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Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Irish Hooligan, Apr 3, 2012.

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  1. Irish Hooligan

    Irish Hooligan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  2. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Works for me. I think the agenda in the background is Webb's return ability. That being said, he is too valuable to do that.

    I think the approach is right . Any D Back the Pats take has only 17% chance to be of the caliber of Webb (DB Draft 1st to 7th average) . Smart money says get Webb who is only 26. CAP will play a part, but a DB Drafted does not necessarily start. Pay a little more for a sure thing. This guy in in ink to start. Too small in my book, but very productive. I'd rather send the pick to the Vikings for Allen though.

    I think everyone is missing the point. We lost two guys with ten sacks apiece. This Draft does not address that. We have a few DTs already on our roster.Do we need Reyes? He would be a rotation guy as well. Our only possible sack guy is Scott. Fanene is good but a rotation DE/DT too and we just got him.

    If we fall asleep on Allen, I'd rather have a high motor guy with sack ability like Crick than Reyes as well. Crick is another Wright only with more talent. Can play DE or DT.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
  3. Sciz

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I don't understand the fascination with Webb. Prior to this season, he had 4 career starts. He tore an ACL two years ago. He's not even 5'10". He wasn't a starter entering training camp last year. His one high-quality season came as part of a defense including Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed. All of his value is based on that one season, and we all know how dangerous it is to judge a CB after one good season. The pick I can handle, but I wouldn't be too eager to offer a large amount of money for a one-year wonder.

    I like picks 27 and 48, not picks 31 and 62.
     
  4. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I agree. WR's are getting bigger. I don't want my CB's getting smaller.

    Reyes is an OK pick but not one that excites me. The only pick I like that he gives us is the McCellin pick in the 2nd. He's a kid that reminds me a lot of Ryan Kerrigan. I'm not real keen on Allen pick.At best he's a reach, plus I can't see the point of adding an in the box S when its not a need.

    BTW- my strong instinct is that Carter will be back
     
  5. supafly

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Last time I checked, we lost one guy who greatly overachieved and was a product of the system.

    You keep saying that 'we lost 2 guys with 20 sacks,' but that's just not true. Where has it been stated that Andre Carter is not returning?

    There are several thoughts to this post:

    1. We need to come close to replacing 6-8 sacks out of the '10' that Anderson left with. Why would that be so hard?

    2. The sacks and pressure will come from a collective unit and scheme, not from any one guy anyways.

    3. It can be argued that the sacks will increase with an improved secondary. With the return of Dowling, Chung (1/2 the season missed), an upgrade with Gregory, and a possible draft pick--that can very well happen.

    4. It can be argued that 'sacks' themselves are overrated anyway. It's points allowed that matter, and the possibility of shaving a point off of our average is very realistic. This would put us in the top 12 defenses in pts allowed. It's not all about sacks. The defense made great strides down the stretch, and a healthy return really made all the difference in the world with Spikes, Chung, and Fletcher.

    5. They may very well draft a pure edge rusher, which combined with the return of Pryor, the addition of Scott and Fanane, and the probable return of Carter will be more than fine to replace Anderson.

    --------

    As far as your point on the defensive line pick---yes, it is definitely needed for additional depth and competition. There are some great front 7 picks this year, and the front 7 in general is a major need for us. With 4 early picks in the top 63 choices, the team is in a pretty damn good position to make some improvements.

    Once again, you are pulling these "fan based fantasy trade scenarios" out of thin air...what makes you believe that the Minnesota Vikings are willing to part with one of the top 3 rushers in the entire NFL? There isn't any reason. You are not being realistic, you are simply playing Madden G.M. in fantastical terms.
     
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    b72s On the Game Day Roster

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Pass Rush > Coverage
     
  7. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    He is 5' 9 3/4"
    I don't have a problem getting a pro bowler for a pick, especially on defense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  8. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I don't know what it is with Kirwin but for forever he had us giving Pitt a first for Wallace and now with that scenario dead and buried he has us doing the same with the Ravens for Webb.

    Give it up Pat.
     
  9. UK_Pat37

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Don't see the fascination with Webb either. I could settle for Reyes quite happily if the board fell like that but I would rather package those two picks and move up.
     
  10. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I don't think Kirwin cares about money. Trying to sign Webb to a new contract will cost more than a first round CB would cost over 4 years. I'd rather take my chances on a first round corner at a lower cost.

    I love the other picks tho.
     
