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Patriots can't draft out of the first round


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I dont see how the op is all that crazy. Recently their drafts have been mediocre at best. 2003 was great, 2005 was decent but since its been lackluster. Its the truth just go by production. Luckily the team still had talent to overcome it. But if you saw the picks and production and it was another team, you wouldnt say they were scouting geniuses. When you watch the draft the pats always make these picks early where these guys were projected late, people say they know something, but then thes guys turn out to be unproductive. And i agree no sense in drafting garret mills and david thomas back to back then never puting them on the field.

Well, it's still way too early to evaluate 2008, so the poster is basically saying that the Patriots suck at drafting because for two years they haven't been able to draft in the 2nd to 7th rounds.

But in 2007 we didn't have a second or third rounder, and our 2006 second and third rounders had their careers completely derailed by injuries despite not having a known injury history. So really, he's just *****ing because some second day picks weren't able to get spots on some of the most talented rosters in modern NFL history.

So grand total, we're talking about two first-day picks that failed to live up to expectations due to injuries, and a handful of second-day guys who couldn't crack some absurdly stacked rosters, and who were longshots in the first place simply by being second-day picks. And now that some of the older talent is being shuffled off of the roster, our second day picks are magically making the team again. Either those two points are closely intertwined or Belichick just suddenly forgot how to draft in 2006, only to remember again in 2008.

What's happened since 2006 can be easily explained by anyone with an ounce of common sense, yet this guy is acting like Corky is running the Pats' draft board. Therefore, he's an idiot.
 
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Pro Bowlers after the first round:

Brady
Light
Koppen
Samuel
Gost (I think)

Receivers after the first round who made it into the NFL record books:

Branch
Givens

Other starters after the first round, including UDFAs:

Wilson
Hobbs
Sanders
Gay
Guyton or Woods (perhaps both)
Kaczur
GRR
Kenyatta Jones
O'Callaghan (arguably)
Neal

Other major contributors after the first round:

Green
Cassel
Faulk, although he's before the BB regime

Surely I missed some

Now why would you try to diffuse such potent arguments with facts?
 
I dont see how the op is all that crazy. Recently their drafts have been mediocre at best. 2003 was great, 2005 was decent but since its been lackluster. Its the truth just go by production. Luckily the team still had talent to overcome it. But if you saw the picks and production and it was another team, you wouldnt say they were scouting geniuses. When you watch the draft the pats always make these picks early where these guys were projected late, people say they know something, but then thes guys turn out to be unproductive. And i agree no sense in drafting garret mills and david thomas back to back then never puting them on the field.

How many friggin times to we have to go over this? Every time this idiot brings it up (this has got to be the 5th or 6th time in the last 6 month) People show how he is WRONG.

How the hell can you say that the drafts since 2005 have been lackluster? The jury isn't even out on the 2008 or 2009 drafts. So, lets look at 2006 and 2007. And 2006 is was pretty good. 2007, the draft as a whole, was poor in overall talent.

2006
Maroney - Starting quality RB. Has had some injury issues, but has run well when healthy
Jackson - Developed slowly as a rookie, but started finding his legs just prior to the play-offs where he tore his ACL on kick coverage. Missed a full season and then was cut when he couldn't develop chemistry with Brady. Bust.
Thomas - Was one of the best pass-catching receivers coming out of college. Has been a decent back-up..
Mills - The Pats felt that they had an H-back in the Chris Cooley mode with Mills and they tried to stash him on the Practice Squad so he could continue to develop. Unfortunately, the Vikings decided to snag him off waivers. He's been a solid back-up for them.
Gostkowski - Has made people forget about the previous kicker. Is damn near an All-Pro
O'Callaghan - jumped over Britt in TC to earn the starting position with Kaczur injured. Unfortunately, missed much of the next 2 years with injuries.
Mincey - For some reason, he dogged it in camp thinking that his status as a draft pick meant he would have a full year to learn the defense. Since then, he's been a reserve for Jacksonville
Stevenson - One of the many C/G's the Pats have brought in to try and find a quality back-up for Koppen. He was cut, then was added to the practice squad, but was cut again.
LeKevin Smith - Developed into a solid back-up at DE. Was active on the special teams units.
Willie Andrews - Was a special teams ACE for three years until off-field issues de-railed his career.

So, of the 10 picks, 3 could be considered busts, though I am not sure how much of a bust a 6th round pick can be considered.. Picks outside the 3rd round are generally hit or miss.

Besides that, we've got 2 quality starters and several solid back-ups. You can't ask for much more out of a draft.

