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Patriots Draft Picks: Looking at the bigger picture

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by tricktak, May 2, 2011.

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  1. tricktak

    tricktak Banned

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    -Nate Solder: I like I'm sure many other people was not crazy about this pick at first but have really come around on Solder. With Light a free agent, they need insurance and if they deem him ready maybe they'll make Solder the starting left tackle and let Light walk. Watching Light this year, he just can't seem to keep up with the speed rushers and Brady gets pressured a lot, especially in the Jets playoff game where Shaun Ellis abused Light the whole game, Solder is much quicker and will be way more effective against speed rushers plus Sebastian Vollmer is a pro bowl right tackle so if it aint broke don't fix it, which is why they drafted Solder.

    -Ras-I Dowling: Dowling has been injured a lot but I really liked this pick. I love big physical corners like Dowling. You have the ability to put him on bigger receivers and be physical with them. Braylon Edwards bowled through some of the Patriots smaller corners this year, that won't happen with Dowling. If he plays well in training camp, he could earn the nickel job or even the starting and something a lot of people aren't talking about is this would allow Kyle Arrington to go back to the special teams gunner which is really what he's made for for this Patriots team.

    -Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley: There's isn't much not to like about both these picks and they may very well be our Gronkowski and Hernandez this year. They double dipped and got two tight ends and last years draft and it turned out great maybe the same will happen with Vereen. Some people have compared Vereen to Ray Rice and I think that is a fair comparison because their games are similar and they have a similar look, both are fairly short backs but they have a lot of bulk to them. The Ridley pick will surprise people. I love bruisers and this guy was one of the better ones in this draft, he runs and breaks tackles very well and looks similar on tape to Marion Barber. I wouldn't be surprised, if it' Ridley who's the Gronkowski and Vereen is our Hernandez. Ridley will surprise people.
  2. meggett

    meggett Rookie

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    Ive had some time to sit around and stew about this draft. I was pretty pissed about the 2 RB picks back to back. I'm now pretty happy about it. To be honest, looking back at our years past and RBs that have had success in NE, I think Ridley is gonna be a better back for us than Vereen. I dont think hes just a short yardage/goaline guy. Analysts are saying that Vereen is a potential Faulk replacement, but stop me if im wrong, isnt that what Woodhead is?? Ridley is a bruiser and can play all 3 downs. looking back at what Smith, Dillon, Morris have all done, he looks like he is the most likely to make an immediate impact. Plus it makes you think, they took Vereen in the 2nd round, ok mayock said he had him as a late 2nd early 3rd. but they prob pulled the trigger on Ridley early because of the trade with the Raiders and they really didnt want to miss out on him. Leads me to believe they wanted Ridley really badly. Up until the draft we didnt have a back like Ridley. have a feeling hes gonna be the best player selected in this draft for us...
  3. tricktak

    tricktak Banned

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    that's what I said at first but Vereen is much more explosive than Woodhead and Faulk.
  4. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Explain what you mean by explosive.


    Because if it has anything to do with speed, its demonstratably untrue. Woodhead is drastically faster than Vereen.


    Danny Woodhead:

    5'7" 200lbs
    40: 4.33
    Vertical: 38.5
    60 yard shuttle: 11.2

    Shane Vereen
    5'10 210lbs
    40: 4.50
    Vertical 34.0
    60 yard shuttle: 11.6