  11. Sciz

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    McCourty was a pro bowler a year ago, and he did it with a much worse supporting cast than Webb did. I don't expect nearly the same results, but Webb now is awfully similar to McCourty a year ago, except that he took two years in the NFL to get to that point.
     
  12. ctpatsfan77

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I think it's more exasperation at the thought of having to try and mock TWO players to the Patriots, when most draftniks can't even figure out one. :p
     
  13. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    It doesn't appear that McClellin will last until 48; Mayock has him ranked as the #2 OLB.
    If Bill wants him, he'll have to use 27 or 31 to get him.

    And no Courtney Upshaw in the 1st round? Surprising. He seems to be eating his way into
    being a permanent 4-3 DE. I'd rather have McClellin anyway.

    I'm also OK w/ the Reyes pick. We need more athletes on the DL, not more fatbodies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  14. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Assuming the film is as good as most experts think, your complaints above are really irrelevant. Tom Brady once played behind someone and had 4 career starts. Also, saying that a nickel back, as Webb was his first two years in the league, is not a "starter" is a stretch in today's NFL. I don't know why it is relevant that he tore his ACL two years ago when he played at a pro bowl level LAST YEAR. And being slight of build is not a problem if you understand how to use your body and look back for the ball. Ellis Hobbs never figured this out and that's why he never excelled, not because he was short.
     
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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    So you're saying making 10 plays a season isn't all that important in the big picture? Especially when one considers that half of Anderson's sacks came late in the 4th quarter when the game was out of reach and teams were desperately trying to narrow the final score. Mark me down as one who isn't overly impressed with sack totals, in and of themselves.

    I'm not overly concerned with replacing Anderson's contributions (I admit he did step up after Carter's injury) and I wish the Bill's well.
     
  16. sg14

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    Reyes makes me nervous. Just as soon stay away from unconn
    players. The last guy from there did not do so well
     
  17. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    I doubt the Pats pull the trigger on the trade but I think I might be ok with it if they did. Comparing Webb to McCourty is a little off imo. DM has shown to be a much better zone CB than he is a man to man. I'm sure some of it was mechanics with him not getting his head turned around to find the ball and some lousy safety play early on. He was cooked quite a bit last season through a stretch of games before getting it together.

    Webb played press man almost the entire New England game and did a very good job of it. He can also play in a multiple zones which makes him a good fit with massive versatility imo. He had 3 ints in the playoffs alone, granted 2 of them were against the sub par Houston QB, but still, showing up big in big games is an element I like to see out of Patriots and I would say he really stepped up in 11'. I'm not sure there is anyone in this draft class that you could honestly say make a more immediate impact right away at the cb position. And that includes Claiborne. At least in the short term.

    NFL Videos: Webb picks Brady
     
  18. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    The real shocker in the Kirwin's draft is Stephon Gilmore going #9 overall. That's the highest I"ve seen Gilmore ever, and by a lot... like 15 spots too high.

    The Webb thing doesn't make sense. Kirwin is trying to be clever and different from the million other mock drafts, but I just don't see the rationale.

    Reyes... I'm not sold on him. I would absolutely have taken Upshaw over him. BB has always done well with players who time too slow at the Combine but always seem to make important plays in important games.
     
  19. supafly

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    He's also not taking into acct that Belichick does not think too highly of overpaying for the CB position itself.

    He didn't do it with 2 probowl CB's here with Law or Samuel, and they both excelled (in some areas) in this system.

    He's certainly not going to do it with an outsider.

    All of our CB's are extremely cheap at the moment, if he didn't target a mid-range guy approx. 4-5 million per, he's certainly not going to give someone 10+ million that comes from another team.
     
  20. supafly

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    re: Pat Kirwin mock 4/3/12 - UConn DT Kendall Reyes & trade for CB Lardarius Webb

    We're pretty much in agreement.

    I'm saying that even IF one were to look at it as 'losing' 10 sacks from Anderson, there's really no reason to believe that the team cannot replace most of those sacks, at least 6-8 or so. (If one wants to look at it that way)

    I think the biggest weakness was the secondary by far, and as long as that's improved, I don't see why the defense can't move forward.

    Everyone keeps talking about 'all of these losses' from last yr...'WHO?' All I see is the loss of Anderson, which is offset by a bunch of other additions + hopeful young talented draft picks.

    Where are all of these 'losses' that will make the defense worse?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
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