Outside linebacker

[DaBruinz]

Jason Taylor is going ro be 35 when the season begins. Why would we bring him in and try to convert him to LB at the end of his career when we already had Vrabel who was 34 and already knows our system?

First off, Taylor has played OLB in the 3-4. There is no conversion necessary. Secondly, Taylor still looked good after he recovered from his injury last season.

Third, Vrabel probably cost more than Taylor will be to sign.

 

[DaBruinz]

They tried Guyton at OLB last year for a few series. Then Colvin was suddenly "ready to go".

And you don't think that it had anything to do with the standing rule that BB has about having to practice all week to start?

Or the fact that Guyton was a rookie and going up against Walter Jones. Only one of the best LTs in the league?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Taylor played "cobra" in Miami...stood up at the line and rushed from both sides

Cobra Kai?? Sweep the leg Johnny! Sweep the leg!!

 

[patman52]

I don't think that Belichick thinks the need is anywhere as great as many here do. I certainly agree that we would be much stronger with Taylor or Peppers. I certainly would like to see Taylor play for us. Peppers would just cost too much. But in the end, I'd rather use much of our precious cap money to extend Wilfork, Mankins and Gostkowski. If we are to sign a high-profile player, I'd prefer Holt.

Personally, for 2009, I think that Belichick is comfortable with his three man rotations at OLB and ILB, with Crable as a developmental player, and even Redd as possibility for the future rotation. Given the players available in the draft, I expect to see us draft one or even two front seven defensive players early. These player might look great in 2009, or they might take a year to develop. We COULD move up and draft a stud if Belichick sees the player he wants. For example, he might want Matthews badly.

I think, BB will give Taylor a playbook, some film and have a couple of Go to meetings and let min come in when two a days are over and sign him just to rush the qb 12-15 times a game. Taylor will not sign anywhere IMO until training camp has started. He doesn't want to put up with the regimen at his age similar to Seau.

 

[mesoslo]

Iam hoping that Maybin falls out of the top 10. Some scouts say Maybin has a good pass rush wide from the outside (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1117617) and he is a top ten performer in the 20 yard shuttle with a time of 4.38 only solidies his ability to rush wide. This ability to be an outside blitz should open up gaps in the OL for Mayo, Wilfork, and seymour.

Maybin's ability to blitz wide should come in handy to cover wide to the sidelines on outside runs and QB check down throws to the sideline.

 

[WhiZa]

Here's the list of OLB. Some decent depth, but I cannot find 2 starters I would like to see week 1.

Thomas
Woods
TBC
Crable
Redd
Craig

The difficulty of bringing in someone like Taylor (older) or Peppers (never played OLB) is there are question marks just like the other depth currently on the team. If the Pats bring a OLB in that player should clearly be better then the current talent and be confident they be able to start week 1.
A second option is to draft a OLB with #23 (or move up) to get a guy you know will be a starter sooner then later. Let Woods or TBC start week 1, and if they blow it put the rookie in. That seems to be the Pats modus operandi with drafting players in the 15-30 range.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's the list of OLB. Some decent depth, but I cannot find 2 starters I would like to see week 1.

Thomas
Woods
TBC
Crable
Redd
Craig

The difficulty of bringing in someone like Taylor (older) or Peppers (never played OLB) is there are question marks just like the other depth currently on the team. If the Pats bring a OLB in that player should clearly be better then the current talent and be confident they be able to start week 1.
A second option is to draft a OLB with #23 (or move up) to get a guy you know will be a starter sooner then later. Let Woods or TBC start week 1, and if they blow it put the rookie in. That seems to be the Pats modus operandi with drafting players in the 15-30 range.

I think you're correct with your first statement. As things stand, Pierre Woods will probably start week 1 opposite Adalius Thomas (unless Shawn Crable shows a big jump from last year), and while he is adequate, he is not my ideal choice as a starter. There's good depth, but not a lot of starting quality.

I don't think BB will bring in anyone in FA who he is not convinced can make the transition and be a starter right away. If he believes Peppers, Taylor or whoever can do this, then he would be willing to make such a move if the terms were right.

I think you're speculation about a rookie is reasonable. I could easily see the Pats drafting someone like Barwin and phasing him in as a starter of the course of the season, with Woods starting day 1 and the rookie taking over more and more PT as the season progresses. That's usually the Pats' MO.

 

[elephant]

As soon as I heard Vrabel was included in the trade I started to wonder what BB had in store. BB is not stupid so he obviouslt has a plan to fill the OLB position vacated by Vrabel.

Why would BB get rid of Vrabel? There are really only three possibilities...
1) Perhaps BB feels Vrabel is over the hill and costs too much relative to his production. By including him in a trade we avoid dead money and can control where he ends up.
2) Perhaps BB is higher on the backups than most of us. He has stated how much he likes Wooods and I believe Peas has said Woods best asset is his pass rush ability.
3) Perhaps BB has a plan to fill Vrabel's vacancy from the outside.

