Welcome to PatsFans.com

Patriots/Chargers observations

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, Oct 13, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    I just thought I'd toss out a few of my observations based upon last night's game. It's a long list, so I'll keep the opening short.

    1.) Jamal Williams owned Koppen and destroyed the O-line

    2.) Mr. Neal, we need you back at right guard, and hurry

    3.) Sammy Morris: 10 carries for 26 yards. Maroney's not the problem

    4.) Randy Moss has to make those plays.

    5.) Dave Thomas, spend your hours learning how to block.

    6.) Matt Cassel, 2 quick reads only. After that, it's time to run.

    7.) Josh McDaniels, WTF was that play calling during the "and goal" series?

    8.) D-Line.... 0 knockdowns?

    9.) BB, it's well past time to call Seau and Law. Seau especially...

    10.) I still think they should have taken the O-lineman rather than Mayo.

    11.) Deltha O'Neal? The Rookie Wheatley? Time to call Fernando Bryant back in for another look.

    12.) Rodney looks as if he's lost a full step during the offseason.

    13.) Bruschi looks as if he's lost a full step during the offseason

    14.) It's tough to see the whole field on TV, so this may already be happening, but this team needs to use Gaffney as the #1 option on occasion.

    15.) Why the hell is this team still so pass oriented without Brady?

    16.) The team that used to win on heart and a refusal to back down from anyone seems to have gotten all too comfortable backing down from opponents this season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  2. Wendel

    Wendel On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    The one where he was wide open in the endzone and Cassel threw it out of the back left of the endzone?

    The one where he had his man clearly beat, but then had to go from running, to completely stopping (Second week in a row), thus allowing his man to make the deflection due to a horribly underthrew ball from Cassel?

    Or the one where the guy covering him pulled on his arm, thus making a catch impossible?

    Good to see you didn't think Cassel was worthy of comment.

    Yeah it's strange when a offense that includes Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Jabar Gaffney is pass oriented.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,627
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +514 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    Moss is looking alright but uninspired for sure; can't say I blame him.

    It was Tom Brady playcalling - IOW, playcalling you can do with Brady at QB. We have Matt freaking Cassel, 1st and goal from the 1 I'm running 4 times and I said that BEFORE 1st down was run.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  4. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +6 / 5 / -1

    Good points - can't think of too many I'd argue with.

    To me the biggest problems are on defense, and a lot of it is about scheme more than personnel. BB has never been about pressuring the QB, but more about bend don't break. I think in today's NFL your game plan needs to be a lot more about disruption. With zero touches on the QB last night, it shows that it wasn't in the plan to pressure Rivers. Either that or our front 7 is vastly overrated.

    On offense, we are moving the ball about as well as I could have hoped. The execution in opponent's territory on big plays has not been there yet. For us to compete with the Chargers and Colts, we need to put up 30, and that boils down to a few plays per game. We score TD's on the underthrow to Moss and the 1st and goal fiasco, that's 14 points and a whole different game.
     
  5. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I think your answer to #15 may be found in #3.
     
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    I agree, but I'd much rather the team focus on trying to get a running game than focus on trying to get a passing game, because it SHOULD be easier for this line to run block for Maroney/Morris/Jordan than to pass block for a 5 game 'rookie'. If it means that they need to scrap the zone blocking, so be it.
     
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I think it was the answer to #7 as well. And lets face it, had we run 4 times and failed the server would have overloaded with WTF use is Cassel threads...

    #11 and #12 didn't seem to be a problem until week #5 (except in week #3 but that was the wildcat phenomenon everyone has had fits dealing with).

    I think a lot of the trouble on defense last night was scheme oriented as we played to stop the things SD abandoned this week because they weren't working in the first 5 weeks.
     
  8. dtbrks

    dtbrks 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Did rivers even get touched during the game? i don't think he did.
    That's bad
     
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    Play action with the way Williams was killing Koppen was just a stupid, stupid call right there. I'm normally a fairly stout defender of McDaniels, but that was just a terribly called series. Morris wasn't able to get it done in that game, so there was no 'fear' factor.
     
  10. ALP

    ALP Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,499
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +48 / 2 / -0

    10 for 26???

    and does that count the couple of good runs at the end when we got the TD?

    if so, man ohh man did our running game die

    we just didnt want to win this game as badly as SD, and that spells defeat in the game of football
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,937
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +357 / 26 / -4

    A) This game was about the production from our lines. We lost this game in the trenches.

    This was the worst day of Koppen's career. Yates and Levoir were not the problem, other than if that they were replaced by all-pro's we could consider changing our team to a running team. The fact is that this is a passing team with an average passer.

    Our defense line made Rivers look like an all-pro. Sure the DB's allowed the big play, but the fault ultimately was lack of pressure on Rivers.

    B) The 1st and goal from the 1 series was one of the worst series in years. It's been FIVE years since we failed on a first and goal situation. Belichick and McDaniels SHOULD be yelling at each other (in private)!

    C) San Diego did indeed play very well (and were coached well). Belichick generally did what he wanted on defense: contain LT and Gates, and force Rivers to win with his arm. Rivers and their OL came through.

    D) Personally, I think we would be much better off with another QB, LB and CB on the squad as some of us have discussed for months. Garcia, Seau and Law come to mind. It is probably too late for a QB. HOWEVER, I would note that none of these players play on the DL and OL, the problems in this game. I do expect that another QB would have been better able to see open receivers.

