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OWS vs. The Tea Party

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Occupy Wall Street has been doing some good things lately. I thought I'd list a couple. Does anyone want to list some of the compassionate acts being organized by the Tea Party?

    Occupy Wall Street Launches 'Rolling Jubilee' To Buy Up And Forgive Debt | ThinkProgress

    OWS is going to start buying distressed debt (medical bills, student loans, etc.) in order to forgive it. As a test run, we spent $500, which bought $14,000 of distressed debt. We then ERASED THAT DEBT. (If you’re a debt broker, once you own someone’s debt you can do whatever you want with it — traditionally, you hound debtors to their grave trying to collect. We’re playing a different game. A MORE AWESOME GAME.)

    This is a simple, powerful way to help folks in need — to free them from heavy debt loads so they can focus on being productive, happy and healthy.

    Occupy Wall Street morphs into Occupy Sandy, offering relief - The Denver Post

    The social media savvy that helped Occupy Wall Street protesters create a grassroots global movement last year is proving to be a strength in the wake of Hurricane Sandy as members and organizers of the group fan out across New York to deliver aid such as hot meals, medicine and blankets.

    ...

    Now the group has dozens of relief centers across the city and a stream of volunteers who are shuttled out to the most desperate areas. It is partnering with local community and volunteer organizations.

    A recent post on Occupy Sandy's Facebook page said: "Attention! If anyone in Rockaway needs to have their basement pumped, please contact Suzanne Hamalak at suzybklyn@aol.com. Her family wants to help and have industrial pumps ... they will do it for free ..."
  2. PatsWSB47

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    Those efforts by the OWS should be commended, but what is your point, that liberals give more than conservatives?
  3. PatsFanInVa

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  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OWS is often seen as the left counterpart to the Tea Party movement, and comes under a lot of criticism in this forum from the right. Is the Tea Party anything more than part of the political establishment? It came about as response to politics and usual, but really that mantel seems to belong more to OWS, which has not yet been co-opted. But, I could be wrong. I really would like to know if the Tea Party activists have been there for natural disasters or other good works.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  5. Patsfanin Philly

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    I commend OWS for what they are doing. It is a good thing and from a PR point of view, it is brilliant......
    Hope somebody in the tea party is taking notes, though they would probably get less positive press even if they did the same exact thing.......
  6. Harry Boy

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    I think it's time for the Tea Baggers to just step back and then let The New Pop Culture Government destroy the country, let some of them kill each other off with their riots, let the economy hit rock bottom, let all of us old bastards die with their Omabacare Garbage, all the different races won't be able to talk to each other so the first thing they will do is start killing each other, the liberals can get Jessie Jackoff Jr out of jail and appoint him President (God Imagine That A Real All Black President, I'm getting an erection right now) Obama, Reverend Wright and Michelle can all go back to Hawaii and eat lobster roles and spare ribs, then when the time is right The Tea Baggers can rise, they can ask God to come back then they and God can step in and mop things up and start all over again.

    GOD WILLING THE SUN WILL SHINE AGAIN MOMS APPLE PIE, LAWRENCE WELK, GENE AUTRY, RONALD REAGAN, SANTA CLAUS AND JESUS CHRIST WILL RETURN, THE NEW WONDERFUL GENERATION SHALL BE UPON THE COUNTRY AND THE LORD WILL SAY "THIS IS GOOD"
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry, they just tried that, but the economy improved by most measures and the power of the democracy asserted itself with a huge backlash from minorities to Tea Party efforts they felt specifically targeted their interests. Basically, Harry, the Tea Party is a rural phenomenon of a handful of states (primarily Texas, Florida, and Louisiana), but already the Constitution gives rural states disproportionate power by assigning two Senators to each state. As Americans, we've come to accept this unfairness, but there are limits to what a bunch of backward bohunks who have no contact with reality can get away with (and let me me clear, I'm not referring to all rural folk, just those who live in irrational fear of Hispanics, Muslims, blacks, gays, and single women).
  8. Wolfpack

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    Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back (although it seems it may already be too late for that) let me clue you in to 3 things:

    1) How does buying the debt of people who are obviously too irresponsible to manage their own finances compose some sort of noble act of compassion? It's actually a moral hazard. But hey, if they want to waste their money then more power to 'em.

    2) What the heck kind of debt are these people buying when they can get $14,000 worth for $500??!? Mortgages? No way, Jose. Student loans? Doubtful. Medical bills? You can easily cry poverty to get medical bills lowered, but not quite by THAT much. That $500-for$14,000 is the kind of rate you get to pay off someone's credit card bills when they've amassed $50,000 in charges buying stuff on the Home Shopping Club.