Personally I think 1 & 2 must be true for BB to make the trade. I think this also explains the timing of the trade because if BB had waited on a trade, we would have needed to make a decision on Vrabel because he was due a bonus on March 1st.

But I also believe BB has plans for all the cap space and some of that cap space is reserved for filling the OLB spot. If he didn't have a plan that required a lot of cap space, why would he bother getting rid of Vrabel. With the cap space I assume BB will bring in a decent CB (Bodden perhaps), another WR or two (Curry, Furrey, Hackett, Galloway), a safety (maybe Jones or Sharper) and maybe even an ILB (Crowell, Harris, Barton). He'll also earmark some of it for resigning Wilfork, Mankins & Gostowski. But the interesting question is what does he have planned for the vacated OLB position?

Here are a few interesting (although perhaps far fetched) was of filling the OLB spot.
1) Trade for Peppers, Suggs or Dansby. All are studs and although Peppers would be switching positions, I think all would provide BB with a dynamic player to pair with Thomas at OLB. The big issue here is obvoiusly compensation, both in terms of the trade and the contract.
2) Sign a free agent. There isn't much in free agency other than Taylor. I think Taylor would be a great addition (imagine having Thomas & Taylor coming at you on 3rd down) if only for a year or two.
3) Trade for a non-free agent. These are always hard to speculate but let's start by looking at 3-4 teams with extra OLB's. The first that comes to mind is the NYJ with Pace, Thomas & Gholston. I know Gholston has been a bust thus far but most of us wanted the Pats to take him last year. Would you give up a second rounder (from KC or SD) for Gholston today? The other team that comes to mind is the Cowboys with Ware, Spencer and Ellis. None of these guys really excite me but they may be options.
4) Wait for the draft. With our first four picks we should have a crack at a few of the following players: Maybin, Brown, Mathews, Cushing, English, Barwin, Johnson, and Sintim.

I think 1 & 2 are much more likely but in the end I feel like Taylor may opt for TB (close to his family and he'll be playing for his Bates) and Peppers/Suggs will just be too expensive. I hope we can swing a trade for Peppers or Suggs that doesn't cost us two first rounders (or even a first and a second) but in the end I think we may have to count on Woods, TBC, Crable & a draft pick or two. Thoughts?

 

[tombonneau]

I'm not so sure that Colvin is dead & buried just yet. He looked decent enough coming in off his couch mid-season. With another offseason to heal, he might have 1 or 2 starting seasons left in him.

 

[patfanken]

Right. Have to agree, but I file this "weirdness" with my WTF stance on him being a toss-in on the Cassel trade.

Taylor has played the "OLB" for several years with the Dolphins over the years, it would not be as big an adjustment for him as you think.

Also he wouldn't cost as much on the Cap as Vrabel would have. As a pass rush/cover LB at his height, he'd be a great look coming from the other side of AThomas. Can you think of a time the Pats were able to restrict his rush one on one.?????

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I just wish there was a way that BB could communicate with the real fans, and still be able to keep his secrets from the media, and other teams. A secret Patriot society.

He tells me everything that happens (before and after).

I'm sworn to secrecy though...

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Jason Taylor is going ro be 35 when the season begins. Why would we bring him in and try to convert him to LB at the end of his career when we already had Vrabel who was 34 and already knows our system?

We don't have to convert him to LB because he has already played LB in the 3-4 and excelled there.

Also, why not just keep Vrabel you ask? Simple... Vrabel wasn't taking a huge paycut to remain a Patriot. He isn't going to be willing to play for cheap just to get a ring since he already has that. Taylor *may* be willing to play for cheap simply to get a ring.

That is why Taylor over just keeping Vrabel makes sense.

 

[Water Boy]

I expect to see us draft one or even two front seven defensive players early.

I see the trade of Vrabel as a similar situation to when the Pats did not resign Joe Andruzi. Like Vrabel, Andruzi was dependable, hard working, well liked, and his salary could have been easily afforded under the cap.

BB assessed and determined that the team needed to improve at Andruzi's position and identified a player who could upgrade the position. That year they drafted Mankins, a stud, pro bowl-caliber, guard who has started in place of Andruzi ever since.

I believe BB has identified an OLB prospect in this year's draft that he projects to excel in this system. Unlike Mankins, I don't think we can expect a rookie OLB (especially a converted DE) to start his rookie year, however, this player should get some meaningful reps.

 

[mbcoutinho]

I would like to get Clay Matthews...

 

[Seneschal2]

First off, Taylor has played OLB in the 3-4. There is no conversion necessary. Secondly, Taylor still looked good after he recovered from his injury last season.

Third, Vrabel probably cost more than Taylor will be to sign.

Correct.

