Paper Says Mawae has Visited Foxboro

[pats1]

It's amazing what the Denver loss did to so many minds.

I find it hard to understand why people piss and moan about Willie and Adam, yet insist on undervaluing what we have and attacking the "needs" with the biggest market names.

Before 2005, winning had everyone loving how these ignored and cost-effective players were able to build a championship caliber team. Now, after 2005, everything needs to be upgraded with recognized, high caliber free agents to give the team a "champion's upgrade."

After Denver, most everyone immediately saw the offensive line as a weakness, and insisted on getting Walter Jones, Will Shields, Kevin Mawae, and Jon Runyan, just to name a few. Ignored in all of that is the fact that this 2005 team had, yes, a plethora of IRed players, but also many smaller, nagging injuries which flew under the radar (Dillon and Brady exempt). Now, all the sudden, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal, and Tom Ashworth don't cut it, even after they did "cut it" in years before. "Our running game was crap and Brady got clobbered. We need to get some road-graders on our offensive line. Go out there and buy a high-profile free agent to fit the bill," was the most common suggestion.

One 7-loss season, and fans come crawling out of their holes, questioning the tactics of BB and SP, and falling into the trap that many teams have - super-sizing one position group which apparently failed them in the previous year.

The Patriots team, as it stands now, will be championship caliber with a simple move here and there, most notably at WR, K, and OLB. There is absolutely no reason for the Pats to go into all-out panic mode, as some fans here have, and draft starters just to put a respectable team on the field. The Patriots know their roster in 2006 improved as soon as the I.R. players returned and other players healed up. Pursuing these big name free agents is a trap that many teams have fallen into just to improve their team. They've scrapped what got them so close to a title, or in some cases to one, and taken the "Yankees" approach.

 

[Hoodie]

I heard that too. Finally someone else's defensive lineman can have their legs broken.

Yup. I was thinking the same think. Having Mawae on the Pats would be a good thing for Richard Seymour's knees.

 

[Pats726]

After Denver, most everyone immediately saw the offensive line as a weakness, and insisted on getting Walter Jones, Will Shields, Kevin Mawae, and Jon Runyan, just to name a few. Ignored in all of that is the fact that this 2005 team had, yes, a plethora of IRed players, but also many smaller, nagging injuries which flew under the radar (Dillon and Brady exempt). Now, all the sudden, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal, and Tom Ashworth don't cut, even after they did "cut it" in years before. "Our running game was crap and Brady got clobbered. We need to get some road-graders on our offensive line. Go out there and buy a high-profile free agent to fit the bill," was the most common suggestion.
One 7-loss season, and fans come crawling out of their holes, questioning the tactics of BB and SP, and falling into the trap that many teams have - super-sizing one position group which apparently failed them in the previous year.

I agree..but if Mawae can be gotten on the cheap won't that help
the line a great deal?? I see him as someone like Rodney who will come in and strengthen and toughen the line. I do NOT see the OL as needing a large do-over. There were injuries..but Light, Mankins, Koppen and Kaczur ais a solin nucleus. Add in Gorin and Hochstein..and if Neal can be resigned, that is a big plus as well!! There are also many young players which may be pulled into the mix as well. Mawae may be just what this line needs...

 

[primetime]

It's amazing what the Denver loss did to so many minds.

The line has been mediocre for some time. Between Dillon's injuries and the line not showing up last year, we could never get an effective running game going. Brady got killed because of line troubles (of course, injuries to Light didn't help). It's a good thing he gets rid of the ball so fast or he could've gotten sacked more than David Carr.

 

[holyredeemer]

It's amazing what the Denver loss did to so many minds.

I find it hard to understand why people piss and moan about Willie and Adam, yet insist on undervaluing what we have and attacking the "needs" with the biggest market names.

Before 2005, winning had everyone loving how these ignored and cost-effective players were able to build a championship caliber team. Now, after 2005, everything needs to be upgraded with recognized, high caliber free agents to give the team a "champion's upgrade."

