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Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch holy crap....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The hearings yesterday looked like a royal skewing of the Dept of Defense on how they disseminate information and how they play with the results, and ultimately how it impacts the families of fallen soldiers.. find the Jessica Lynch info telling as to what the DOD intended and how it failed.. seems every war has their heroes, Sgt. York.. Audie Murphy, however always believed their efforts were exaggaterated for the sake of US "morale" and military recruiting. IN the cases of Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch they dropped the ball bigtime, not sure of the outcome of all of this, but Rumsfield looks worse every day..

    http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_5745244

    WASHINGTON - The brother of Pat Tillman, the soldier who saw Tillman die and the naval officer who eulogized him told Congress in emotional testimony Tuesday that the military misled the nation and betrayed Tillman's family with false stories about how the former NFL star and San Jose native died.

    Kevin Tillman, who served with his brother in an Army Ranger platoon, went further. With his mother, Mary Tillman, at his side and military brass sitting behind him, he accused leaders of "exploiting Pat's death" with "deliberate, calculated lies" that suppressed how other Rangers accidentally killed Tillman in a 2004 "friendly fire" incident in Afghanistan.

    "This wasn't a misstep or error in judgment," said Kevin Tillman, who was speaking in public for the first time about his brother's death and how news about it was handled by the military. The Army and others, he said, "attempted to hijack his virtue and his legacy."

    The purpose of the embellished story, he charged, was to deflect Americans' attention from some unsavory aspects of the war in Iraq, and that it worked - for a while.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2064935,00.html

    A female US soldier who came to personify the US invasion of Iraq yesterday appeared before a Congressional hearing to reject the Pentagon's portrayal of her as "Rambo from West Virginia", shot down in a blaze of glory.
    Appearing as a witness at the Congressional committee investigating military misinformation from the battlefield, Jessica Lynch said: "Tales of great heroism were being told. My parent's home in Wirt county [West Virginia] was under siege of the media all repeating the story of the little girl Rambo from the hills who went down fighting. It was not true."

    Ms Lynch was a 19-year-old private captured by Iraqis in an ambush at Nassiriya in the opening days of the war and subsequently rescued by US forces.

    She told the committee: "I have repeatedly said, when asked, that if the stories about me helped inspire our troops and rally a nation, then perhaps there was some good.

    http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/04/25/ap/washington/d8ong4g80.txt

    WASHINGTON - An Army Ranger who was with Pat Tillman when the former football star was cut down by friendly fire in Afghanistan said Tuesday a commanding officer had ordered him to keep quiet about what happened.

    The military at first portrayed Tillman's death as the result of heroic combat with the enemy. Army Spc. Bryan O'Neal told a congressional hearing that when he got the chance to talk to Tillman's brother, who had been in a nearby convoy on the fateful day, "I was ordered not to tell him what happened."

    "You were ordered not to tell him?" repeated Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

    "Roger that, sir," replied O'Neal, dressed in his Army uniform.
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    11 Posts on Rap Music
    about 20 on Rosie O'Donnell
    0 On Jessica lynch, Pat tillman and the gov't lies.. something is wrong here.
     
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    They both pointed out what is wrong with the way this country is run.

    Our leaders are more interested in 'selling lies' than 'telling truth'. By acting this way, they deminish the heroic acts of our soldiers. What was done with Pat Tillman and Jessic Lynch was unamerican, unpatriotic, and wrong. Why do we as a nation keep digesting these spoonfed stories and asking for seconds? The answer is simple....and GJAJ15 pointed it out :

    "11 Posts on Rap Music
    about 20 on Rosie O'Donnell
    0 On Jessica lynch, Pat tillman and the gov't lies.. "

    we are becoming a pathetic bunch of sheep.
     
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    As much as you want to place blame according to your partisan agenda, I think what we have is a military that has literally been doing this sort of thing for over 2 centuries. A little hero worship goes a long way towards gaining public relations. Don't be so foolish as to think this exact same thing wasn't going on in the Civil War, WW1, WW2, etc.

    Problem is that in this day and age, there is just too much media for lies to go unchecked anymore. But it sure makes ya wonder how much bullcrap there is from prior wars that we just don't know the truth about...
     
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree with that, but just because it's been done on before doesn't make it ok now, not that you're saying that. I think there is a point with the moral thing and feel good stories can help moral. In this case it backfired though so it's probably not worth the risk. That applies more to the Jessica Lynch story than to Pat Tillman. The Tillman cover-up was more about saving face and covering their own asses than anything. And sorry pundants, you do seem to use these stories to claim some kind of political superiority. Military cover-ups have been going on for a long time under lots of different leadership. Stop acting like it started or increased under the Bush administration.
     
  6. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    And don't forget....Clinton got a BJ. :rolleyes:
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe this was qualified when I spoke of Alvin York and Audie Murphy, I am cognizant of this, however in Jessica Lynch she was unwilling and in Tillman's case his family has gotten the runaround and lies. There is a difference in this day and age of information.
     
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    in other words, "so they lied, what's the big deal?... the crusade is worth it"

    if it was done in the past, it was wrong then also... lying doesn't get a free pass today when it's assumed it was overlooked in decades gone by... simple morals and ethics... it seems Loyal Bushies will never own up to being immoral, and instead immediately use the grade school logic "but, he did it first!!"
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I have mixed feelings about this. I really get depressed when I see Tillman's picture. I get depressed because people like him are few and far between. He wasn't supposed to die is how I felt when I first heard the news. When you hear that he was killed by his own forces, it's even more tragic. See, I'm upset that people lied, but at the same time, I can somewhat understand the reasons behind it. Tillman passed up millions to fight for his countrymen in Afghanistan (not Iraq) because of what happened on 9/11. I think the vast majority of sane people honor, and respect that. My guess is that those in the know, at that time of the incident, didn't want to spoil, or diminish his sacrafice by revealing it was Americans that killed him. I dunno, his loss is truly tragic. He was a certifiable hero.
     
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    on a side note, Jessica Lynch is hot...
     
  11. ArmyPatsFan

    ArmyPatsFan On the Game Day Roster

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    I do not know enough to comment on the Lynch (although I think that was more media diven then military ...but ehh?) or Tillman. I do know that the story about the SPC being orderd to keep his mouth shut is legitimate and exactly what should have happened. Fratricide events require a Field Grade level inquiry (or min O3) and report and those involved are supposed to keep quiet until the reports are complete and the findings issued. Unit morale has alot to do with this as the effect it can have is obviously devastating.

    The criminal intent by members of the unit theory by Tillman's brother is really a stretch imo....if I am understanding his position correctly. I think that is anger...justified in some respects.....clouding his judgement of his fellow Rangers.

    Fratricide occurs all the time.....horrible no doubt....much less than before (past conflicts) thanks to training and improved IFF and weapon technology. Things can go from clear to mud in firefights when instinct and training reaction take over.

    I do think the Army has dropped the ball on the Tillman case......saving face due to the "celebrity" status...not sure. Hope to find out more by researching this some more.
     

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