Panthers will listen to trade offers for Jonathan Stewart

[Brady_to_Moss]

Too much $$

 

[ausbacker]

Compare what a 2nd round draft pick makes to what Stewart will command for salary. The cap matters, and therefore it's not a 1-to-1 comparison.

In order to field a team that has the talent and depth to win Super Bowls, you pretty much have to get a lot of production out of guys who are playing on rookie contracts. The Jets' failure to understand that is why don't have the depth to remain competitive, and the Patriots' understanding of that is a large part of why they're okay with drafting a lot of players, even if they miss on (and subsequently cut) a fair share of them. As long as you have a good share of Gronks, Hernandez's, McCourtys, Chungs, Spikes, BJGEs, Ridleys, Mayos, etc. (from last year), you're in a pretty good position. When you start trading your high-round picks for guys who command $5-10M per in addition to the lost pick, your cap structure can fall apart pretty quickly.

Compare the production of a 2nd round pick to what Stewart has put up career wise. There is always an argument for and against.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Compare the production of a 2nd round pick to what Stewart has put up career wise. There is always an argument for and against.

Absolutely- I'm not necessarily saying that we shouldn't do it. I'm just pointing out that comparing Stewart's proven production vs. the uncertainty of a 2nd round pick doesn't tell the whole story. You're paying quite a premium for the proven commodity, and cap space is valuable. Is it worth the tradeoff? I don't think so, but only because I'd rather the Pats take another second round flyer on a RB, if it came to that. Do that enough times and one will hit eventually. For all we know, we might already have that guy on the roster in Ridley or Vereen. If the Pats disagreed and traded a second for Stewart, though, then I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd understand the reasoning and would be fine with it.

 

[ausbacker]

Absolutely- I'm not necessarily saying that we shouldn't do it. I'm just pointing out that comparing Stewart's proven production vs. the uncertainty of a 2nd round pick doesn't tell the whole story. You're paying quite a premium for the proven commodity, and cap space is valuable. Is it worth the tradeoff? I don't think so, but only because I'd rather the Pats take another second round flyer on a RB, if it came to that. Do that enough times and one will hit eventually. For all we know, we might already have that guy on the roster in Ridley or Vereen. If the Pats disagreed and traded a second for Stewart, though, then I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd understand the reasoning and would be fine with it.

A lot of that would depend on how the Patriots choose to use their running game and if they would be willing to accomodate a potentially elite running back. The thing which sticks out for me is Stewart in the passing game.

I doubt it will be consummated but we can dream.

 

[larryo]

What would Carolina want? If the Patriots could get him for a second I would love to see them do it. This guy would be a game changer in this offense.

A one year rental that will get this offense even better for a second? Would love to see them do this.

 

[brady199]

What would Carolina want? If the Patriots could get him for a second I would love to see them do it. This guy would be a game changer in this offense.

A one year rental that will get this offense even better for a second? Would love to see them do this.

I wouldn't trade a 2nd for a one year rental.

 

[Deus Irae]

Where are all the people who've screamed against drafting a RB high because you can find one anywhere? All of the sudden, they're nowhere to be found and people want to shell out 2nd rounders and big money for a running back.

 

[larryo]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd for a one year rental.

Game changing one year rental. Maybe the guy would go for it. Probably not going to get much action in Carolina. Maybe he says hell yeah coach I'll go to New England get it done. Offense would be insane with this guy. Even if it's for a year.

Then let someone else give him the crazy contract.

 

[larryo]

Where are all the people who've screamed against drafting a RB high because you can find one anywhere? All of the sudden, they're nowhere to be found and people want to standby shell out 2nd rounders and big money for a running back.

Can he refuse a trade?

 

[BradyBranch39]

MBush and BJGE aren't close to the same caliber RB that Stewart is. Stewart isn't a freak RB like AP or CJ, but he's one tier down. As much of a fan as I am in BJGE he's not close to that, neither is MBush.

Obviously. But he's not worth double.

Can he refuse a trade?

Once he signs the tender, no.

 

[ausbacker]

Where are all the people who've screamed against drafting a RB high because you can find one anywhere? All of the sudden, they're nowhere to be found and people want to shell out 2nd rounders and big money for a running back.

I'm more intrigued by the proposition that people want production yet aren't willing to part with picks or salary for it. I understand the overwhelming mentality behind cap management, but still.

 

[brady199]

Can he refuse a trade?

Probably can't stop a trade from going through, but he like anyone else can protest and threaten to sit out etc... not sure why he would, esp if it came with a new contract.

 

[strngplyr]

Where are all the people who've screamed against drafting a RB high because you can find one anywhere? All of the sudden, they're nowhere to be found and people want to shell out 2nd rounders and big money for a running back.

I honestly don't really have an opinion on Stewart either way, but it could be argued that people are against drafting a RB with a 2nd because they are unproven in the NFL while Stewart has shown what he can do where the competition is much better.

 

[larryo]

Probably can't stop a trade from going through, but he like anyone else can protest and threaten to sit out etc... not sure why he would, esp if it came with a new contract.

It wouldn't come with a new contract. Carolina obviously isn't giving him that money. Well how about you can go show case your skills on the biggest stage in the NFL? Just throwing it out there. The next Corey Dillion doesn't have to be on the back nine.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm more intrigued by the proposition that people want production yet aren't willing to part with picks or salary for it. I understand the overwhelming mentality behind cap management, but still.

The Patriots have gotten production out of Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Woodhead, Taylor (when healthy) and BJGE in recent years, and Ridley averaged over 5 yards per carry last season. While I don't mind making moves for production, I don't see more need at RB than I do at DT/DE/OLB/WR/intOL this year, so I don't personally get the willingness to give up a 2nd that could go towards one of those positions.

