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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Zeus, Nov 14, 2012.

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  1. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    The 2012 Pats have a more complete offense than in 2011 but a defense that is a carbon copy of the 2011 D but with worse tacklers.
     
  3. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    This defense is better than last year's. It's way more talented, but it's also more inexperienced. It's still well below average, don't get me wrong, but last season we had guys like James Ihedigbo, Matthew Slater, Phillip Adams, Antwaun Molden, Sterling Moore, playing big parts in our secondary. We at least now have potential for growth, I really couldn't see how last season's group was capable of playing better than they were.
     
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    They are better, just don't know if it's better enough in the areas we needed help. We likely won't have as easy a road to the SB again so chances are we will need Talib, Dennard, Cole, Tavon/Gregory to be considerably better than Molden, Ihedigbo, Arrington, Moore. Talentwise they should be
     
  5. Big-T

    Big-T In the Starting Line-Up

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    #51 Jersey

    As bad as it still is, this years defense is actually a bit better than last year.

    If you go off the rankings alone in terms of yardage they are 6 places better and a whopping(!!!) 29 yards per game better off :p

    In the whole of last season they had: 23 picks and 10 forced fumbles
    So far this season: 10 picks and 17 forced fumbles

    40 sacks last year, 20 so far this year.

    So they are on course for more turnovers, less yards and 1.1 points per game more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  6. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    except that the statistical aberration this year is the yards given up week 1 and 2....if the current trend continues, this year's defense will be worse.
     
  7. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Worse tacklers? The Bills game was bad, but up to that point tackling was one of the things this defense actually did well.
     
  8. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Right on. It's amazing the horror we endured in the secondary and still made the SB. Goes to show how much attitude counts positively and negatively.

    A veteran combo of Carter, Anderson looks better at this point, but we do have better talent overall in the front seven and secondary. Steady progress for the young and some luck with injuries and there's no doubt we could be putting a better defense on the field come playoff time.

    Given our luck with secondary injuries over the years, I'll just have to cross my fingers on that one.
     
  9. dannydyn

    dannydyn PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    what game did you watch? It was miss-tackles galore...
     
  10. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    I think we tend to not give credit to opponents, especially those that can't put it all together. I think Spiller and Jackson would have made a lot of teams look like bad as tacklers. Of course Buffalo had to pass eventually, but those guys really opened things up. I wanted to hit my screen with a flyswatter watching Spiller, he was a speed demon.
     
  11. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think you mis-read what I said. Up to the Bills game, tackling was a solid aspect of this defense. The tackling in the Bills game was atrocious. My point is, you can't say "The Patriots are bad tacklers" based on one game, when the previous 8 you couldn't say that.
     
  12. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Ding, ding, ding...

    The Pats have such an inconsistent pass rush. It's due to over use; and because we have personnel pieces that don't exactly fit when you sub for situation. It's a tough problem to solve cause they are still missing a piece here, or there...

    In large part, the entire front 4 is over used. Too many reps for the same 4 guys. Bill Belichick used to sub his front 7 more than anyone. But now? Well, when the Pats switch to Nickel in '>7' yard passing situations; they should really try to give more reps to Scott and Beckett at DE. It'll help keep Chandler Jones from hitting that rookie wall, at the very least. He often looks slow coming out of his stance when the game goes on. Rest him up. Nink too.

    Love and Wilfork? Not only are they over used, but they are also mis used based on situation (again, in passing situations). It's largely out of necessity. We really lack situational rushers. Bill tried to address this w/ Fanene; oh well. Jermaine Cunningham is the only guy who gets Nickel DT reps. But, he's still paired up next to....Love or Wilfork. That concerns me. Guys like Wilfork (and Ty Warren) were often taken off the field entirely in obvious passing situations when the Pats D was still good. We'd bring in someone like Jarvis Green (or later Wright) and shift Seymour inside. That's what you need at DT against the pass. You really shouldn't keep your two-gappers out there. It's mis use. But who can you sub in aside from Jermaine? Eh, tough to say.

    Oh, I also think that Hightower should be getting more reps off the edge. You see it occasionally. He was a good pass rusher at Alabama. I remember one play against Tenn where he totally bull rushed a blocking TE and then took on a RB too. He nailed it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  13. jnug

    jnug On the Game Day Roster

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    Really good post 327. I also think BB believes opposing offenses are just waiting for the run stoppers to come off the field so they can run on the Pats sub packages. While you would expect an NFL back to be able to run some on a pass package, I think it would be truly ugly in the case of the Pats.

    However there are some game situations where I would still prefer to see guys come off instead of seeing the #'s of snaps some of the guys on D are taking. It should be pretty obvious that for whatever reason the Pats brain trust does not have much confidence in the sub packages up front. That is a whole part of this that we miss, including me. The coaches get to see these guys practice, get to see them play, are totally focused on what they are doing on the field. I would not bet that I know more about what the players are capable of doing than the Pats coaches.

    I saw a post suggesting that DT's should regularly be able to take 80 snaps a game. I don't know what you would expect from a DT in pass rush when his snaps get up there like that.
     
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Sorry, you are wrong. On paper they are better bu tthe uninjured players actually taking snaps are exactly the same players in the secondary, so how are they better or worse?

    Actually the pass rush is better. Seventh year player Ninkovitch, and 4th year DT/DE Cunningham, have found a niche, and are starting to come into their prime. Chandler Jones and the 34 year old FA, injured and now gone, from last year, are about a wash. The LB is improved, but rookie Donta Hightower has typical rookie issues.

    You must play the cards you are dealt, Not what you wish they were...
     
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