Patriots concerned about Aqib Talib's work ethic

[Mac&Barmore FTW]

This. Asomugha would be a swell acquisition if we're attempting to construct the WOAT secondary.

Well if he's playing man coverage he's fine. Philly screwed him up having him play zone.

 

[supafly]

Despite their concerns about Talib's work ethic, the coaches gave him a pretty prominent role in their game plans for the 2 playoff games- man-to-man against Andre Johnson and Anquan Boldin.

I'm thinking this is a strategic leak hoping to give pause to any team out there thinking about making him a multi-year offer with substantial guarantees. My guess is the Patriots want him back on reasonable terms or else they wouldn't have let this information out.

Talib has some skills, no doubt about that.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that he was clearly our best option at covering those types of top talent WRs, as it allowed Arrington to play the slot and McCourty to stay at FS. In other words, it's not like we had anyone else to give him a run at that assignment.

I think the team will be very interested in Talib staying, but it will have to be for a 1-2 yr deal of something less than he would be expecting. I think he moves on to another team who offers something better, but I also think it ends up taking about a week or so into FA to happen.

 

[supafly]

This is my guy for CB competition and depth on a relatively affordable 1-2 yr deal.

Keep in mind that I am not advocating him to be the young, up and comer that we want and need alongside Dennard, only that I like him for one of those "middle/lower tier" players who I think are critical for cap success.

This is from an article around Thanksgiving, so Brown's DPR went up a bit over the last 6 games of the season. As of Thanksgiving he had a 59.9 DPR vs opposing QB's. He also can play some decent man to man, which is obviously what we need here.

I'm hoping that he's brought in for a somewhat cheaper (in CB terms) 1-2 yr deal, and I do think he could add something to this CB corp.

Again, this article is from Thanksgiving time, so his numbers did not end up that low, but I thought this said something about his play.



59.9: Passer rating allowed by cornerback Sheldon Brown.

The Browns’ top cornerback is Joe Haden, but their top defensive player at the moment may very well be 33-year-old cornerback Sheldon Brown. Brown has been targeted 43 times in 2012, allowing just a 53.5 completion percentage and only 5.51 YPA. He hasn’t given up a touchdown all season. Brown’s superb play could be the result of being demoted out of the starting lineup in September, although he obviously reclaimed his starting job once Haden was suspended. Haden has allowed 8.55 YPA and three touchdowns. It isn’t like the Cowboys should specifically look to target Haden, but they need to be aware that Brown is really playing good football.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I like Derek Cox a ton as an alternative to Talib. On the field, I'd rather have Cox actually. The problem is that he's missed a lot of games in his career due to injury.

He and Glass IR Dowling at opposite corners!
Given that injury experience my friend Mr Wu thinks Pats would be suckers for Cox.

 

[Kontradiction]

He and Glass IR Dowling at opposite corners!
Given that injury experience my friend Mr Wu thinks Pats would be suckers for Cox.

I see what you did there.

 

[grux]

Talib showed how good our defense can be with a legit corner. BB and co. know better than to break the bank for a talented player with a long list of problems. From reading previous posts it looks like there are some good CB available through FA. Lets hope BB find one he likes.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

As if there needed to be another reason to stay away from him for a long-term, big money deal. To recap:

1. He isn't an elite cornerback. He's above average with some flaws that were exposed in Tampa Bay, but it looks like he's a good fit for the NE scheme and coaching. One of the reasons he didn't get burned often is because he wasn't on the field much here. While he is talented, this isn't a situation where you can't replace his talent. This isn't Darrelle Revis or even a pro bowl caliber player.

2. Off-field issues. Big whoop, in a contract year, he didn't make any headlines for punching someone or shooting someone for a whole two months. Does this really mean these chronic problems aren't likely to resurface?

3. Injury-prone. He has now finished three seasons watching the game from the sidelines. It seemed almost Glass-I/Wheatley/Chung-like when he was on the field. Every time he dove or made a play, you could count on a hip injury, hamstring injury, ankle injury, etc. At best, you could hope that he limped off the field and was only out for the rest of the game.

