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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    "Level playing fields" sounds all nice & warm & fuzzy, but it isn't realistic. To have a level playing field, no one would grow up in poverty...as a matter of fact, everyone would grow up in similar environments. No parent would abuse their kids or get divorced...no parent would become an alcoholic or drug addict and all school systems would have the same quality from top to bottom.

    But none of the above will or can ever happen, so we all have to deal with the cards that are dealt to us and some hands are stacked while others don't even have a pair of dueces.

    Now we can work to make the field a little more level, but that's about the best we can do. Then we must consider costs and benefit to society. Should we invest more into education than our military? I think we can say that it should at least be MORE equal...there is no doubt about that.

    But some kids will always have to work harder than others. It may be a tough pill to swallow, but it's reality. Some will always have the "right connections" to succeed in life and there is nothing society can do about that.

    It really comes back to what our parents always told us...and that's "Life isn't fair, get used to it"
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Actually, what my parents told me, and what I've told my children is "Life isn't fair. If it bothers you, you need to go out there and do what you can to change it."

    Nobody has to "get used" to anything.

    Any parent that tells a child so is fostering blind acceptance and eventual defeat.
  3. PatriotsReign

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    Actually, we have to accept it because no matter what, life will be unfair. Whether it's bad health, poverty, drug addiction, cheating parents and spouses, abusive parents, ad infinitum.

    Gov't (the people) can't eliminate these things. People will always be born into less or more desireable circumstances. Just as some bugs will always eat other bugs...ok, that one may be a stretch...but you get my point.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Did you just change this entire post?

    I was all set to answer, hit "quote" and I swear this is totally different than what I read the first time.
  5. PatriotsReign

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    Yes, I did...sorry. But how the heck would I know you were sitting waiting to pounce on my post immediately MrsP?:(

    Now you have me scared....

    :scared:
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    You're scared??

    I was convinced that I'd lost my freekin mind.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No playing tag kids but it's ok to have sex on the school bus going home you can smoke a joint in the bathroom too but remember if you get caught playing tag you will be suspended.
  8. PatriotsReign

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    I'm not scared anymore, are you? If not, I'd like to read your response.
  9. DarrylS

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    Your incessant babble is tiring, do you have a source where kids got suspended for playing tag.. did Drudge tell you that lie.
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I forgot the question.

    You took it away, remember?
  11. PatriotsReign

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    Ok, here's where we were....


    You wrote

    to which I replied

    If you don't feel like replying, no big deal.
  12. PatriotsReign

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    I wish kids still played "You've got coodies!"...now that was a nice game for kids to play. Maybe coodies has been cured though, no sure.
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    In your original post you posed a direct question to me.....which I've now forgotten. There's not much to respond to in your changed post, PR. It's a rehash of previous posts.

    You feel that there are some things we have to accept. I feel that if we find any given situation unacceptable we do not have to accept it. The fact that we may be, ultimately, unable to change it is immaterial.

    If nothing else, we change ourselves by our attempt be it failed or successful.
  14. PatriotsReign

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    Fair enough.

    My philosophy/perspective is that our society will always have problems because humans have flaws. No matter how much effort we put into trying to correct them, they will remain because humans will always and forever be imperfect.

    On an individual level, I agree with your view. However, on a gov't level (spending), I do not. Gov't isn't responsible for fixing people.

    If we added up all the money we've spent over the past 60 years on social "problems" and then evaluated how much they've done to correct them, I think we'd be disappointed.

    Money doesn't fix problems in my opinion. Those with problems are ultimately the only ones who can change themselves. All the money in the world won't change anything without a willingness to put in the effort required to improve oneself.

    An old AA saying regarding the individual, "If nothing changes in me, nothing changes"
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    If corporations are people, too, then so is government.

    "I think," doesn't make it so.

    Let's see. My kidney's have failed. I need a kidney transplant. Without a transplant, not only can I not work, I will die. A transplant costs more money than I make and I do not have health insurance. If the government pays for my transplant, I will not only live, I will continue to be productive. What will fix my problem?

    Those with problems are ultimately the only ones who can change themselves. All the money in the world won't change anything without a willingness to put in the effort required to improve oneself.

    Um, that's what I've been saying all along. You're the one who's been insisting we have to accept things as they are.
  16. PatriotsReign

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    The problems we've been discussing are not physical ailments, but you used such an example.

    People can choose to donate their time to help fix some things, but for gov't to make such an attempt costs money.

    The quote I posted was about changing ourselves, it did not refer to changing the things around us.

    How can gov't fix abusive parents, drug & alcohol addiction, income inequality, lack of social connections that give some an advantage, emotional & psychological disorders, lack of motivation, single-parent households, learning disabilities among the many other situations that make life "unequal or unfair"?

    I'd love to know how such things can be fixed by gov't.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    That's exactly one of the examples you posted earlier.

    Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

    Don't you get it, PR? By changing ourselves we DO change the things around us. Even the smallest thing - smiling at someone rather than snarling at them - that simple act is going to change their day/world in some small way. 1 signature on a petition, followed by one more and more and one more - and the person who started the petition changed something. You quit drinking, you changed youself - do you not think that also changed your parent's lives? Your friends? Your employers?

    In a thousand different ways, PR, otherwise why have a government at all? What do you think distinguishes our government from that of China's or Pakistan's? Why do we have a longer life span than 3rd world countries? Why do countries with socialized medicine have a longer life span than ours?

    Do you honestly think that none of our social programs work? That WIC doesn't help kids grow? That the vaccine programs don't save hundreds of thousands of children from whooping cough, diptheria, measles, death? That some widowed mother of 3 small kids doesn't find that small stipend from the government the one thing between having a home and being homeless? That programs which teach handicapped individuals a skill doesn't change his life and the life of his parents?

    And I just told you how.
  18. PatriotsReign

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    The vast majority of our social programs are safety-nets, they don't fix the reasons why they're necessary.

    I am fine with having them, but what scares me is people who think these programs will eliminate these causals.

    And since we've had these programs, has the "playing field" become more or less even?

    My original point was that there will always be a lot of unfairness in America and there is no way to make the playing field equal.

    Short story...I grew up with a close friend whose dad was Speaker of the Ways & Means Committe in the MA house of representatives. That man did our family a lot of favors many never got. But he was small potatoes relative to the connections many of our powerful have.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Some things are not "fixable." Old age, disease, poverty, human cruelty....but the symptoms can be contained and treated. If we ignore the symptoms and do nothing then what happens? The victims suffer and we allow it? Encourage it, telling ourselves it is for their own good and they'll be stronger for it?

    I'd say more, you'd say less and neither of us would believe the other so I won't even bother going into details.

    But there are many ways to make it even less equal. Is that what you want?

    This has what bearing on anything?
  20. PatriotsReign

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    I agree that some things aren't fixable...that was kinda my point. I don't agree with a theory that states the more money we throw at a problem, the better things will be. I'm fine with most programs the wayt the are.


    Nope, I agree with you. Where we may differ is that I don't believe it's just because we have these these programs. I also believe a lot of the improvement is because people's attitudes change.

    Would racism have remained the same in America had we not passed various laws, amendments and incentives? I'd say no way. I guess the question is, how much is due to cultural evolution and how much is due to gov't intervention?


    No and I never wrote such a thought.


    I gave an example of how much having the right connections can help a family. Some people have them (the very wealthy certainly do) and some don't and that's just life.

    Because my family had this (small) connection, my family members got "put to the front of the line" few times and got "favor" summer jobs that others couldn't. Back then I never thought about fairness...I just thought, "This is cool!"

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