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Pat Tillman murdered by US troops?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, until more evidence is provided, i'm not willing to buy this... a doctor didn't like the look of bullet holes and their proximity, ok... but what else?

    it's bad enough that a cover-up existed perhaps all the way up to the White House... but this story just keeps getting uglier and uglier...
     
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    At first it sounded realy suspicious,3 bullet holes to the forehead in combat? But then I remembered that newer versions of the m 16 have a 3 burst selecter. It can fire a single shot,three shots, or your can put it on full auto and empty the magazine. Since its hard to keep the rifle steady on full auto the three shot burst is preferd. So someone aimed pulled the trigger once and three shots were discharged. So that may explain it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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  5. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    So an Al Qaeda terrorist aimed his rifle at Tilman's head, pulled the trigger once. and three shots entered Tillman's forehead?


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  6. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    No,an ak 47 doesan't have this feature.But an M16 does. Since the rate of fire of a M16 is so high the 3 rounds would have left the barrale before it moved from the recoil,therefore creating the tight,or close pattern on Tillmans head. To someone looking at his wounds it might appear like he was shot three seperate times. So it would either have to be from a fellow ranger,or a terrorist useing a M16. But the way the average Taliban likes their weapons on full auto and spray a target(just my opinion) not a 3 shoot burst, from watching news clips it seems unlikely it would have been a member of the Taliban,or AQ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  7. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    How do you explain this?

    (1) No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

    The only evidence of any fighting were the 3 bullets on Tilman's forehead.

    (2) Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

    Why are the Army lawyers sending congratulatory emails??

    (3) The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

    How does the general not recall anything about the incident??


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  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    What do you think? It was one of his own men who fired the shots. And the Army covered it up because he was being used as a recruitment tool by the likes of Rumsfeld,and he had to die a hero's death. The real question is was Tillman fraged. My original post was just to explain how he could have been shot three times ,and all three bullets struck close to each other. Not to try to explain anything else I.E. a coverup. But looking at it closer and haveing heard more since it could have been murder.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Almost everyone in the field keeps it on 3-shot. It's standard when engaged, or even when on patrol. Full auto is for an all-out assault and with plenty of ammo; single shot is for low ammo times.


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  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    It's possible he was fragged, but I lean toward the confusion of war and very green soldiers in the field doing their first big op. They broke SOP by dividing into two groups, something that should only be done by highly experienced field troops, which most of these E-3s and 4s alongside Tillman were not.


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  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, Bush and Cheney ordered it. Tillman was getting too much good ink (!!??).

    Wow. You really *are* obsessed with Bush. You need help, son.


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  12. bmf31c

    bmf31c Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    My 2 cents: Ranger units use the M4 which is a smaller version of the old M16. I believe they use the M4A1 which possesses the capability to fire on full automatic. A regular M4 fires three round burst. The M4 weapon system has a three position selector switch, safe, semi and three round burst or auto depending on model nomenclature. None of the weapons have three round burst and auto on the same system.
    From my experience you cannot fire a three round burst into a tight shot group. The weapon would "walk up" on your target. Each round you fired would raise the weapon slightly. SOF units are taught the double tap shooting technique and a trained rifleman should be able to put 2 rounds into the area of a quarter. The shots are fired on semi quickly while holding the same sight picture.
    Getting three rounds off into a forehead before the body hits the ground would be very hard if not impossible. A double tap, then a close quarter final shot seems like a more likely scenario, in my humble opinion.
     
  13. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    first off, you're either the dumbest Moonie ever or a complete PoS for insinuating that's even remotely what i said...

    second, you're either the dumbest Moonie ever or a complete PoS for insinuating that's even remotely what i said...

    at some point, please get a tactful clue on perspective before speaking, if at all possible... i never said they ordered it... what i SAID was: no one knows how far up the chain the cover-up went... get it now, perhaps? or are you still mired in Limbaughosity?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The article raises disturbing questions, and the entire dishonest handling of the Tillman case by the Bush administration raises other disturbing questions.

    At any rate, for the me the biggest question is,

    Was the decision to cover up information about Tillman's death related to the Bush administration's decision to exploit the tragedy as part of its propaganda campaign?
     
  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    What is disturbing is that almost every thread is dragged into get Bush theme.
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, in the opinion of his opponents, Bush is operating a corrupt and inept administration. As Truman said, "The buck stops here." (Or, do you subscribe to the Bush administration credo, "Blame Clinton.")
     
  17. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    This just never ends.
     
  18. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Ok, then when Clinton was president it was his fault for the AQ uprise and planning of 911. Gottcha

    Look if Tilman was murdered while Bush was president, then because the buck stops with Bush then any cover up has to go straight to the top. Gottcha.

    Great logic.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And, given what was known then, what specifically did Bush do to thwart the Al Qaeda threat during his first 8 months in office?

    No, we don't know where the buck stops, but what confuses the matter is that Tillman's deaths was exploited to political ends, so it's quite plausible that the matter might have reached as high as the White House, where the President is responsible for the individuals he hires and surrounds himself with.
     
  20. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    And what had Bush done 6 years after 9/11??

    Nothing.

    The perpetrators of the terrorist act are still alive and living under the nose of American soldiers in Pakistan and Aftghanistan.


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