As for the 2007 draft. Belichick and Pioli are on record as having said they did not like the talent in this draft. They were also stuck with 4 pciks they couldn't trade.

They grabbed Meriweather. They grabbed Kareem Brown, who stuck with the team through TC and was only cut because of injuries at the DB position required a roster space to be open up.

BB tried to get cute with Justin Rogers and it back-fired on him.. Rogers has been one of the Cowboys best special teams players since getting there.

Oldenburg and Hilliard keep getting invited to TCs for teams and usually end up on the practice squad.. Richardson was playing well until his injury and he gave the Pats one good season.

People want to say that 2007 could have been better and I always ask how they know.. And most of the time they blabber on about other teams. Yet they forget that the 2007 Pats were STACKED going into the Draft. And then they added MOSS. It was going to take a very special talent to make the team..

Also, people love pointing to other players and I always ask how they know that such player "X" would succeed on the Pats.. And they can't give an answer. Because they don't know.

BTW, the 2008 and 2009 drafts are looking pretty solid, at the very least. Right now, 12 of 19 are on the Pats 53 man roster. Of the 7 that are not, 3 are on the IR and 1 on the PUP. The other three, (O'Connell, Ruud, and Richard) were cut. And that is a 3rd and two 7ths. And there is a good chance that Richard will be brought back to the practice squad.

Of the 12 on the roster, Mayo was a starter as a rookie. Wilhite showed promise and poise as a rookie and seems like he's earned himself a shot as the starter. Wheatley was going well until he broke his left wrist (not the wrist he's broken in college). Slater, though he muffed a couple of returns, was a great special teamer otherwise. And the rookies this year seem like they are a cash crop. Chung looks like he should develop into a quality starter. Same with Butler. Vollmer is causing us to drool with thoughts of him taking over from Kaczur and possibly displacing Light as the starting LT in a year or two. Brace looks to be the back-up NT the Pats have been looking for. Edelman surprised everyone and forced the Patriots to make a spot on the team. As did Pryor. Ohrnberger could be the answer at RG when Neal is gone.

Now, those are just the pre-lims on the 08 and 09 draft. The future certainly looks bright.
 
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Draft picks don't make this team because this team is already so good they rookies can't made the team. That is why i wanted to see the team trade 6 or 7 of it's picks to move UP in the draft. Patriots have the luxury of looking for the next Brady because if they miss, they're still the best team in the NFL. What does it tell you when another team keeps 5-6 rookies? It tells you the veterans suck!
 
Draft picks don't make this team because this team is already so good they rookies can't made the team. That is why i wanted to see the team trade 6 or 7 of it's picks to move UP in the draft. Patriots have the luxury of looking for the next Brady because if they miss, they're still the best team in the NFL. What does it tell you when another team keeps 5-6 rookies? It tells you the veterans suck!


It would have to be a VERY special talent that they need for that to happen, as the contract demands go UP exponentially, to the point that they are getting paid OUTRAGEOUS sums of $ before they even take the field against REAL ballplayers.....
The Pats don't play that game, their backups are reasonably paid, which I think helps out retaining decent quality....
But wth do I know........
 
Time to face the facts, since 2006, the Pats can't draft after the first round . No wonder they trade their drafts picks so much for veteran players. In the end, the only reason why the Pats poor drafting has gone unnoticed to fans and the media is because their already the best team in the NFL. Seriously, it's absolutely frustrating to see such a good team waste pick after pick.

................

Now go ahead and rip me.


I think if Belichick would give them
tighter numbers they would have a better chance of making the team.
 
Obvious rant designed to elicit a response... but with a grain of truth. The Pats have not drafted as well as they did in the past but part of the reason is that the team is very deep, hard for rookies to make the team, the other reason is bad picks.

With the clearing of all the dead wood I wonder if BB & SP had too many 'Yes Men'. A new set of eyes and an outside perspective may have helped shed some light on the deficiencies , kudos for the Pats for cutting their loses instead on making a bad situation worse.
 
Gostkowski- Has made people forget about the previous kicker. Is damn near an All-Pro

I believe by definition, he, um, is an All-Pro. ;)

Willie Andrews - Was a special teams ACE for three years until off-field issues de-railed his career.

Two seasons, not three. His offseason troubles began shortly after That Game, which may be why the Pats drafted Slater.
 
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We are viewed by the consensus as the best team in the NFL.
Since beginning with that 2006 draft, we have turned over most of our roster.
Since the draft was the only asset we had to work with, I guess we did pretty well.

best team doesn't mean best draft team....

I agree in part with the thread starter.
 