After Denver, most everyone immediately saw the offensive line as a weakness, and insisted on getting Walter Jones, Will Shields, Kevin Mawae, and Jon Runyan, just to name a few. Ignored in all of that is the fact that this 2005 team had, yes, a plethora of IRed players, but also many smaller, nagging injuries which flew under the radar (Dillon and Brady exempt). Now, all the sudden, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal, and Tom Ashworth don't cut, even after they did "cut it" in years before. "Our running game was crap and Brady got clobbered. We need to get some road-graders on our offensive line. Go out there and buy a high-profile free agent to fit the bill," was the most common suggestion.

One 7-loss season, and fans come crawling out of their holes, questioning the tactics of BB and SP, and falling into the trap that many teams have - super-sizing one position group which apparently failed them in the previous year.

The Patriots team, as it stands now, will be championship caliber with a simple move here and there, most notably at WR, K, and OLB. There is absolutely no reason for the Pats to go into all-out panic mode, as some fans here have, and draft starters just to put a respectable team on the field. The Patriots know their roster in 2006 improved as soon as the I.R. players returned and other players healed up. Pursuing these big name free agents is a trap that many teams have fallen into just to improve their team. They've scrapped what got them so close to a title, or in some cases to one, and taken the "Yankees" approach.

WTF are you talking about? People are saying "bring in Mawae if it's in the cheap" NOT "Let's sign Bentley" who happens to be the biggest name out there.
You need to take a fu**ing chill pill and not get all self rightous on your patriotness to everyone here because they want to bring in a hard nosed, tough veteran to our line. Did he run over your dog or something? Damn, you just hate MAWAE.
I think YOU overvalue our offensive line. Everyone should be able to admit that it's never been the best, always a patchwork of guys up there tryin' to get the job done. Tom has always gotten beaten around back there. Not just last yr. but yrs. before as well. Our OL is young and inexperienced, and Mawae, even if he doesn't start would bring some hard ass leadership to our otherwise unemotional group of a line. Hell, Mankins is the only guy I have seen go out there and show some fire.
If you seen otherwise to anything i've just stated, then please....WAKE UP!
Also, you're talking about everyone not having faith in BB and SP? There the ones who brought his ass in for a visit, so THEY must see something. :rocker:

 

[smg93]

Brady got killed because of line troubles (of course, injuries to Light didn't help). It's a good thing he gets rid of the ball so fast or he could've gotten sacked more than David Carr.

Honestly, if Bledsoe was our QB last year, there would have been a lot more calls to improve the O line this year. Our line looked at lot more decent last year than it really was because TB makes such quick decisions.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's amazing what the Denver loss did to so many minds.

I find it hard to understand why people piss and moan about Willie and Adam, yet insist on undervaluing what we have and attacking the "needs" with the biggest market names.

Before 2005, winning had everyone loving how these ignored and cost-effective players were able to build a championship caliber team. Now, after 2005, everything needs to be upgraded with recognized, high caliber free agents to give the team a "champion's upgrade."

After Denver, most everyone immediately saw the offensive line as a weakness, and insisted on getting Walter Jones, Will Shields, Kevin Mawae, and Jon Runyan, just to name a few. Ignored in all of that is the fact that this 2005 team had, yes, a plethora of IRed players, but also many smaller, nagging injuries which flew under the radar (Dillon and Brady exempt). Now, all the sudden, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal, and Tom Ashworth don't cut, even after they did "cut it" in years before. "Our running game was crap and Brady got clobbered. We need to get some road-graders on our offensive line. Go out there and buy a high-profile free agent to fit the bill," was the most common suggestion.

One 7-loss season, and fans come crawling out of their holes, questioning the tactics of BB and SP, and falling into the trap that many teams have - super-sizing one position group which apparently failed them in the previous year.

The Patriots team, as it stands now, will be championship caliber with a simple move here and there, most notably at WR, K, and OLB. There is absolutely no reason for the Pats to go into all-out panic mode, as some fans here have, and draft starters just to put a respectable team on the field. The Patriots know their roster in 2006 improved as soon as the I.R. players returned and other players healed up. Pursuing these big name free agents is a trap that many teams have fallen into just to improve their team. They've scrapped what got them so close to a title, or in some cases to one, and taken the "Yankees" approach.

Pats1 - Normally you are one of the best posters, however you are way off on this. In fact, your exaggerations are making you look foolish.

1) The Pats O-line was a weakness last year. Mainly because of the injuries to Light and Koppen.

