Patriots are putting together a trade package to get A.J. Hawk

[Rene Vallieres]

Seymour Trade

Uh, why would a team trade their high first round pick for Seymour, with his existing contract only having one more year on it? He then becomes a FA after one year, and they could lose him. That would be real bright - give up a high #1 to get him for one year? Since the Pats can't renegotiate his contract until August, they'd be trading him with the existing contract.

The Pats can't renegotiate until August, but I believe they can trade him. Typically, when a trade like that is made, it doesn't happen until the team getting the player, first agrees to terms on a new contract. RE: the trade that is about to happen with the Bills and the Texans. The Texans first agreed to terms with Moulds, and now they have to give the Bills the draft choice they want to complete the trade. Same with Seymour. Negotiate the new deal and then complete the trade. I agree that you certainly wouldn't trade the #2 pick in the first round for a player with one year left and then hope he re-signs later. If you are correct, and he can't renegotiate before August, even with the new team he is traded to, then this whole deal is not valid. That angle did not occur to me. Thanks for your input.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Pats can't renegotiate until August, but I believe they can trade him. Typically, when a trade like that is made, it doesn't happen until the team getting the player, first agrees to terms on a new contract. RE: the trade that is about to happen with the Bills and the Texans. The Texans first agreed to terms with Moulds, and now they have to give the Bills the draft choice they want to complete the trade. Same with Seymour. Negotiate the new deal and then complete the trade. I agree that you certainly wouldn't trade the #2 pick in the first round for a player with one year left and then hope he re-signs later. If you are correct, and he can't renegotiate before August, even with the new team he is traded to, then this whole deal is not valid. That angle did not occur to me. Thanks for your input.

Don't get buffaloed on this one, a new team with an enormous cap, like Green Bay, could negotiate a deal before August. They need DL help and they have cap room and a high draft pick to use as bait. The only things to account for, Sey's replacement on the line and how cooperative is he in reaching an agreement in principal now, so that the Pats can plan the rest of the off-season moves. Once those two questions are answered, you can pick your poison.

 

[Feep_FLA]

I must reiterate my original point.... WE WANT A.J. HAWK!!!! :rocker:

 

[big mike]

Can anyone explain why a team with a shot at drafting Mario Williams (which I assume would be the case, since you're saying we would trade Seymour to get a pick to use to get Williams) would choose to trade that pick for Seymour, rather than drafting Williams themselves? At this point, Williams is viewed as someone who is going to be a stellar DE. They could get him young, and with a cheaper contract than they could get Seymour (assuming they could renegotiate his contract).

It just seems rather silly to me - both for the other team to want to make the trade, and for us to (unless Seymour has indicated that he is just not going to re-sign here).

 

[Rene Vallieres]

Seymour Trade

Can anyone explain why a team with a shot at drafting Mario Williams (which I assume would be the case, since you're saying we would trade Seymour to get a pick to use to get Williams) would choose to trade that pick for Seymour, rather than drafting Williams themselves? At this point, Williams is viewed as someone who is going to be a stellar DE. They could get him young, and with a cheaper contract than they could get Seymour (assuming they could renegotiate his contract).

It just seems rather silly to me - both for the other team to want to make the trade, and for us to (unless Seymour has indicated that he is just not going to re-sign here).

Thanks for your feedback. My thinking was that Seymour already has a handful of rings. What he wants now is a big payday, and who can blame him? I feel that since the Pats can't renegotiate until August, the "smart" thing to do would be to play the season and auction himself off. At that point, the Pats would/could not match the dollars. That being said, I have to believe (IMHO) that Seymour is a much more attractive option and worth a lot more than Mario Williams. Seymour is (perhaps) the best DE in the NFL. He is a proven quantity. He is just entering his prime and has (at least) 6-7 very productive years left in his tank. The only reason BB trades him is to get the extra draft pick (maybe a low 3rd rd if they trade with Green Bay, N.O., or the Jets) and because BB has to know now that he won't spend the money on Seymour when the time comes. Since he has Jarvis Green and M. Hill, he could even trade for the HAWK and not Mario. The key here is that whoever he gets for the Seymour trade is signed for 6 years as a 1st rounder. Again, the signing bonus for this pick would be big, but the yearly salary for the 6 years would be a lot lower, thus a smaller cap hit for the new guy. In order for this to appeal to the 3 teams mentioned above, they would have to view Seymour as a monster player who is just getting into his prime years. I don't think that those teams would have a problem seeing Seymour in that light. Anyway, as always, we're all just speculating. Thanks for posting.

 

[b72s]

Nyet

Not Happening!!!!

# of reasons but we can dream but the cost is too much and not sure a BB player

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Don't count Super Lazy Mario as a lock. Watch film (videotape) on this guy and one of the first things you notice is, he takes plays off. While that is not a death nail, it's an indication of his future performance.
If we traded a 1st, 3rd and 4th this year and a third next year to move up and take Hawk, that would be most excellent in my book.
There are very few "locks" in any draft, but I think Hawk is (barring injury) fairly close to one.

 

[jeremiahct]

you would have to weigh him against the possible defenders coming out next year, in order to make that.