    E) We still don't know much about whether we are a playoff team. That depends on the jets, buffalo and miami. Our fate is certainly in our own hands. We do know that we are not among the elite in the AFC. There have been issues with everyone, but as of now, we simply aren't as good as the SD, INDY, PITT and TENN. We will find out how we measure up to DENVER next weeked (we're favored by 4, which is essentially a pickem on a neutral field). As of now, these five seem to be the playoff teams along with the winner of the EAST.

     
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    NFL Game Center: Box Score - New England Patriots at San Diego Chargers - 2008 6

    For all the "Morris is better than Maroney" nonsense, I think last night showed that the problem is with the line as opposed to the RB. Whether it's Neal, the zone blocking, or something else, there's just something that's been missing from this running game all season, and it's never seemed very clean to me since they made the transition to the zone blocking scheme.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  13. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    #32 Jersey

    Never more obvious than on that goalline run. Our O-Line appears to be overmatched physically by most defenses this year, causing a ripple effect - no run game, no time for Cassel to throw the ball deep, etc. It was quite interesting to watch Rivers in a comfortable pocket all night vs Cassel who looked like he was throwing from a sea of Charger defenders each time he dropped back.

    As others have mentioned, neither of them were easy plays - Cassel badly underthrew the first one, and he was blanketed by Cromartie on the second, still caught the ball, but Cromartie was just able to knock it out of Moss's hand as he went out of bounds.

    The one where Moss had beaten the secondary later in the game was a miscue on someone's part - Cassel threw to the corner while Moss was running straight up past the DBs. Not sure who to blame that one on.

    He does seem to lose focus downfield when the pressure gets close. We're spoiled by Brady's almost magical pocket 'feel' where he slides away from pressure without ever looking at it.

    We're also guilty of double standards here - when Cassel runs out of the pocket early we complain; when he takes a sack he's holding the ball too long :) That being said, I agree he's no TB when it comes to making quick reads and getting the ball out.

    What would you have him do? He ran the Vrabel play on first down that has produced TDs many times in the past for the Pats, but nobody was open. He tried one run, but lost yardage - did you really have any confidence that even with 4 running attemps that they could have stuck it in? Reread #1.

    Cassel apparently had a wide open Watson on another play, but missed him when he panicked in the pocket after a quick read or 2. Hard to blame playcalling for the problems here.
     
  14. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    5,763
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0


    I think a Morris/Jordan/Faulk combo might do this. Also me feeling is that we need to get O'Connell more involved in the offense through short yardage and goal line plays. He is more of a natural running QB than Cassel. Cassel looks like he is going to trip over his own feet when he decides to run.
     
  15. vandergraafgenerator

    vandergraafgenerator Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    What's missing is the same as at the end of last season, a RB who can haul yards with a few defenders hanging on to his jersey.Our red zone statistics this season will show that.I thought Jordan looked better than Maroney but seems he's already injured.
     
  16. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    We were not good at third down conversation. Our O really sucks. Cassel still sucks.

    O'Neal was alright last night but he was 3 seconds late. Merri was good. Moss couldn't hold on to the ball.

    I turned off my TV on third Q.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    I don't want to dwell too much on these, but this is Randy Moss we're talking about here. Chad Jackson might not be expected to make those plays, but Randy Moss is.



    Play action when the running game wasn't working all game, and Williams had been killing Koppen all game, was just a stupid idea. As for the one where Watson was open, Cassel's first read was to the right. Watson broke open, but Williams was killing Koppen again, and Cassel handled it badly. However, this team should have been able to gain a yard running off left tackle/left guard, even with these 'blocking' tight ends. Instead, McDaniels decided to get cute, and it backfired.
     
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,417
    Likes Received:
    546
    Ratings:
    +1,766 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    Mods, this thread got double posted during the late forum troubles, and they should probably be merged.
     
  19. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    11,083
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +93 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Good observations. This team has alot of work to do, but IMO it's doable.

    Agree bigtime on Law/Seau. Been saying all along I wanted Seau in for depth and experience. He made a gamebreaking play in the AFCC last year when Chargers had 3rd and short inside our 5, I honestly don't see anybody in out front 7 thus far making that kind of play when we really need it. And after thinking we were fine with what we had at CB, my mind is completely changed. First elite passing team we faced and they torched us (Favre is not there yet in NY). Without Brady here to bail us out, this defense NEEDS those 2.

    Can't agree with the Moss point though. If you're talking about the play near the goal line right before the FG, that was just a tremendous play by the DB, probably more luck than anything though to make a decision/play like that. But nonetheless hard to expect Randy to make that play. And not sure what the other play was but I counted 2 plays where he was behind the D for a TD and Cassel missed him or underthrew it.
     
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I think the problem with our running game remains absent a healthy borderline power back HOF'er like Dillon in a prove it year (once only, unfortunately) we can't. The OL was slowly re-tooled after 2001 to use their brains and speed while relying on technique in a scheme. The scheme is very unforgiving of mistakes and has been overpowered and they can't match up against bigger DL's. The last few seasons it was wham blocks that routinely take out TE body parts as well as keep them out of patterns that occasionally make it work as a power running line. Remember, we cost Seymour some of his best years because we needed to use him on goalines...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>