But my post wasn't about that. It really was about the silence of the "you can get a RB anytime/anywhere" crowd. I just find it interesting.

 

[ausbacker]

The Patriots have gotten production out of Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Woodhead, Taylor (when healthy) and BJGE in recent years, and Ridley averaged over 5 yards per carry last season. While I don't mind making moves for production, I don't see more need at RB than I do at DT/DE/OLB/WR/intOL this year, so I don't personally get the willingness to give up a 2nd that could go towards one of those positions.

But my post wasn't about that. It really was about the silence of the "you can get a RB anytime/anywhere" crowd. I just find it interesting.

I don't disagree with your position at all, I'm more intrigued given Stewart's potential in the offense. We're in agreement that RB isn't a high need position (assuming Ridley & Vereen improve in 2012).

As for your second point, I know you're not surprised by that.

 

[borg]

Come on patsfans......BB has accumulated hoards of picks for opportunities like this. The Pats have a decided advantage in draft picks....and they are allowed to splurge....aka ....getting the piece they want/need. They wanted Welker....a #2 wasn't enough....so they tossed in a low round kicker. Dillon....a #2 for a one year gig.
So now lets talk cost: I see the #62 pick as sufficient. What rookie is coming in as a 3 down starter from the #62 slot?
And for those that scream salary will be an expensive problem: 2012 Salary $1.3 mill. The Pats could franchise him in '13 ....the Franchise cost for RB this year is $7.7 mill=====Potential 2 year cost $9 mill ($4.5mill/yr).
This is more of a no brainer than I previously thought. BB will likely drop out of the 1st and gain a #2 anyways.....So owning Stewart for two years at $4.5 mill /yr using a late #2...likely their third #2.......come on.....this is a no brainer. A 3 down stud starting RB for $4.5 mill......that is cheap. BB paid Dillon $5mill/ yr after his epic 2004 season...and that was 8 years ago. Stewart would be cheaper than Dillon....8 years later. If BB really wants the guy.....MONEY WON"T BE THE ISSUE....Stewart is a 2 year bargain

Edit: I want to add this point....NO WAY BB ignores RB this offseason. He will not rely on two scat backs and Ridley, a RB he had no faith in during crunch time....Something is brewing. Maybe Sabban convinced BB his Bama back is the real deal....who knows....but the RB corps as it currently stands is insufficient. Is it possible McDaniels convinced BB his Denver blocking back deserves carries?

 

[TyronePoole]

BB acquires draft picks for draft day and overrall flexibility in case of emergency and because he clearly thinks the NFL collective has a distorted system of valuation, if you think he's been building them up to blow his wad you haven't been paying attention. We have RBs on the roster that we drafted fairly high last year, so I don't know how you can say he's "ignored" the position. We are the best passing offense in the league, upgrading the RB position isn't of great value as long as we are functional there and have depth.

 

[brady199]

Come on patsfans......BB has accumulated hoards of picks for opportunities like this. The Pats have a decided advantage in draft picks....and they are allowed to splurge....aka ....getting the piece they want/need. They wanted Welker....a #2 wasn't enough....so they tossed in a low round kicker. Dillon....a #2 for a one year gig.
So now lets talk cost: I see the #62 pick as sufficient. What rookie is coming in as a 3 down starter from the #62 slot?
And for those that scream salary will be an expensive problem: 2012 Salary $1.3 mill. The Pats could franchise him in '13 ....the Franchise cost for RB this year is $7.7 mill=====Potential 2 year cost $9 mill ($4.5mill/yr).
This is more of a no brainer than I previously thought. BB will likely drop out of the 1st and gain a #2 anyways.....So owning Stewart for two years at $4.5 mill /yr using a late #2...likely their third #2.......come on.....this is a no brainer. A 3 down stud starting RB for $4.5 mill......that is cheap. BB paid Dillon $5mill/ yr after his epic 2004 season...and that was 8 years ago. Stewart would be cheaper than Dillon....8 years later. If BB really wants the guy.....MONEY WON"T BE THE ISSUE....Stewart is a 2 year bargain

Edit: I want to add this point....NO WAY BB ignores RB this offseason. He will not rely on two scat backs and Ridley, a RB he had no faith in during crunch time....Something is brewing. Maybe Sabban convinced BB his Bama back is the real deal....who knows....but the RB corps as it currently stands is insufficient. Is it possible McDaniels convinced BB his Denver blocking back deserves carries?

Last years draft...
#62 Daniel Thomas
#71 DeMarco Muarry
#73 Stevan Ridley
#105 Roy Helu

2010 Draft...
#58 Ben Tate

2009 Draft...
#53 LeSean McCoy
#65 Sean Greene


So there are guys out there in that range that can be very good.

Also they could get by with Just Woodhead and Vereen if needed, they don't rely on the run and can adjust easily on the fly.

 

[brady199]

BB acquires draft picks for draft day and overrall flexibility in case of emergency and because he clearly thinks the NFL collective has a distorted system of valuation, if you think he's been building them up to blow his wad you haven't been paying attention. We have RBs on the roster that we drafted fairly high last year, so I don't know how you can say he's "ignored" the position. We are the best passing offense in the league, upgrading the RB position isn't of great value as long as we are functional there and have depth.

I agree with the 2nd half of your statement, but in the past he's given a 2nd for Welker, a 2nd for Dillion, a 4th for Moss, and also gave out picks for Ted Washington, Ocho, Haynesworth and many others over the years. So he builds them up cuz he sees value in doing so, but he's also willing to deal them for veterans if he sees value in that too.

Like BB always says with that classic boring monotone voice..."I'm just doing what I think is best for the team"