Now add to this his lack of work ethic and explain to me why it is worth giving this guy anything north of 2 years, 10M, and even that's a stretch. I understand our secondary is garbage and there seems to be no answers out there, but making a desperate move is exactly how teams become bad. They shell out a bunch of money on a huge reach because of the immediate need, when in fact next season the problems with the personnel may be very different, but now you have an overpaid player bogging down your salary cap with less room to go after real Patriots players.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Have not read the thread so apologies if already covered.

But is anyone else surprised to see this kind of leak coming out of Foxboro?

 

[supafly]

As if there needed to be another reason to stay away from him for a long-term, big money deal. To recap:

1. He isn't an elite cornerback. He's above average with some flaws that were exposed in Tampa Bay, but it looks like he's a good fit for the NE scheme and coaching. One of the reasons he didn't get burned often is because he wasn't on the field much here. While he is talented, this isn't a situation where you can't replace his talent. This isn't Darrelle Revis or even a pro bowl caliber player.

2. Off-field issues. Big whoop, in a contract year, he didn't make any headlines for punching someone or shooting someone for a whole two months. Does this really mean these chronic problems aren't likely to resurface?

3. Injury-prone. He has now finished three seasons watching the game from the sidelines. It seemed almost Glass-I/Wheatley/Chung-like when he was on the field. Every time he dove or made a play, you could count on a hip injury, hamstring injury, ankle injury, etc. At best, you could hope that he limped off the field and was only out for the rest of the game.

Now add to this his lack of work ethic and explain to me why it is worth giving this guy anything north of 2 years, 10M, and even that's a stretch. I understand our secondary is garbage and there seems to be no answers out there, but making a desperate move is exactly how teams become bad. They shell out a bunch of money on a huge reach because of the immediate need, when in fact next season the problems with the personnel may be very different, but now you have an overpaid player bogging down your salary cap with less room to go after real Patriots players.

I agree with what you say here. I was downright shocked to see some projecting his worth on the open market at "5 years/50 million dollars," and it has become something of folklore around the NFL that Talib is one of the top rated CBs and single handedly changed the whole play of the NEP defense.

Seeing him with that big puffy jacket standing on the sidelines in the AFCCG made me more than annoyed. In his team's biggest game and his personal one and only chance at anything significant in a playoff game, he couldn't even come back to contribute at all.

I question a lot of things about this guy, but I'd still rather see him stay on a reasonable deal. I just don't think there is anyway that it happens. Like you said, it's not like he can't be replaced. They need to find someone who can play some halfway effective type of man coverage and they'll be fine.

 

[Bhelmet]

Talib is not worth overpaying for.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Given his talents he is probably worht the 5/50 contract that a lot of CBs have right now, but there is a lot of risk involved. He hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, hes had some attitude problems in the past although he was a perfect Patriot in his short time here so I can't weigh that heavily on him, and hes 1 failed drug test away from being suspended for an entire season.

Any contract he gets is going to have all sorts of escalators, performance incentives and opt-out clauses in case he fails another test. He did help our secondary, there is no debating that. He can match up 1 on 1 against just about any WR, which is something that we need badly. He kept Boldin in check during the AFFCG, right after he went down with an injury, Boldin took over the game because we didn't have anyone that could match him physically.


Tough, tough call.. Hes going to cost some money because that is where the CB market is at, but they will have to protect themselves in a lot of the wording in that contract or they might pay for it hard down the line. I'd basically have escalators and playing time incentives in the contract that would pay him like a top 10 CB in the league if he met all of the playing time requirements.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Given his talents he is probably worht the 5/50 contract that a lot of CBs have right now, but there is a lot of risk involved. He hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, hes had some attitude problems in the past although he was a perfect Patriot in his short time here so I can't weigh that heavily on him, and hes 1 failed drug test away from being suspended for an entire season.

Any contract he gets is going to have all sorts of escalators, performance incentives and opt-out clauses in case he fails another test. He did help our secondary, there is no debating that. He can match up 1 on 1 against just about any WR, which is something that we need badly. He kept Boldin in check during the AFFCG, right after he went down with an injury, Boldin took over the game because we didn't have anyone that could match him physically.


Tough, tough call.. Hes going to cost some money because that is where the CB market is at, but they will have to protect themselves in a lot of the wording in that contract or they might pay for it hard down the line. I'd basically have escalators and playing time incentives in the contract that would pay him like a top 10 CB in the league if he met all of the playing time requirements.

