasons. The biggest one is that they are already very deep at the WR position.

3) Howard - can you say combine warrior? He's Mike Mamula all over again. He's a straight pass rusher who has problems with the run. Also, he's not played OLB in the 3-4.

4) Stanford Keglar - About 2 rounds too high for him. Not to mention he's an OLB and not an ILB.

5) Decoud - If he did everything so very good, the way you claim, he'd be taken much higher than the 5th round.

6) Scandrick - Serious project.

7) Rinehart - Could be a good pick. More likely to spend time at guard than at tackle

8) Grimes - Isn't a good fit for the Pats Zone blocking scheme.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, how could I possibly argue with somebody who is so committed to indecision? As for Samuel, newsflash: He's gone!

Why the Eagles cap numbers intrigue Pat fans so much is beyond me.
Are you holding out hope of his return? I don't follow. It makes no sense.

But what I do get is that there is a small crowd of Pat fans who think that somehow the Pats had a choice of either paying their #1 rookie top dollar or giving that same money to a veteran: namely, Asante Samuel. That's wrong.

I think I've thoroughly disputed that argument in My Finalized Mock Draft. The Pats never had the option of paying what they might to their #1 pick to Samuel (dollar for dollar, or not)! I don't know how many times I have to repeat it.
The only question is, how do they move on from there and replace Samuel? My best bet is DRC.

How the hell do you figure that the Patriots "never had the option of paying what they might to their #1 pick to Samuel? Do you just make things up or are you that daft that you just talk out your rear end without understanding what you are really talking about?

The Patriots DID have the option of paying the same money to Samuel as they could to DRC in the scenario you are offering. The problem is that DRC is a player who did well against INFERIOR competition, but, by no means, was lights out.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

3) Howard - can you say combine warrior? He's Mike Mamula all over again. He's a straight pass rusher who has problems with the run. Also, he's not played OLB in the 3-4.

Actually he's another incarnation of Moses and Jackson. Moses was cut by Oakland and Jackson had no sacks for Atlanta last season.
Let the Jets take Howard.

 

[Kontradiction]

If the draft actually happened like this, I would start rooting for the Lions.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

who needs pass rush? we'll just outscore people