2) Neal is not guaranteed to be coming back. Neither is Ashworth. That takes 2 expereinced vets out of the mix.

3) Kaczur is better at RT than Brandon Gorin could ever dream of being. And, in my opinion, Kaczur is better than Light at LT.

4) Mawae wasn't the biggest name out there at C. That was Bentley. Mawae would be a good replacement to have and could play guard for the Pats as a replacement for Neal.

5) People mention Runyon, not as a replacement for Light, but as a replacement for Gorin. A guy who made Grant "Turnstile" Willams look like an All-Pro.

People are talking about UPGRADING the Pats O-line, even if only for a year or two. How can you disagree that Mawae wouldn't be an upgrade over Neal? How can you disagree that Runyon wouldn't be an upgrade over Gorin?

Now, do those things go with or against how the Pats have managed the O-line? They go against. Its why I could see the Pats taking a guy like Daryn Colledge and then a center like Nick Mangold or Eslinger in the draft. But the question needs to be what would help the team MORE? Personally, doing both. Bringing in a Mawae and Drafting a Colledge and Mangold.

One thing to remember is that the Pats need to have 4 OTs on the team. They've needed at least 4 ever year since BB came here. And we don't know where Britt fits into everything. He may only be a RT candidate or he may be a swing tackle candidate. What we do know is that the battle on the O-line for the tackle positions and the RG slot is going to be fierce in TC.

 

[hodgey]

WTF are you talking about? People are saying "bring in Mawae if it's in the cheap" NOT "Let's sign Bentley" who happens to be the biggest name out there.
You need to take a fu**ing chill pill and not get all self rightous on your patriotness to everyone here because they want to bring in a hard nosed, tough veteran to our line. Did he run over your dog or something? Damn, you just hate MAWAE.
I think YOU overvalue our offensive line. Everyone should be able to admit that it's never been the best, always a patchwork of guys up there tryin' to get the job done. Tom has always gotten beaten around back there. Not just last yr. but yrs. before as well. Our OL is young and inexperienced, and Mawae, even if he doesn't start would bring some hard ass leadership to our otherwise unemotional group of a line. Hell, Mankins is the only guy I have seen go out there and show some fire.
If you seen otherwise to anything i've just stated, then please....WAKE UP!
Also, you're talking about everyone not having faith in BB and SP? There the ones who brought his ass in for a visit, so THEY must see something. :rocker:

This is exactly the way I see it as well. I think it would be idiotic not to admit the Oline was a glaring weakness on the 2005 team. whether it was talent or injuries does'nt matter. Gorin is barely an adequate backup. Koppen, coming off injury, will be UFA 1n 2007, Ashworth will likely receive a better offer. It amazes me people think we can continue to plug these holes with rookies and no names. Now I am not for signing Olinemen for top contracts, but the oppotunity to add a high caliber veteran for 2-3 years at a reasonable contract would be highly desirable. Not to mention the leadership in helping develop our younger players.

 

[shirtsleeve]

You mean having $1.5 mil. dollars riding the bench that could be used to shore up the desolate WR position?

Again, I don't get this "let's replace our up-and-coming young talent with 35-year old veterans who people are overvaluing just because of their names."

Why don't we bring in Joe Montana as our QB while we're at it!

Koppen moves to guard. He would start there and back up Mawae at center. Then we could draft a good Rookie to evolve for next year when we probably would lose at least one of them.
Nahhh, we dont need Montana...we got Flutie!

 

[shakadave]

1) Before Koppen got injured, he was rated the #21 by Sporting News. Mawae was rated #5.

2) What if Koppen's injury is career-changing? Our coaches may be acting on some non-public information here.

 

[pats1]

Pats1 - Normally you are one of the best posters, however you are way off on this. In fact, your exaggerations are making you look foolish.

1) The Pats O-line was a weakness last year. Mainly because of the injuries to Light and Koppen.

2) Neal is not guaranteed to be coming back. Neither is Ashworth. That takes 2 expereinced vets out of the mix.

3) Kaczur is better at RT than Brandon Gorin could ever dream of being. And, in my opinion, Kaczur is better than Light at LT.

