Patriots 2011 Offensive Line

[TheComeback]

It Is What It Is » Some quick notes on the Patriots’ Saturday afternoon practice

Interesting. Guess I'll just have to eat my words now. I'd like to see how Solder performs there in a preseason game.

Either way, I'm not worrying about what was one of the best offensive lines in football last year. If they break down early on in the regular season, that's when we start getting concerned.

 

[patfanken]

For the sake of comparison look no further than the last game. Tampa Bay's offensive line did not look good, and RG Ted Larsen in particular had a night to forget. In other words, thing s could be worse - a lot worse than they are right now for this unit.


As for Connolly, I like the idea of him eventually returning to the role of the team's primary interior backup lineman. The unfortunate reality is that linemen do get hurt, and a player of Connolly's caliber is as good as you can reasonably expect from a backup.

Here's a look at the number of games missed by the Pats' starting interior offensive linemen in each of the last few years:

2010 - 15
2009 - 4
2008 - 7
2007 - 9
2006 - 3
2005 - 7

That's 45 games in six years, and that's not counting the number of snaps that a reserve gets in place of a starter who gets injured and have to be replaced during the course of a game.

I'm very happy with the stat of our OTs. Light and Volmer as as good as any pair in the conference and there is nothing NOT to like from what we've seen from Marini and Solder. That's a very good foursome.

But as to the interior OL....not so much. Who is out there in FA who could come in here and at least improve our back up interior line situation. Did the Giants release their starting OG who has also played C on occasion. Seabart or something like that. I;m sure there HAS to be a ton of guys out there like that who need a job.

Maybe I'm undervaluing guys like Orenberger, and Wendell. They "seem" to be adequate when they get in, but for some reason, I'm usually underwhelmed,

What's out there JM

 

[Kontradiction]

Now if only Koppen were stronger to stop the bull rush up the middle. I like our line except for Koppen. he has been great value for the team based on where he was picked. However when our guards are injured he becomes exposed for his lack of strength. Not complaining and apparently he does what Bill and Dante want ... so in belichick I trust.

Since that's not going to happen, we have to stick with Koppen and Connolly (the two areas of weakness on our O-Line) and hope that they can contain bigger DT's. According to Reiss's observations of the Tampa game, the only complaint that he could really make about the O-Line was that Connolly seemed to be getting pushed around by Gerald McCoy. As of right now, it could be a whole lot worse. Koppen is much better than Ohrnberger seems to be at this point while Connolly is a good run blocker.

 

[Kontradiction]

It Is What It Is » Some quick notes on the Patriots’ Saturday afternoon practice

Wow. First a RT leapfrogs Connolly at LG in the starting line-up, and now a raw, rookie LT is taking snaps with the starting unit in practice? Where are all of those vehement Connolly defenders that passionately made arguments that he was a starting quality G last summer?

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow. First a RT leapfrogs Connolly at LG in the starting line-up, and now a raw, rookie LT is taking snaps with the starting unit in practice? Where are all of those vehement Connolly defenders that passionately made arguments that he was a starting quality G last summer?

You know my position on Connolly, but this could be a situation where the Patriots just want Solder to get work at different spots, or just don't like the interior depth and want Solder to get some work there. We'd probably know more if Cannon were healthy.

Having said that, a line of

Light
Mankins
Koppen
Solder
Vollmer

would be interesting to watch. Charting Brady's throws on each side, with all that height on the right, would be an NFL stat geek's dream.

 

[patfanken]

It Is What It Is » Some quick notes on the Patriots’ Saturday afternoon practice

Oh cool. So he did get some snaps there. Interesting. I'm not sure what I'd read into it, However I think it says more about BB's growing confidence in Solder that he thinks he can be that versatile and mentally focused,that taking snaps there isn't going to screw him up; than it says anything negative about Connolly. BB knows what he has in Connolly,

 

[BTTA]

this could be a situation where the Patriots just want Solder to get work at different spots

That is, of course, what the coach said: that he can only take 7 OL into a game so he wants as much flexibility as possible. If Solder is going to be active, he's going to have to be able to play more than one position. The two non starters have to be able to fill in at multiple positions.

 

[jah]

Wow. First a RT leapfrogs Connolly at LG in the starting line-up, and now a raw, rookie LT is taking snaps with the starting unit in practice? Where are all of those vehement Connolly defenders that passionately made arguments that he was a starting quality G last summer?

I feel stupid, who was the RT that leapfrogged Connolly? LeVoir?

 

[Kontradiction]

I feel stupid, who was the RT that leapfrogged Connolly? LeVoir?

Kaczur, before he got hurt.

 

[rufcut]

That is, of course, what the coach said: that he can only take 7 OL into a game so he wants as much flexibility as possible. If Solder is going to be active, he's going to have to be able to play more than one position. The two non starters have to be able to fill in at multiple positions.

This is the actual quote:

In offensive line work, rookie left tackle Nate Solder got some work at right guard. After practice, Belichick was asked about Solder at a different spot. “We’re going to look at players at a lot of different positions, like we always do so we have depth on our roster,” he said. “We only take seven linemen to a game; you’ve got to double up.”

Like BTTA, I'm not seeing a plan to start Solder at guard here.

 

[mrscruff]

When does Koppens contract expire anyway?

This is the last year of Koppen's contract. He is a free agent at the end of this season if an extension is not agreed.

For those asking about Rich Seubert, he had surgery this offseason after suffering a dislocated right knee cap in the final regular season game of 2010 and teams seem to be reluctant to offer him a long term deal. Perhaps once the season starts and contracts are no longer guaranteed for veterans he will get offers.

His team mate Shaun O'Hara is also available at this moment in time as are Leonard Davis, Vince Manuwai and Brian Waters.