...I think Taylor would be a great addition (imagine having Thomas & Taylor coming at you on 3rd down) if only for a year or two.

Right, "if only for a year or two." I wish everyone would accept that even old man Taylor is still a better pass rusher than AD or Woods. His presence would not only immediately improve the pass rush and force teams to gameplan around him, but would also buy time for either Crable, Redd, Craig, and the soon to be drafted rookie to develop for 2010.

Option (A) Taylor & Woods outside, AD & Mayo inside
Option (B) Taylor/AD, Mayo/?

Taylor would not only be the cheapest option among Peppers and Suggs, but also the wisest in terms of team chemistry. A mutual respect card exists both on and off the field between Taylor and some of the Pats players. And if he hasn't already, I'm sure Belichick will be having a face to face very soon...

 

[mgteich]

How much do you guys think Taylor would take on a 2-year contract?

 

[satz]

I understand the fear of playing woods but he has gone as much he can in rotation and limited play. He has to be put in and remember BB is not into charity.WHen AD went down woods started and the coach did not panic. only when bru and woods go down did we sign seau and colvin.
guyton stuggled and the next week we got seau in and woods did play 3 games and did enough not for a similar panic move.

so i want to put woods in their and rotate reed,crabel and rookie if show anything in the cam. we cannot develop OLB without playing anyone.

How does crabel get a free pass/spot when he was inactive on all the games before being IR`ed compared to woods who has a UDFA did more in his first year.

satz

 

[mgteich]

Crable doesn't get a free pass. I don't think many are counting on him for great things this year. For example, I think that Banta-Cain is ahead of Crable on the depth chart. As a developmental player, Crable does get one more year to prove himself.

How does crabel get a free pass/spot when he was inactive on all the games before being IR`ed compared to woods who has a UDFA did more in his first year.

satz

 

[WhiZa]

How much do you guys think Taylor would take on a 2-year contract?

8-10 million

 

[RobertWeathers]

As soon as I heard Vrabel was included in the trade I started to wonder what BB had in store. BB is not stupid so he obviouslt has a plan to fill the OLB position vacated by Vrabel.

Why would BB get rid of Vrabel? There are really only three possibilities...
1) Perhaps BB feels Vrabel is over the hill and costs too much relative to his production. By including him in a trade we avoid dead money and can control where he ends up.
2) Perhaps BB is higher on the backups than most of us. He has stated how much he likes Wooods and I believe Peas has said Woods best asset is his pass rush ability.
3) Perhaps BB has a plan to fill Vrabel's vacancy from the outside.

Personally I think 1 & 2 must be true for BB to make the trade. I think this also explains the timing of the trade because if BB had waited on a trade, we would have needed to make a decision on Vrabel because he was due a bonus on March 1st.

But I also believe BB has plans for all the cap space and some of that cap space is reserved for filling the OLB spot. If he didn't have a plan that required a lot of cap space, why would he bother getting rid of Vrabel. With the cap space I assume BB will bring in a decent CB (Bodden perhaps), another WR or two (Curry, Furrey, Hackett, Galloway), a safety (maybe Jones or Sharper) and maybe even an ILB (Crowell, Harris, Barton). He'll also earmark some of it for resigning Wilfork, Mankins & Gostowski. But the interesting question is what does he have planned for the vacated OLB position?

Here are a few interesting (although perhaps far fetched) was of filling the OLB spot.
1) Trade for Peppers, Suggs or Dansby. All are studs and although Peppers would be switching positions, I think all would provide BB with a dynamic player to pair with Thomas at OLB. The big issue here is obvoiusly compensation, both in terms of the trade and the contract.
2) Sign a free agent. There isn't much in free agency other than Taylor. I think Taylor would be a great addition (imagine having Thomas & Taylor coming at you on 3rd down) if only for a year or two.
3) Trade for a non-free agent. These are always hard to speculate but let's start by looking at 3-4 teams with extra OLB's. The first that comes to mind is the NYJ with Pace, Thomas & Gholston. I know Gholston has been a bust thus far but most of us wanted the Pats to take him last year. Would you give up a second rounder (from KC or SD) for Gholston today? The other team that comes to mind is the Cowboys with Ware, Spencer and Ellis. None of these guys really excite me but they may be options.
4) Wait for the draft. With our first four picks we should have a crack at a few of the following players: Maybin, Brown, Mathews, Cushing, English, Barwin, Johnson, and Sintim.

I think 1 & 2 are much more likely but in the end I feel like Taylor may opt for TB (close to his family and he'll be playing for his Bates) and Peppers/Suggs will just be too expensive. I hope we can swing a trade for Peppers or Suggs that doesn't cost us two first rounders (or even a first and a second) but in the end I think we may have to count on Woods, TBC, Crable & a draft pick or two. Thoughts?

Great summary until you said DeMarcus Ware doesn't excite you. The man is a menace to offenses.