I'm thinking if he wants 5 and 50 he can put it in a whole season of work without boo hooing a hammy. Right now I'd feel a risk for this team giving 4 yrs 32 million. If talib wants the big pay day, give the Pats a 1 yr I'll bring my A game type season. Highly unlikely, I know. If not let him walk. He hasn't earned it yet.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

no way you give him anywhere close to 5 for 50


1 year deal with this news..otherwise...later and hope we get a CB....hope...

 

[Hardboiled]

Have not read the thread so apologies if already covered.

But is anyone else surprised to see this kind of leak coming out of Foxboro?

Could be a player. Writers will use misdirection referring their sources. Talib's addition did help the defense. But I didn't feel great about the guy watching him in short tv interviews. And just based upon how he couldn't keep on the field, I can't see a big commitment to keep him.

 

[tonyto3690]

If this is true then I don't want to give him more than a year and don't blame the Patriots if they let him walk.

The last thing I want is another Adalius Thomas.

 

[fgssand]

Talib has some skills, no doubt about that.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that he was clearly our best option at covering those types of top talent WRs, as it allowed Arrington to play the slot and McCourty to stay at FS. In other words, it's not like we had anyone else to give him a run at that assignment.

I think the team will be very interested in Talib staying, but it will have to be for a 1-2 yr deal of something less than he would be expecting. I think he moves on to another team who offers something better, but I also think it ends up taking about a week or so into FA to happen.

A 2 year deal at fair market value seems to me to be a good deal for both parties. Talib gets to play his way towards another contract, he will be 29 in 2 years. If he "brings it" over the course of this 2 year deal - he will set himself up for a nice payday and a 3 year deal after this one. Meanwhile, NE gets a player that looked pretty damn good to me when he was playing.

Best way to keep the market "fair" is to leak some stories that question his work ethic.

Judge what you saw with your own eyes when the guy was on the field.

BB & Co. know exactly what they are getting at this point and if they do ink this guy I know I will be VERY excited.

 

[Froob]

With our db coaches, that might be a good thing . Franchise Talib and send him and Dennard far far away from foxboro until September.

 

[Patriot Missile]

A 2 year deal at fair market value seems to me to be a good deal for both parties. Talib gets to play his way towards another contract, he will be 29 in 2 years. If he "brings it" over the course of this 2 year deal - he will set himself up for a nice payday and a 3 year deal after this one. Meanwhile, NE gets a player that looked pretty damn good to me when he was playing.

Best way to keep the market "fair" is to leak some stories that question his work ethic.

Judge what you saw with your own eyes when the guy was on the field.

BB & Co. know exactly what they are getting at this point and if they do ink this guy I know I will be VERY excited.

I watched him limp off the field with my "own eyes." Didn"t see him on the field enough with my own eyes to justify a long term deal.

Although to your point he did seem to play well against Boldin for the 2 or 3 series he was in. Buts let's not go overboard here. He shut down Johnson in the playoff game. Dennard handled Johnson in the first game for a majority of the duty. His availability from the day he got back from suspension wasn't very large. I like him but do want the pats to do all their homework before making a rash decision on this guy.

 

[Froob]

A 2 year deal at fair market value seems to me to be a good deal for both parties. Talib gets to play his way towards another contract, he will be 29 in 2 years. If he "brings it" over the course of this 2 year deal - he will set himself up for a nice payday and a 3 year deal after this one. Meanwhile, NE gets a player that looked pretty damn good to me when he was playing.

Best way to keep the market "fair" is to leak some stories that question his work ethic.

Judge what you saw with your own eyes when the guy was on the field.

BB & Co. know exactly what they are getting at this point and if they do ink this guy I know I will be VERY excited.

Not really, Talib can probably get a 5 year 50ish mill contract. With his injury history, probably in his best interest to do so along with some nice guaranteed money.

 

[skinnydog]

I really don't see any team throwing big, big money at Talib. He's 1 drug test away from a years suspension. On top of that his offseason activities leave a lot to be desired. And in his short tome here he had trouble staying healthy. And that's all without knowing if he work ethic reports are true. Finally, he's good, very good, but I didn't see him as a truly dominant shut down corner.