    So what exactly does explosive mean? I've got a feeling "explosive" is kind of the opposive as "gritty".
  5. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    I have a feeling Pats fans will like the new look offense when the Pats run the ball at opponents defenses......a pounder to get that tough couple yards and blocker to help protect Brady should it be a passing play.....can't help but think 2 back sets will be seen more often.....also could vision 4 TE's on the field at once....plenty of options
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I'm not taking issue with your numbers or writing in support of tricktacks "explosive" point but I think combine numbers are fairly irrelevant when it comes to running backs. The two most important traits an RB can have, assuming his measurables are OK, is vision and reaction times; the ability to identify a threat and the quickess of thought to avoid that threat. What little I've seen of Vereen suggests he has those although I'd like to see a bigger sample.
  7. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Then the writer should say he has better vision than Woodhead. Or that he identifies a threat better. Because he absolutely is not more explosive, unless explosive is code for black. (Like "Deceptively fast" is code for white)
  8. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Or if you take a holistic view when defining "explosive" rather than the narrow measurables view. One can define an explosive player as one who is best able to transform a game in a moment, not just one who can jump a couple of inches higher than the other. I suppose if you want to bring race into it (not sure where that came from), at least your numbers prove "white men can jump".
  9. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    And how would one define or quantify that? How would one qualify it. There's no information contained in that statement.
  10. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Of course there is, it just can't be quantified as you say. It's the moment that lifts you out of your seat when you are watching a game, that makes you spill your beer or provokes an impromptu "woohoo". It's why we watch sport. We don't watch sport to say "ooh look, that guy jumps 2" higher than that other guy". It's why Mark Ingram was rated the best RB in the class despite his mediocre measurables and it's why Vereen is intriguing. Have a look at his youtube highlight film. There's a moment early on where, on a run, he does a 360 to avoid a defender. As he comes out of it, his foot placement is absolutely perfect enabling him to get back up to full speed almost immediately and extend the run. I think that's explosive, would have me out of my seat and leads to a game transforming 40yd TD run.

    You're not wrong, in the draftnik world, explosivity has a narrow definition. But we are sports fans too and I think tricktack made that point from that perspective.
  11. sg14

    sg14 Rookie

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    Someone else mentioned this somewhere but I am confused by the Solder pick when combined with the "new run offense". If we want to be more run dominate wouldn't you want to put Volmer on the left, then draft a run blocking ROT??

    Seatte is trying to create a "beastly" running game by picking up Carpenter and Moffitt.

    There will be several OT's to watch in the upcoming years to see who picked the best groceries.

  12. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Why do you think a 6'9 320lb OT who supposedly had 8% body fat, and could probably handle quite a bit more weight, won't be a good run blocker?
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that you will find that running behind the 673 pounds of Cannon and Vollmer will work out fine.

    BTW, please list all the RG-RT combos that are more beastly than Vollmer and Cannon.

  14. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Brady still needs to be protected. Von Miller said that Solder was the best LT he came across, he also only gave up 5 sacks in 1400 passing plays. I think we'll be just fine.
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats need to take care of Mankins asap, because having him pulling to the right side that already has those two on it is completely unfair.
  16. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    Amen Brother !

    Use Light's salary to help re-sign Mankins..Please..

    I have a feeling that the Pats newly retooled OL and running game will slow down any team's pass rush and make TB even more effective in the play action passing game..How much more can they score over last season's prolific offense is the question.. :)
  17. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Its not about IF he's going to start. You pass up obvious needs an pick a guy you have rated at the top of the OL board if you don't expect him to be your starter. He's not there to sit a year at Scarneccia U. The only way I see Light coming back is to start at the other G and be LT insurance - I hope that's the case, but I don't think its likely.

    S, CB, Nickel all these terms have less meaning on the Pats. Its all about the sub packages and the match ups. Clearly he gives us a bigger presence in the DBfield - BOTH he and Boddin will give up better match ups against the increasing wave of bigger WRs coming into the league. So whether he lines up in the middle or the field or on the outside. If you want to call him a S or CB, go ahead, but it will be the matchups each week that will determine where he will play, not his position designation.

    I also hope Butler will surprise many people here who might be selling him short after just 2 years. I think he'll be an improving contributor to the secondary. Especially now that it is less likely he'll be asked to match up on guys who are so much stronger than he is.
  18. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    No Light, No Mankins.
    LT Solder(cant sit a guy drafted this high)
    LG Connolly-started more games than any G last year
    C Koppen
    RG Kaczur-easier adjustment from RT
    RT Vollmer

    If Cannon can play it would most likely be LG, easiest adjustment from LT. Connolly could be our future C too.
  19. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    The eye in the sky don't lie. Woodie's a hell of a player but he sure as hell doesn't run a 4.33 on the field. He's also not nearly that explosive coming out of cuts. That's understandable considering his size and build. His frame simply can't hold the kind of muscle mass required to have that kind of plant and burst strength while still being athletic enough to play at the NFL level.

    Vereen on the other hand looks like he runs about a 4.4 on tape. He's the best slasher coming out of college and his cut burst is obscene. He's the best zone back I've seen in a while who also has the patience and power to succeed in the directional game.