I;m sure there are two great arguments that can be made on this topic but the fact is, if you disrespect the OP like so many people have, then you are not really that reasonable. Not saying you have to agree with him, but you need to acknowledge the other side - in this case that the recent drafts have had problems.

For me, I think the underpinning fact is that you build great teams in this league by drafting offensive and defensive lineman. As for the skill players, let the busts weed out and pick them up in FA and trades, hopefully before their full potential costs you in trade or contract value.

Look at this team's line on both sides of the ball. ALL DRAFTED.
 
Pro Bowlers after the first round:

Brady
Light
Koppen
Samuel
Gost (I think)

Receivers after the first round who made it into the NFL record books:

Branch
Givens

Other starters after the first round, including UDFAs:

Wilson
Hobbs
Sanders
Gay
Guyton or Woods (perhaps both)
Kaczur
GRR
Kenyatta Jones
O'Callaghan (arguably)
Neal

Other major contributors after the first round:

Green
Cassel
Faulk, although he's before the BB regime

Surely I missed some

I could make a list to.

I don't think you would like it.
 
I;m sure there are two great arguments that can be made on this topic but the fact is, if you disrespect the OP like so many people have, then you are not really that reasonable. Not saying you have to agree with him, but you need to acknowledge the other side - in this case that the recent drafts have had problems.

For me, I think the underpinning fact is that you build great teams in this league by drafting offensive and defensive lineman. As for the skill players, let the busts weed out and pick them up in FA and trades, hopefully before their full potential costs you in trade or contract value.

Look at this team's line on both sides of the ball. ALL DRAFTED.

Either that, or the OP really is a nutter. I tend to go with the latter explanation.

The more he posts, the more it seems like he is simply daring the mods to ban him.
 
2009 is yet to be determined. However, another 3rd round pick (McKenzie) is out for season.

From 2006, the Pats best player after the first round has been a f****** kicker.

Now go ahead and rip me.

There's so much in here to rip, I'm not sure where to start. I'm sure other people who aren't as lazy as I am have already gotten to you, but I'm just going to focus on a couple things.

Why are you blaming Bill Belichick for Tyrone McKenzie getting injured?

Why are you pooh-poohing the PRO BOWL KICKER we got in 2006?

Why are you posting THIS stuff on a day when 9 rookies and an UDFA made the 53?

The draft is hit and miss. It's been frustrating that certain drafts were crappy - not just by BB, but the draft class in general, BTW - but the last two have been pretty darn great, as far as we know so far.
 
I;m sure there are two great arguments that can be made on this topic but the fact is, if you disrespect the OP like so many people have, then you are not really that reasonable. Not saying you have to agree with him, but you need to acknowledge the other side - in this case that the recent drafts have had problems.

For me, I think the underpinning fact is that you build great teams in this league by drafting offensive and defensive lineman. As for the skill players, let the busts weed out and pick them up in FA and trades, hopefully before their full potential costs you in trade or contract value.

Look at this team's line on both sides of the ball. ALL DRAFTED.

Disrespecting an unreasonable argument = unreasonable? We're disrespecting him because we're fed up w/ the fact that this is the same thread that he starts every other month or so. We get it, but he's wrong, and we've proven him wrong multiple times over.

It's too early to evaluate 2008 and 2009, and in 2006 and 2007 we had two combined second and third round picks, and both of their careers were derailed by injury. So what this all comes down to is a guy pitching a fit because only a couple second-day picks from 2-3 years ago have stuck with the most talented team in the NFL. That's a pretty ridiculous thing to be angry about.
 
I believe Ian created this forum for this type of thread. You know, toss a match on some gasoline and watch it burn type thread.
 
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I agree with the man. The drafts haven't been great. I hate to see so many people bash someone when we all know its true. Just think about how much better we could be if just ONE of those picks on defense could have turned out to be a superstar(Excluding 1st round, hence MAYO). DEFENSE has cost us 2 championships. I'd like to see more ASANTE'S and less wheatley's.

The drafts from the last two years are very likely to have set the team up for the next run of its Dynasty. I'm sorry you guys seem to think the 2008 and 2009 drafts are terrible. They are probably the exact opposite, but I encourage you to watch the games.

In the next year or two, the following players will end up as starters for this team: Mayo, Meriweather, Wilhite, Ingram, Chung, Brace, Vollmer, Butler, Guyton.

You people have no freakin' IDEA about football if you think this isn't something other teams would kill for.
 
I think if Belichick would give them
tighter numbers they would have a better chance of making the team.

Go back a couple pages, I said the same exact thing:D

Should of just given them some TIGHT numbers, then we'd have no problems!
 
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