4) Mawae wasn't the biggest name out there at C. That was Bentley. Mawae would be a good replacement to have and could play guard for the Pats as a replacement for Neal.

5) People mention Runyon, not as a replacement for Light, but as a replacement for Gorin. A guy who made Grant "Turnstile" Willams look like an All-Pro.

People are talking about UPGRADING the Pats O-line, even if only for a year or two. How can you disagree that Mawae wouldn't be an upgrade over Neal? How can you disagree that Runyon wouldn't be an upgrade over Gorin?

Now, do those things go with or against how the Pats have managed the O-line? They go against. Its why I could see the Pats taking a guy like Daryn Colledge and then a center like Nick Mangold or Eslinger in the draft. But the question needs to be what would help the team MORE? Personally, doing both. Bringing in a Mawae and Drafting a Colledge and Mangold.

One thing to remember is that the Pats need to have 4 OTs on the team. They've needed at least 4 ever year since BB came here. And we don't know where Britt fits into everything. He may only be a RT candidate or he may be a swing tackle candidate. What we do know is that the battle on the O-line for the tackle positions and the RG slot is going to be fierce in TC.

Yes! Exactly! What you just said I don't disagree with at all - it's been what I've been trying to say all along.

What I've been frustrated is those who say "let's move Light, or Koppen, or Mankins, or Kaczur to a different position" after they've already been at one position for 1-4 years, in favor of a veteran who will be gone in a year or two and is only roadblocking other players' developments.

People are correct in saying the OL was a weakness. That was blatantly obvious. But we're talking about mainly the same personnel as 2003 and 2004 (Mankins for Andruzzi being the only real switch). It was the injuries. Last time I checked, these guys are going to be healthy and ready for 2006. The replacements (Gorin, Hochstein, Ashworth) will be moved back as backups to create fairly solid yet relatively inexpensive depth. I also like what I see from Murczkowski, and we'll have to see how Britt and Krug shape up.

I see no need to go out and disrupt the natural progression of Light, Mankins, Kaczur, and Koppen. Keeping that core intact in their same positions (just swinging Kaczur over in camp) is the key. Bring back Neal, and let Dillon, Faulk, Pass, and Evans heal, and we're right back to 2004. No need to any dramatic changes. When the Patriots drafted Light, Koppen, Mankins, and Kaczur, I doubt they envisioned starting them for a few years, then starting a veteran in favor, and then strating them again. (or switching positions just for a veteran who is on the opposite side of natural player progression).

With Runyan, he'd be taking either Light, who many idolized as one of the better tackles in the league as a 2nd-3rd year player, or Kaczur, who was in my view the best Pats offensive lineman in 2005. It just throws everything for a loop. If you get Runyan, move Kaczur to RG, and draft a RT, yes, that would probably work, but Kaczur's performance at tackle seems just too good to trash and start over at guard.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is we need to see how this young, talented OL will hold up before making drastic changes to it. The entire team was beat up and mentally exhausted come the end of the season. As I see it, the less changes made, the better. Team chemistry took some hits after the coaching shakeups, the retirement of Ted Johnson, Bruschi's stroke, Phifer, Andruzzi, and Patten leaving in free agency, and then the injuries to Rodney, Poole, Starks, both Scotts, Seymour, Light, Koppen, Dillon, Brady, Givens, Faulk, etc.

Honestly, I think some fans get too excited with free agency. Every player is hyped up just to get their money. People see these big-name players out there, and drool for their teams to go out and get them. For the Pats, minor tweaks here and there will bring another championship. With healed players, and a softer schedule, the re-signing of Givens, Vinatieri, McGinest, and other smaller pieces (Davis, Brown, Evans, etc.) will round out the roster. Only minor acquisitions will be made. No need to go Omar Minaya crazy and think signing the Beltran's and Delgado's of the world is the only key to success.

"But Mommy, I need this new doll house! It has a pool, and a jungle, and beach house. My old one only has a baseball field! It's only $100 more!!!"

 

[primetime]

Someone's going to get hurt. They're 300 lb. men blocking other 300 lb. men. I'd say it'd be hard to find a sizable stretch of games over the past few years where the day 1 starting offensive line has played as an intact unit in the same positions.