    Pro-days and combines are nice but ultimately tape is all that matters.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  20. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    Yup. They should have the best power in the game. Combine that with the wham, crack, and jet cracks in the TE game and they'll have a devastating run game.
  21. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    As Patriot fans, we have to prepare to be without Mankins. I can only hope that the organization can trade him for a draft pick.
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This keeps on getting repeated. Why do you think that Mankins won't play for the patriots this year?

  23. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    Agree 100% that the effect of an enhanced ground game on the effectiveness of our own play-action could be an enormous boost to the offense. But, actually, I've been thinking in terms of how it may help us in terms of clock ownership by enabling a higher percentage of our scores to come from sustained, time-consuming drives, rather than only increasing the number of points we can put up.

    From an endgame perspective, it's fairly obvious to say that the number of points your lead needs to be in order to force the opposing offense to become one-dimensional is directly proportional to how much time you're leaving the opposing offense to work with. If your offense is taking 8:00 off the clock every time it touches the ball and you're scoring on nearly every one of those touches, AND your DL is capable of limiting the opposition ground game and your defense in general is designed to stifle big plays, even while yielding yardage (thus forcing the opponent to sustain a long drive in order to score), ultimately it reduces the effectiveness of THEIR play-action and puts them into one-dimensional desperation mode that much sooner (and, perhaps, increases pass-rush opportunities).

    This is all especially effective if your special teams can consistently force the opponent to start all their drives from their own 20 or deeper.
  24. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    What do you mean NO Mankins. When this lockout is over, Mankins will be the first guy to sign his tender, and the Pats will be happy to pay it. Remember that would mean they will have gotten the better part of 2 years from Mankins for less than $5.5MM/yr. In some places that would be considered a bargain. ;) Signing him long term IS still a question, but I don't think where he plays in 2011 is one.
  25. conway

    conway Rookie

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    Mankins

    I don't think we can assume the franchise tag will even exist. I'd be surprised if Mankins suits up for the Pats this year.

    If there's no tag we won't even be able to trade him.

    But last year demonstrated we can be alright without him.

    This team's getting younger and younger. You can almost put together a respectable starting lineup with only players drafted in the past 3 years. Not sure any team in the league will be as young as we will be.
  26. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    still laughing at people who think Vereen is more "explosive" than woodhead. The thing Vereen has over woodhead when it comes to the running game is vision and balance. Vereen is a stronger back and can walk through arm tackles with ease. If anybody wants to question woodheads speed or quickness watch his TD runs against the bills and colts.
  27. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    Pats have backs that can pound the ball...catch it and a couple of speedy elusive backs with YOUNG legs.....retooling their OL with Solder and maybe even Cannon at OG later should provide something Pats fans haven't seen in a while...a running game that will move the chains and eat up the clock when needed...

    Just MHO :singing:
  28. PatsCanDoIt

    PatsCanDoIt Rookie

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    TriplecHamp, yeah seriously. Woodhead is a freak. A little freak but still. If Woodhead got to play for Cal instead of, um, somewhere untelevised, he'd get more respect. Vereen is much better in the down field passing game. He's more of a natural receiver. So is Faulk.

    Synovia, what you said cracked me up. Explosive = black, gritty = white. So true. When I said to friends that JJ Watt is one the most explosive guys in the draft they bring how he's a good character, hard worker etc. Lots of dog whistle terms in sports.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  29. PatsCanDoIt

    PatsCanDoIt Rookie

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    What I find crazy is that a similar athlete to Marcus Cannon was drafted in the first round in 2010, Mike Iupati. It seems like Marcus is more skilled and he has more potential. Iupati made the all-rookie team. I'm kinda rambling but anyway. The 49ers drafted a tackle and RG in the first round to shore up their oline. Iupati and Anthony Davis. We drafted a Solder in the first and Cannon in the fifth so we did it more cheaply and our guys might just have a higher upside short term and long term.
  30. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    In terms of the RBs, this is all about scheme flexibility. The Pats did not have the biggest or fastest players last year, but they got by (to the tune of over 500 points scored.) The offense has a unique set of players that all have their own special skillset, and while they would not be that tough to defend with a vanilla playbook, they become really tough to defend when they are constantly rotating in new players that can beat you. I think the key this offense are the two tight ends they drafted last year, as those guy create nightmare matchups.

    So with all of this emphasis on shifting personnel, why not just add more players to the mix? They now have four running backs that have different running styles are going to be really tough to defend.

    I'm guessing you rarely see the same formation twice in the same game next season.
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