 

[ALP]

the dans are obviously are weak links

we are set at LT now and for the future with light and nate
we are set at LG with mankins
we are set at RT with vollmer (though the guy can play LT too, just seems at the moment we need him at RT)

ppl are correct about the bull rush on koppen, his only weakness...he is not up to par with the other three lineman above

connolly did wonderful last year, but is also not on par with the first three guys, he may be the most athletic of all our O-linemen and can pull real nice on running plays.....but is not as strong as I would like...not sure if i want him starting though

 

[jmt57]

No one is suggesting that Connolly isn't a fine backup.

We are not addressing the elephant in the room. Why haven't we seen 2-3 veteran offensive lineman in camp to compete with Connolly for a starting roster spot? After all, there are no real cap constraints. Could it be that Belichick and Dante are fine with our interior line starters?

For me, bringing in a staring RG who would be even marginally better than Connolly would greatly improve the OL, since Connolly would now provide fine depth.

I'm very happy with the stat of our OTs. Light and Volmer as as good as any pair in the conference and there is nothing NOT to like from what we've seen from Marini and Solder. That's a very good foursome.

But as to the interior OL....not so much. Who is out there in FA who could come in here and at least improve our back up interior line situation. Did the Giants release their starting OG who has also played C on occasion. Seabart or something like that. I;m sure there HAS to be a ton of guys out there like that who need a job.

Maybe I'm undervaluing guys like Orenberger, and Wendell. They "seem" to be adequate when they get in, but for some reason, I'm usually underwhelmed,

What's out there JM

I would guess the answer to that is that the Pats did not see a free agent guard out there they considered to be a significant upgrade over Connolly, that was also worth it in terms of value for the amount of money that it would cost to sign him.

A second consideration is Marcus Cannon; if they were planning on not placing him on IR, then you start running out of roster spaces real quick if you add another interior lineman.

Also consider what happens when Cannon does work his way into the starting lineup; Connolly has the versatility to be an adequate backup at three positions; not all free agents that may have been available can say the same thing.

One last thought: it seems to me that continuity and cohesiveness is an integral part to the success of an offensive line. Players need to have an intuition about what the guy next to them will do without any delay in thinking about it; otherwise two offensive linemen end up blocking the same opponent, resulting in another defender having an open gap, untouched to the running back or quarterback.


I'm not saying that guys can never contribute right away on an offensive line - Vollmer, Mankins and Light did exactly that, for example. But the team is already trying to integrate Solder, and later do the same with Cannon; what effect would a third new player have to the performance of the line? Maybe that would just be too many changes at once.


Here's one list of available free agent guards at the start of free agency, and what has happened with them. For the most part I see three categories: guys that the Pats were never going to sign because they were too expensive in relation to what they were looking for; older guys that have a lot of injury history; and JAGs that aren't really an upgrade over Connolly.

WalterFootball.com: 2011 NFL Free Agents - Guards

 

[mgteich]

If Cannon is near ready to contribute, then there is no issue at all.

I would guess the answer to that is that the Pats did not see a free agent guard out there they considered to be a significant upgrade over Connolly, that was also worth it in terms of value for the amount of money that it would cost to sign him.

A second consideration is Marcus Cannon; if they were planning on not placing him on IR, then you start running out of roster spaces real quick if you add another interior lineman.

Also consider what happens when Cannon does work his way into the starting lineup; Connolly has the versatility to be an adequate backup at three positions; not all free agents that may have been available can say the same thing.

One last thought: it seems to me that continuity and cohesiveness is an integral part to the success of an offensive line. Players need to have an intuition about what the guy next to them will do without any delay in thinking about it; otherwise two offensive linemen end up blocking the same opponent, resulting in another defender having an open gap, untouched to the running back or quarterback.


I'm not saying that guys can never contribute right away on an offensive line - Vollmer, Mankins and Light did exactly that, for example. But the team is already trying to integrate Solder, and later do the same with Cannon; what effect would a third new player have to the performance of the line? Maybe that would just be too many changes at once.


Here's one list of available free agent guards at the start of free agency, and what has happened with them. For the most part I see three categories: guys that the Pats were never going to sign because they were too expensive in relation to what they were looking for; older guys that have a lot of injury history; and JAGs that aren't really an upgrade over Connolly.

WalterFootball.com: 2011 NFL Free Agents - Guards

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Homer talking...would love for the Pats to go O line in the 1st round for my man Mike Brewster.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I think with Logan Mankins, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Sebastian Vollmer and Connolly we have one of the top Offensive Lines in the league easily.

 

[Don Kipines]

Solder was apparently practicing at guard this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the mix for Connolly's spot.

 

[conway]

If light starts at Lt, I could envision Solder at RG in a goalline package where connolly moves to FB.

 

[patchick]

Solder was apparently practicing at guard this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the mix for Connolly's spot.

Personally, I'd be stunned to see Solder start at guard except in an injury scenario. He's never played any line position except LT, and even Kaczur struggled with interior DL getting under his pads when he tried to play guard. Solder's length is extreme even at tackle.

So I'm going to read the tea leaves differently on this one. Instead of saying it bodes ill for Connolly, I'll say it bodes well for Matt Light. It's the backup tackle who'd usually crosstrain for gameday emergencies, no?

 

[mgteich]

My view was that Belichick was trying to figure what positions Solder might be able to backup on Game Day. And, yes, I expect Light to be starting at LT.

Personally, I'd be stunned to see Solder start at guard except in an injury scenario. He's never played any line position except LT, and even Kaczur struggled with interior DL getting under his pads when he tried to play guard. Solder's length is extreme even at tackle.

So I'm going to read the tea leaves differently on this one. Instead of saying it bodes ill for Connolly, I'll say it bodes well for Matt Light. It's the backup tackle who'd usually crosstrain for gameday emergencies, no?