    3) Debt forgiveness is 100% taxable income. Over the past 10 months, you liberals have railed on and on and on about how important it is to you that everyone pays the maximum amount of taxes required by law (and then pay even some more after that), so that guy who just had his $14,000 debt erased now owes Uncle Sam a couple thousand dollars (depending upon what tax bracket he is in). :singing: :singing:
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You make some good points. I have no idea what kind of debt is that cheap, but clearly it is debt that is quite old. Given the way that credit card companies were giving easy credit in the 1990s, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it is credit card debt, but one imagines that OWS will target specific kinds of debt now that they know they can do this.

    As far as responsibility goes, you are right, but at the same time one presumes that many responsible people find themselves in debt because of factors beyond their control. While there are some people who are just irresponsible, others experience unexpected illness or disasters of some sort from which they have no good way out. I doubt if OWS is bailing out the banks, who I suspect you agree should not have been bailed out, but certainly irresponsible investors were among the beneficiaries of that. So, sometimes people just get lucky, I guess.

    As far as taxable income, I didn't know about that. That said, owing $2000 is better than owing $14,000. My hope is that OWS focuses on forgiving small debts, the kind of debts that are likely to be held by the poorest members of society, but I don't know how the process works.
  10. Hamar

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    Cheap debt like that is usually owed to a company that is no more and the debt has been bought and sold more than once so is considered to be not collectable.

    No, owing 2,000 to the IRS is not better than owing 14,000 to some 3rd or 4th party collection. The IRS has WILL collect that money.

    P.S. I don't think the OWS is anything like the Tea Party. The OWS is more of a social movement and the Tea Party is much more politically focused.
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    It says on the site they cannot buy individual debts. They are buying debt on the market and canceling it. I'd be curious as to the mechanics of this as well; after all, if you have a mortgage backed security that's become a debt backed security, I suppose canceling that debt would all go indirectly to those who owed the debt. A cancelled debt is a cancelled debt.
  12. cupofjoe1962

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    Sounds to me like $500 and a half hours with Trixie twice a week, got Vinnie
    the weed dealer not to put the arm on the clowns he fronted 10 lbs.
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    And Huggy Bear tipped off Starsky and Hutch?
  14. cupofjoe1962

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    Forgive debt or just help them ketchup?
    Stephen Colbert Interviews Occupy Wall Street Protester, 'Ketchup' - New York - Restaurants and Dining - Fork in the Road
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    Icy, your jpg doesn't show up :(
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  16. E1Downey

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    Red vs. blue......Black vs. white....Rich vs. Poor.....OWS vs. Tea Party

    I'm ******* tired of it. How is no one else? Why should we buy into this ****? Because the talking box in our living rooms says so? No that's bull****. Please don't let them convince us that this 'divide' is really a natural divide.

    One side hates the regulating, big/centralized gov't. One side hates the cheating, greedy mega-corporations/financial institutions. So what do we do? We split into teams and fight...EACH OTHER!

    Must just be coincidence that both of the "bad guys" seem to gain more and more of what they want(wealth,power) while we get less and less of what we want.(wealth,liberty)

    Let's not consider that though. It's so much more fun trying to convince ourselves that we are both intellectually and morally superior to those "racist republicans" or "limousine liberals".


    I've been told big business is against big government. Big Gov't wants to protect us from Big Business.

    It's bull. They've been in bed together for a very long time now, it's just that we are the ones getting ****ed...
  17. Nikolai

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    #54 Jersey
    [​IMG]
  18. PatriotsReign

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    OWS vs. Tea Party....

    You gotta be frikkn kiddn...

    Can we all grow up and stop adding to the fuel that divides our nation?

    We're all Americans...liberals are here to stay and conservatives are here to stay....deal with it.
  19. Chevy

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    The Tea Party is a loose organization at best. It represents those American traditions and ideals that formed this country and made it what it is - hard work, self reliance, the determination to improve one's self.

    The people who identify with the Tea Party generally are working class folks who pay their bills and ask little if anything from others - let a lone the government. Ever notice that the Tea Party "events" are one day affairs, mainly on Saturdays? That's because they have jobs and families and responsibilities that need to come first. That means going to work.

    The big question I have - why should this debt be forgiven?
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    When was the last "tea party event" of any size?

    In any event, teabaggers also skew older. I don't think you could put together a tent city of blue-haired teabaggers who toughed it out in all weather. Their rhumatiz would act up.

    Young people are different -- particularly a young population on the butt end of the system in place before they were born, who have unemployment of 10% plus (and I'm sure it's 30% plus when you start in with all the random assignation of horrible underemployment, leaving the workforce, blah blah blah, by which the pubbies like to shift the measure to declare every day the worst one EVAH.) A lot of them, as you know, have nothing but time.

    PFnV
  21. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    What did OWS accomplish?

    They cost the tax payers millions in security & cleanup costs & accomplished
    nothing.

    Is this mess something you would want on your resume?

