Pass Interference Rule

[DaBruinz]

Refs in the NFL are old because it takes a long time for them to work their way up the ranks. Wonder how the product would improve if there was more a combine process for finding ref talent instead of it being more of a moonlighting career path.

It takes a "long time" to work your way up in almost any league. The problem is that being an official is not their primary focus. It's a secondary one. And because of that, we get the poor product we see on the field.

The NHL broadened their ranks by changing how they viewed officials, not just by adding another one. They also changed how the officials are reviewed. Every official in the NHL is issued a laptop and they get feedback withing 48 hours on how they did in their previous game. Particularly if they blew a major call or missed something major.

The NFL, on the other hand, doesn't do anything like this, to my knowledge. They are "graded" by the teams and those grades are supposed to be what determines who gets the call in the play-offs, though that got tossed out the window to allow Jerome Bogar to be the Head Referee for last year's SB. And it was one of the worst officiated games of the season.

As I said earlier, the Head of Officiating needs to be someone who has experience on the field. Not some desktop jockey like Blandino. They also should institute a review system like the NHL has. And, if the ref screws the pooch, hold him accountable. Don't do a half-assed CYA job like Blandino tried to pull last week.

Having the officials be full-time and in a program designed to help them make the calls the way they are supposed to would earn credibility with the fans and help take away the idea that is gaining traction that the games are fixed.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I don't remember nearly as many issues before Polian and co. got the rules changed to favor his team and emphasize contact. Now it's a mess and the whole league is suffering.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

goodell is a *****

 

[DaBruinz]

Agreed. All of that experience is nice, in theory, but not if it's experience with old rules and your mobility and eyesight are deteriorated. I get that ex-players are refs wouldn't work (imagine when a game was swung on a call by a player who used to play for the benefitting team), but is there any reason why a handful of D3 college players can't be selected, trained, and gradually work their way into officiating crews over a period of a few years?

Wouldn't even need to be D3 players. I'd take young guys/girls who have been officials for a few years at the High School level and train them and work them in.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't remember nearly as many issues before Polian and co. got the rules changed to favor his team and emphasize contact. Now it's a mess and the whole league is suffering.

The league had changed the Pass Interference Rules at least twice prior to Polian getting the PI rules made a point of emphasis. But it wasn't just Polian. All the owners agreed to make PI a point of emphasis.

 

[DaBruinz]

goodell is a *****

The point of emphasis took place under Tags, not Goodell. But I agree with your sentiments on Goodell. He's been a negative for the league from a fan's perspective. Unfortunately, the owners just gave him another extension recently.

 

[Joker]

Having the officials be full-time and in a program designed to help them make the calls the way they are supposed to would earn credibility with the fans and help take away the idea that is gaining traction that the games are fixed.

we were arguing about this THIRTEEN YEARS AGO on this board. It was the right thing to do then and it's the right thing to do now...unless...someone or some people WANT it this way. These specious calls are beyond ridiculous and a constant insult to our intelligence.

 

[SteelersCanada]

Let's call a spade a spade here though. IIRC, Arrington tackled AB before the ball got there and it was intercepted due to the tackle in the game earlier this season. Now I know you guys feel shafted after two straight weeks of questionable calls, but it evens out. That play in particular stuck out because of the interception as a result.

I'm not saying we would've won the game or anything had there been a flag, but it goes both ways. This kind of stuff usually finds a way to even itself out over the course of a season.

 

[SB39]

Agreed. All of that experience is nice, in theory, but not if it's experience with old rules and your mobility and eyesight are deteriorated. I get that ex-players are refs wouldn't work (imagine when a game was swung on a call by a player who used to play for the benefitting team), but is there any reason why a handful of D3 college players can't be selected, trained, and gradually work their way into officiating crews over a period of a few years?

You want guys with "a few years" experience instead of guys with a few decades? Gotta disagree with that one.

Yes these guys are older than the players but they're not exactly elderly. I have no doubt their eyesight is fine. As for their mobility, I doubt any one of us would be any faster on the field than any of them. NFLers are pro athletes in peak physical shape. No one is going to be able to keep up with them.

 

[SB39]

Having the officials be full-time and in a program designed to help them make the calls the way they are supposed to would earn credibility with the fans and help take away the idea that is gaining traction that the games are fixed.

I see this all the time and while it sounds nice, it just isn't even remotely going to help. I'd take NFL refs over MLB refs any day of the week, period. MLB umps are full time and are absolutely atrocious in a game that is far, far easier to officiate than the NFL.

 

[SB39]

I don't remember nearly as many issues before Polian and co. got the rules changed to favor his team and emphasize contact. Now it's a mess and the whole league is suffering.

You must not have watched any football prior to 10 years ago if you don't remember these issues. They were just as prevalent back before then as they are now - only difference is the shortened news cycle and over-coverage of every such play.

 

[SB39]

The league had changed the Pass Interference Rules at least twice prior to Polian getting the PI rules made a point of emphasis. But it wasn't just Polian. All the owners agreed to make PI a point of emphasis.

You guys talking about Polian don't even know what you're talking about. The rule "emphasis" that came from him was Illegal Contact, not Pass Interference. Those 5 yard penalties were very rare before his emphasis and are quite common now. If anything, his situation created fewer PI calls because we are seeing more Illegal Contact.