 

[Irish Hooligan]

Thanks for your feedback. My thinking was that Seymour already has a handful of rings. What he wants now is a big payday, and who can blame him? I feel that since the Pats can't renegotiate until August, the "smart" thing to do would be to play the season and auction himself off. At that point, the Pats would/could not match the dollars. That being said, I have to believe (IMHO) that Seymour is a much more attractive option and worth a lot more than Mario Williams. Seymour is (perhaps) the best DE in the NFL. He is a proven quantity. He is just entering his prime and has (at least) 6-7 very productive years left in his tank. The only reason BB trades him is to get the extra draft pick (maybe a low 3rd rd if they trade with Green Bay, N.O., or the Jets) and because BB has to know now that he won't spend the money on Seymour when the time comes. Since he has Jarvis Green and M. Hill, he could even trade for the HAWK and not Mario. The key here is that whoever he gets for the Seymour trade is signed for 6 years as a 1st rounder. Again, the signing bonus for this pick would be big, but the yearly salary for the 6 years would be a lot lower, thus a smaller cap hit for the new guy. In order for this to appeal to the 3 teams mentioned above, they would have to view Seymour as a monster player who is just getting into his prime years. I don't think that those teams would have a problem seeing Seymour in that light. Anyway, as always, we're all just speculating. Thanks for posting.

YES! I doubt any of this will happen, but what an awesome train of thought. All aboard man, if the FO is going to sit on their hands for weeks at a time I need something to talk\think about while waiting for opening day and Red Sox Rangers. :singing: :singing: :singing:

 

[big mike]

If we traded a 1st, 3rd and 4th this year and a third next year to move up and take Hawk, that would be most excellent in my book.
There are very few "locks" in any draft, but I think Hawk is (barring injury) fairly close to one.

We'd likely need to get to number 4 or 5 to get him, and I can't see either of those teams making that trade for our 1st, 3rd, 4th, and next year's 3rd. They'd want our second this year, and perhaps our first next year. Not worth it at all for us, IMO.

I think your assessment of Hawk having much better instincts than Carpenter is way off. I haven't seen any scouting report that has said Carpenter doesn't have anything less than great instincts. Is your assessment of that based on a few highlight footage plays of Hawk? It's very easy for it to look that way in highlights - say for example Hawk was supposed to be blitzing on a play, while Carpenter was supposed to drop into zone. The offense happens to run a play right at Hawk, and it ends up looking like he read it immediately at the snap, while Carpenter took a while to figure out what was going on (since he was supposed to be dropping back in coverage).

 

[mavfan2390]

ok
you guys got me thinking

seymour to saints, with #21,

for

#2 overall (mario williams), donte stallworth, and courtney watson

 

[Feep_FLA]

ok
you guys got me thinking

seymour to saints, with #21,

for

#2 overall (mario williams), donte stallworth, and courtney watson

Done! It's a deal! No-brainers are soooooo easy on the brain! :rocker:

 

[spacecrime]

His absence dispelled any doubt as to Richard's true value to the defense.

I agree, if you are you referring to our defeating the Colts and Steelers in the playoffs the year before last without Seymour. I recall Jarvis Green stepping in and our defense not missing a beat.

 

[PSU]

Keep watchin'.......Ray Lewis is comin' to town.

 

[PSU]

Ray Lewis!!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ray Lewis!!

Who?

 

[jczxohn1]

I agree, if you are you referring to our defeating the Colts and Steelers in the playoffs the year before last without Seymour. I recall Jarvis Green stepping in and our defense not missing a beat.

Also, it is difficult to assess the addition of Seymour at that time since Hobbs came in for Starks, Bruschi came back, Colvin started playing better run-support, Wilfork adjusted his position, Hawkins took over at SS, and Vrabel moved inside all within the same 3 wk period. Seymour is no doubt an awesome prescence, but a lot of other things changed at the same time which ultimately effected the success of the 2nd half of the D's season.

 

[mavfan2390]

ok Pats trade current 1st and second, and sixth, and future 1st for AJ.....Green Bay thinks to the future, they think that the future first rounder we gave them might be a high one based on our losses, and they realize they have more needs then draft picks in a deep draft, so they bite

based on several projects we could end up with this: Hawk, Drew, Stovall, Nande, and the rest

not bad :rocker:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I love science-fantasy stories.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Big Mike (Carpenter vs. Hawk)

Have you ever watched an OSU game??? Do you know what you are looking at??? I've had doubts about your knowledge of the game before, but now I'm convinced, you have no clue. Let me say it again. Based on a scale of 1 to 10. Hawk's instincts = 10. Carpenter = 5 (maybe).
Read the scouting reports. I think the first one I looked at that supported my thoery was from PFW, but there are tons more by many former scouts.
I now know, you don't know squat about the game so let me clue you in to some key phrases.
When it says super instictive, seems to know where the ball is going before it's snapped, and gets to the correct spot early nearly all the time. That would be Hawk.
When it says, slow to react, needs time to read before reacting, needs to line up as rush LB because anything else is too confusing for him. That's Carpenter.
Better yet, don't take my or any other scout's word for what I'm saying, just watch a game for yourself. It's not hard even for people like you that don't know squat.