    Attached Files:

    • ows.jpg
      ows.jpg
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  22. PatsFanInVa

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    They changed the conversation in this country from the pointless wailing about debt (face it, austerity doesn't work; and in any event, the majority of how you get out of debt will be to either increase taxes or decrease the economic security of the majority of the nation.) They changed the focus to the unconscionably unequal outcomes of the system. You know, what the right wing calls "class warfare." People started thinking where all the money is. This is actually a good thing.

    The right can only dismiss it with some sniffy faux-upper-class dismissive comment about envy, which is bullcrap. The funny part is that the sniffy comment is always coming from some guy who thinks now that he's making 40 grand a year he's the bomb... but there's some guy making 20 grand trying to take it all from him. :rolleyes:

    OWS pretty much killed the teabagger vibe like grunge killed the hair bands c. 1990. Their polling number continued to tank throughout the OWS movement, as people started realizing that no, they're not scum because they're unemployed -- particularly since the financial sector, not the working people or that bogeyman, the unions, tanked the economy. People realized our present state is not the finest, fairest system we could imagine.

    And when Mittens started talking about how 47% of people are "victims," that deft use of percentages reminded them of something they'd heard before... they are the 99%. Lots were also the 47%, and even more understood they could be quite easily.

    That's not the America most of us want... and OWS did its share of spreading that message.

    Meanwhile, the teabaggers managed primarily to detract from the belief of the world that we'll pay what we owe, with their repeated "I'd as soon default as look at you" bullcrap. They're the downgrade fans, the default fans, the something-for-nothing crowd.

    They've also been rejected by the nation.

    PFnV
  23. Hamar

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    "They changed the conversation in this country" I hear this over and over and over. What did they change it to? The politicians they say they support (like Obama) are against what they are preaching.

    Sure, we now talk about them pooping on police cars, I guess that is something. But, what real change have they made?

    They rally against the 1% all the while being supported monetarily by the 1%, what a conversation that is ;)
  24. Wolfpack

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    This statement is absolutely true. For example, here are some examples of typical conversations before and after OWS:

    Before OWS: "Good morning, Bob. Did you see the game last night?"
    After OWS: "Good morning, Bob. Did you see what those filthy, disgusting *******s are doing in the park now?"
  25. cupofjoe1962

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    I am sorry to tell you this but......

    Nobody is talking about OWS, since they got kicked out of the park
    .

    Who is their leader?

    Is it this prize princess who abandoned her children to hook up with the flea
    people?

    http://www.owsexposed.com/2012/10/m...upy-camp-in-new-york-divorces-banker-husband/

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  26. IllegalContact

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    this would be interesting if it were accurate, but its not the top 1% whose percentage of wealth has grown. It's the next 19% who has grown. The top 1% wealth has actually shrank through the Bush years.

    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

  27. PatsWSB47

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    That's a little bit of an exaggeration, no?
  28. PatsFanInVa

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    47, I think their safe districts like them well enough, as a pure la-la-land version of Conservative -- you know, with 9 9 9 plans, birth certificate silliness, inability to maintain even the lowest bar of civility ("you lie!"), etc. There are some pockets where people will keep shouting "yee haw" no matter what comes out of their addled pates.

    But in terms of general support? Nah it's in the tank.

    Survey

    As to OWS changing the conversation, if you're not in your echo chamber, you'll notice nobody's talking about pooping in police cars. What they are talking about is deciles and quintiles of wealth and income distribution, as IC shows above, when he cleverly points out that the 1% didn't make out as well as the top 20% of late.

    This kind of thinking wasn't even on the table in 2010. I don't think it's the dominant mode of analysis in American politics these days, but it's among them.

    Remember, eating and regurgitating your own hermetically sealed vomit bag is what lost you the 2012 elections, righties. Get out of the bubble.

    PFnV
  29. cupofjoe1962

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    2012, was not a good year from the right.
    They did hold the house, which gives them some say moving forward.
    I have yet to hear from an OWS candidate. You may not like the tea party, but they do have people who are actually running for office. You can't change the rules from a tent in a park.

    Although I am not sure if he calls himself a teaparty member, but I do know
    that Chris Christie is a Tea party favorite.

    I am not sure if he will run in 2016, but I am saving room on my lawn for a
    Christie sign.

    Please let me know when a OWN member "not called Ketchup", steps out
    of the tent and becomes leader.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  30. cupofjoe1962

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    I had no idea.... Some of the OWS leaders are actually in the news.

    One of the Occupy Wall Street protest leaders quits his jobs - NYPOST.com

    Cornel West Arrest Leads to Questions About OWS Leadership

    Sounds like Cornel West is a racist..... doesn't it?


    Golden tents for some Occupiers - NYPOST.com

    Occupy Wall Street protesters stay at $700-a-night hotel


    Hell no, we won’t go — unless we get goose down pillows.

    I guess he is not one of the tough tent people.

    Sure sounds shady.......

    They had $500,000 & they spent $500 on buying up bad debt.
    I am sure they had a lot of fun with the other $499,500.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012

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