 

[holyredeemer]

Hey, screw Mawae. I think we should go out and get Montana. Have you seen that guys moves on the fed ex commercial? Damn, he's still got some wicked tricks.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Chicken Little and Ducky Wucky...

You guys are all wet!! Last year Bill and Scott added two first day players to an O-line that had won three Superbowls in four years.

Yeah, they suck allright. Suuuure!!!

The rookies had predictable growing pains and both starting tackles and the starting C ened up on IR. So the line struggled. The RBs were banged up all season too.

That was LAST YEAR.

The rooks aren't rooks any more and the wounded are back and you guys want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is no need to panic.

The O-line is stronger that in three Super bowl runs right now, and adding an end of the line pro for a year or two for additional depth is only a minor change. Meanwhile you Chicken Littles want to scrap everthing; demand we draft a Guard(?!?!??) on either the first or second round; or get into a bidding wear for a probowl center.

Y'all are the ones smoking the crack, not Bill and Scott, IMHO.

 

[patsox23]

The Patriots OL had a rough time last season, due in large part to injuries. But someone on here said the Pats OL has been bad for the past 3 years and that's just demonstrably untrue and insane.

Thoughts?

 

[pats1]

You guys are all wet!! Last year Bill and Scott added two first day players to an O-line that had won three Superbowls in four years.

Yeah, they suck allright. Suuuure!!!

The rookies had predictable growing pains and both starting tackles and the starting C ened up on IR. So the line struggled. The RBs were banged up all season too.

That was LAST YEAR.

The rooks aren't rooks any more and the wounded are back and you guys want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is no need to panic.

The O-line is stronger that in three Super bowl runs right now, and adding an end of the line pro for a year or two for additional depth is only a minor change. Meanwhile you Chicken Littles want to scrap everthing; demand we draft a Guard(?!?!??) on either the first or second round; or get into a bidding wear for a probowl center.

Y'all are the ones smoking the crack, not Bill and Scott, IMHO.

Woohoo! At least someone supports my cause!

 

[dhamz]

I honestly can't think of a single reason that I wouldn't sign Mawae to a short contract for low $, low bonus, and incentives.

I can't think of a single reason I wouldn't do the same for a guy like Runyon.

You simply can never have enough quality guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

I would not give either big $ deals at this point in their careers.

 

[holyredeemer]

The Pats offensive line has been overrated the past 3 yrs. They havent' been great, nor bad. Just good enough. The fact that Brady gets rid of the ball so quick and moves around the pocket as well as he does makes them look better then they are. I personally am getting sick of all those people out there who were saying last yr. was a fluke for the offensive line. It wasn't. Those rookies did great and at times played better then the guys they filled in for IMO. I know the O-Line is going to be getting better, but back to the topic of the thread. Signing Mawae would not hurt at all. It wouldn't sacrifice the development of any of the young guys at all. He would provide leadership and bring in a nasty attitude to that line. Yr. in and yr. out Brady is forced to quickly get rid of the ball and move around way more than he should to avoid sacks. Let's not annoint these young guys as the next COLTS OL. And, let's stop blaming it on injuries. The same thing is going to happen this yr. someone is going to get hurt and with Mawae we will have added depth in case that happens. NOBODY is freaking out because of the fu**ing Broncs game. It's just the truth and the way it is. Hell, we are probably going to lose ashworth and neal. So don't give me that rosey glass crap that things won't be the same next yr. Cause they won't be and this team needs to be ready. Whether it be by signing Mawae or Runyan or someone else...I honestly don't care. We just need to get a little more nasty. That's all.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Agree aith AZpats. If we do sign Kevin M it should be at the vet min or just slightly above.

Dan Koppen is considered as on of the best young centers in the NFL. Providing his injury has healed, he is our starting center. Kevin would be a gaurd. He is not a good shotgun center and has admitted that he doesn't like playing a shotgun. Brady spends more time in the shotgun than the Jest Qb's ever did.

 

[minxi501]

Why does everyone think Kevin Mawae is going to sign for the veteran minimum. Yeah he was injured last year, and is getting older, but let's not forget he's been to multiple pro bowls, and has had few injury problems before last year. I find it hard to believe he's gonna go to the Pat's for $700k a year, when another team will most likely offer him double or triple that type of salary.