 

[DaBruinz]

I see this all the time and while it sounds nice, it just isn't even remotely going to help. I'd take NFL refs over MLB refs any day of the week, period. MLB umps are full time and are absolutely atrocious in a game that is far, far easier to officiate than the NFL.

That's the best you can come up with? Sorry, but you're flat out WRONG. MLB has done a LOT to change the umpires and, while there are still issues, it's not nearly like the NFL.

As for it being "easier to officiate" could you show me when in the NFL they have to dissect the path of a ball over an imaginary 3 dimensional shape the way that umpires have to do with balls and strikes? Furthermore, if you watch any of the games where they show the the pitch going through the strike zone, you'd see that the umpires are correct upwards of 95% of the time. So, you'll forgive me if I think you're claims are wrong.

 

[SB39]

That's the best you can come up with? Sorry, but you're flat out WRONG. MLB has done a LOT to change the umpires and, while there are still issues, it's not nearly like the NFL.

As for it being "easier to officiate" could you show me when in the NFL they have to dissect the path of a ball over an imaginary 3 dimensional shape the way that umpires have to do with balls and strikes? Furthermore, if you watch any of the games where they show the the pitch going through the strike zone, you'd see that the umpires are correct upwards of 95% of the time. So, you'll forgive me if I think you're claims are wrong.

Actually, I agree the strike zone is the one part I consider tough about their game. Of course, the ump gets to just sit there and literally make a call on something that takes place right in front of his face. But there are plenty of abysmal calls in baseball not even related to strike zones (which you generally don't even se argued all the much).

I'll take NFL officials over baseball any day of the week. They do far better work in a far tougher job. And don't even get me started on how laughable the NBA is. I didn't mention them because they are an embarrassment to their entire profession.

 

[DaBruinz]

Let's call a spade a spade here though. IIRC, Arrington tackled AB before the ball got there and it was intercepted due to the tackle in the game earlier this season. Now I know you guys feel shafted after two straight weeks of questionable calls, but it evens out. That play in particular stuck out because of the interception as a result.

I'm not saying we would've won the game or anything had there been a flag, but it goes both ways. This kind of stuff usually finds a way to even itself out over the course of a season.

Flat out, you don't recall correctly. First off, on the play in question (The McCourty Interception) Dennard is the one who was in coverage on Brown, not Arrington. Secondly, the pass was under-thrown. Third, if you watch the replay, Brown really isn't even trying to come back for the ball when he goes down. And he goes down from a combination of Dennard having tripped and fallen AND his losing his footing at the exact same time.

So, saying it all even out is just a bunch of BS on your part.

 

[DaBruinz]

You guys talking about Polian don't even know what you're talking about. The rule "emphasis" that came from him was Illegal Contact, not Pass Interference. Those 5 yard penalties were very rare before his emphasis and are quite common now. If anything, his situation created fewer PI calls because we are seeing more Illegal Contact.

Actually, we know what we're talking about. The "illegal contact" was part of the Pass Interference rules (which is what I said) and no, it's not "quite common" now. It was for a few years, but it's not nearly as much the last couple. (Could have something to do with Polian no longer being on the competition committee)

And to prove how it's not "quite common", you only have to check and see that it's been called only TWICE in the 11 games the Pats have played this season and it was only called twice in the other 14 games of week 11. The two times it was called in Pats games were when they played Tampa. It was also called in the Cincy Game and one other game during week 11. That's it. Illegal Block above the waist is a much more prevalent call.

 

[SteelersCanada]

Flat out, you don't recall correctly. First off, on the play in question (The McCourty Interception) Dennard is the one who was in coverage on Brown, not Arrington. Secondly, the pass was under-thrown. Third, if you watch the replay, Brown really isn't even trying to come back for the ball when he goes down. And he goes down from a combination of Dennard having tripped and fallen AND his losing his footing at the exact same time.

So, saying it all even out is just a bunch of BS on your part.

I'll take your word for it being Dennard and not Arrington. I just figured Arrington would've been shadowing Brown for the majority of the game. That part I was wrong on, you're right.

Pass Interference isn't about whether or not he's coming back to the ball or not, he was tackled while the ball was in the air and in the vicinity.

"The pass was under-thrown" - you can very easily make the case that the pass to Gronk against the Panthers was under-thrown as well, but it doesn't make it any more or less interference than the one against Brown. The ball wasn't tipped when Brown was interfered with either. This isn't coming off of memory anymore either, this is from watching the play happen. He didn't lose his footing, Dennard turns his head but grabs AB and drags him down. It was an under-thrown ball correct, but to say he wasn't trying to come back to the ball or it wasn't catchable is the same argument used against the Gronk play and Patriots fans were upset.

Again, let's call a spade a spade.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Also, you can't say "make it a 15 yard foul or spot foul, whichever is shorter" because then you'd have to change the holding rules as well. One of the reasons it was changed to a SPOT foul was because it was going on so often and the league wanted to cut down on it by making the penalty harsher.

You also fail to mention what happens when there is offensive pass interference.

I don't understand the first point. PI already is a spot foul. So if it occurs within 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, it's already shorter than a holding penalty. My proposal keeps everything exactly as it is, except that if the spot of the foul is more than 15 yards away from the LOS, you cap it at 15.

Offensive PI would be a non spot foul. I have no problem with the rules as currently written for non spot fouls, so 10 is fine. Seems about the same as offensive holding to me.